another cable question

BKphoto
BKphoto Posts: 409
edited April 2014 in 2 Channel Audio
What do you guys think of coax cables with rca's attached...There is a guy on fleabay who makes them and has a good rep, says they work great....

what say you...?

Brent
Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited April 2014
    How many cable manufacturers offer those for sale? Zero? One? I think that gives a clue as to the benefit of putting RCA connectors on coax.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    thats why I'm asking...seemed odd...
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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  • 11tsteve
    11tsteve Posts: 1,166
    edited April 2014
    BlueFox wrote: »
    How many cable manufacturers offer those for sale? Zero? One? I think that gives a clue as to the benefit of putting RCA connectors on coax.
    Morrow, Audioquest VDM-1, Grover Huffman... Douglas cables... all have RCA. Am I misunderstanding the question?
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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    Is it a good choice for analog audio or no...?
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,287
    edited April 2014
    BlueFox wrote: »
    How many cable manufacturers offer those for sale? Zero? One? I think that gives a clue as to the benefit of putting RCA connectors on coax.

    Dynaudio Ocos speaker cables are a coaxial design

    http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/27046
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited April 2014
    11tsteve wrote: »
    Morrow, Audioquest VDM-1, Grover Huffman... Douglas cables... all have RCA. Am I misunderstanding the question?

    They use coax? The same cable as for cable TV?
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited April 2014
    Coax is a cable design not exclusive to TV cables. Center conductor with full outer shield carrying a signal. This is different than a pair of identical conductors carrying the signals in a paired design.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited April 2014
    BKphoto wrote: »
    What do you guys think of coax cables with rca's attached...

    The only coax with RCA's I've seen are sold as a LFE sub cable.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

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  • RamZet
    RamZet Posts: 792
    edited April 2014
    F1nut wrote: »
    The only coax with RCA's I've seen are sold as a LFE sub cable.

    I will only use this if I have no other option and the wires I ran (in-wall) for a sub are picking up a hum from romex.
    They are very well shielded, but not my ideal cable for anything.
    I would look at Interflex by Liberty. Its like a fancy RG59 for audio. http://www.libertycable.com/products/Liberty-Wire-and-Cable/INTERFLEX/Line-level-audio-non-rated-cable-for-interconnect-manufacture
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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    i was just bouncing around ebay and saw it...Sent him a quick email just to see if they are used for audio and he said yes...Again I thought it was odd, I'm not buying anything, just wondering...
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,899
    edited April 2014
    Blue Jeans audio cables are coax designs. The good thing about coax is that it is typically a solid core conductor which many believe is superior to stranded cable for unbalanced audio cables.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited April 2014
    75 ohm Coax can be used for IC duties.The stranded core Canare LS61 is a great digital cable but also functions well as an analog IC.
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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    dragon1952 wrote: »
    Blue Jeans audio cables are coax designs.

    I forgot about that, I've heard a lot of good things about those cables...
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,497
    edited April 2014
    BKphoto wrote: »
    What do you guys think of coax cables with rca's attached...There is a guy on fleabay who makes them and has a good rep, says they work great....

    what say you...?

    Brent

    They absolutely do work great. And yes, I have tried high end cables from big name makers. I used coax IC's for years until I went all balanced due to a diy DAC. Usually stranded center wire coax is used as they are more flexible than a solid center conductor.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited April 2014
    Good thread. I am learning something. I have never heard of coax (which in my mind is cable TV cable) being used for analog interconnects, which is how I interpreted the question. I do have a Blue Jeans custom coax cable with RCA on one end and BNC on the other, but it is a digital cable to connect my Wadia iTransport to a Benchmark DAC.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • 11tsteve
    11tsteve Posts: 1,166
    edited April 2014
    the Audioquest 75 ohm digital cables are a solid conductor, and I believe my Huffman digital IC is as well.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited April 2014
    Also, Chris Venhaus uses 75 Ohm coaxial cable that can be used for digital or analog IC's. I used this in my DAC andhave made a digital cable out of it. It is fantasic wire!

    Link: http://www.vhaudio.com/images/pulsar-ag-occ-silver.jpg
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    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited April 2014
    The Coax designed cable is used for many different applications. It has extremely high band width and can carry multiple different signals at one time.
    In todays market, customer Installers use this style cable for sending cable signal around ones home. With those cables in place we can also send network signals on top of the cable signal with a Balun device. So with one cable you can have cable service and network service at one location. Pretty damn badass.
    Years ago the coax cable was used for DSS signals from the Dish to the box. Over this same cable you can send a Roof Top Antenna signal on top of the DSS signal with a special 2 way splitter on both ends. It has a power pass for the DSS and a pass through for the Antenna feed. Both signals work perfectly over the one cable.
    Now for long Subwoofer runs in wall and what have you, the Coax cable is again used here. It has the ability to send the Subwoofer signal long lengths with excellent results.
    I have used both twisted pair and coax designed built subwoofer cables and I have never noticed a difference in equal quality cables.
    All Digital coax cables are designed out of Coax cable. When properly terminated , it meets spec of 75 ohms.
    All proper analog video cables are coax design.
    Full bandwidth analog pass is not ideal over a Coax designed cable as it's resistance is higher then spec. Coax is 75 ohms and analog spec is between 44 and 50 ohms depending on who you talk to. This is a very gray area where no one agrees on what the exact proper unbalanced spec is. I have tried for years to learn what this is and I always get different answers.

    Now personally I have used coax designed cables with excellent success. The higher ohm resistance doesn't seem to effect performance volume or anything I have noticed. But most cable companies use twisted pair design mostly for analog transmission. But some of those same companies will use a custom built coax design cable for analog as well.
    Audioquest has a custom ITA line which uses a Coax design. It has a solid core conductor but the negative or shield is different. It's made out of solid core conductors instead of the coax braid. They do however use the braid on the custom built video cables which I have tested for audio and didn't notice any performance loss or gain or that matter.

    I think why over the decades of cable threads go south it due to the fact there is to many opinions on how to get these signals from A to B properly. You ask 10 different companies the right questions and 10 different answers you will get. I know this from professional experience as I tried to unravel the truth behind cable design and getting the job done.
    One thing I did find that seems to hold true to most companies is this.
    1) Quality of metal effects the transmission of a signal.
    2) Dielectrics effect proper signal pass.
    3) Geometry of the conductors effect signal pass.
    4) Properly terminated cables effect the signal pass.
    So basically breaking it down to the bare essentials no matter who what or why a cable is designed for a purpose , that cable needs to be able to pass the signal from the source to the end point unaltered. All cables add distortion of some kind as they have to be in place to carry the signal. The real goal to minimize this loss and not pick anything up along the way.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 570
    edited April 2014
    Lots of coax is copper clad steel. Steel sucks for audio.

    Be careful thinking you can pick up just any coax and believing you're going to make diamonds from ordinary rocks.

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."

    More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping."
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited April 2014
    CoolJazz wrote: »
    Lots of coax is copper clad steel. Steel sucks for audio.

    Be careful thinking you can pick up just any coax and believing you're going to make diamonds from ordinary rocks.

    CJ

    Amen to that...not all coax cable is created equal.
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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    RG6 is a good coax....

    correct...?
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited April 2014
    Coax comes in many flavors. Here' same short story.

    http://www.belden.com/blog/broadcastav/50-Ohms-The-Forgotten-Impedance.cfm
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,287
    edited April 2014
    BKphoto wrote: »
    RG6 is a good coax....

    correct...?

    Not to say what good or not good, but I will say as Tony has said not all coax is created equal. I install CCTV for a living and there is a lot of sub par coax. Many manufacturers don't use all copper or the braid is of cheap copper.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Not to say what good or not good, but I will say as Tony has said not all coax is created equal. I install CCTV for a living and there is a lot of sub par coax. Many manufacturers don't use all copper or the braid is of cheap copper.

    I see, Yeah that stuff is copper "clad"... not interested....but I definitely learned something today....since I'm stuck here with 2 sick kids...
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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