Kimmel Center In Phila Pa
mantis
Posts: 17,209
Whats up all?
I just got back from the Kimmel Center. We saw The Philly POPS The Magical Music of John Williams. This was played to perfection. The quality of the reproduction was incredible. The sound was absolutely amazing. I sat their song after song in amazement.
After the Show I came home to judge my system playing the same songs they played. I wondered how close my system could come to the live performance , quality, detail, perfection. I gotta admit my system lacks in so many ways. It doesn't have the depth that I heard live, it jumbles many of the tones together as you can't hear every single detail as I was able to hear sitting their in the Audience. Recreating a live performance of this detail is extremely hard to do. I can't even kid myself , my system can't recreate it. I had the master himself John Williams playing his tunes and it just failed in comparison. I was actually surprised my system can't even come close to it.
I would have to completely rethink my entire system. I would have to do as many in here already do and build a dedicated 2 channel system. I would have to go even further and build a room that wasn't sonically challenged as mine is.
It's funny how you can sit down and be so proud of the sound you built , then go see a live performance and then come back home just to discover how far away you really are.
I know it's completely unfair as the Kimmel Center is completely designed acoustically to allow who plays their to sound their best. The Acoustics are so damn good. I could hear things coming from all around me as if I was sitting on stage with them. It kinda reminded me of the very first time I heard SACD with all the sounds coming from around the room. The Hall really gets you involved in the performance.
They played Star Wars after the Intermission and it sounded perfect. Better then I have ever heard it in a theater or at home. Amazing how detailed that song is. Duel of fates almost broke a tear when they started playing it. The Quire almost sounded exactly how the recording sounds. In many ways it was way better. It was truly amazing how detailed the vocals where , how good they performed that song.
At the very end they played Indiana Jones , that was really cool, it sounded exact.
So I strongly suggest not listening to your system right after an amazing performance. You just might be as disappointed as I am and I got a pretty good system.
I just got back from the Kimmel Center. We saw The Philly POPS The Magical Music of John Williams. This was played to perfection. The quality of the reproduction was incredible. The sound was absolutely amazing. I sat their song after song in amazement.
After the Show I came home to judge my system playing the same songs they played. I wondered how close my system could come to the live performance , quality, detail, perfection. I gotta admit my system lacks in so many ways. It doesn't have the depth that I heard live, it jumbles many of the tones together as you can't hear every single detail as I was able to hear sitting their in the Audience. Recreating a live performance of this detail is extremely hard to do. I can't even kid myself , my system can't recreate it. I had the master himself John Williams playing his tunes and it just failed in comparison. I was actually surprised my system can't even come close to it.
I would have to completely rethink my entire system. I would have to do as many in here already do and build a dedicated 2 channel system. I would have to go even further and build a room that wasn't sonically challenged as mine is.
It's funny how you can sit down and be so proud of the sound you built , then go see a live performance and then come back home just to discover how far away you really are.
I know it's completely unfair as the Kimmel Center is completely designed acoustically to allow who plays their to sound their best. The Acoustics are so damn good. I could hear things coming from all around me as if I was sitting on stage with them. It kinda reminded me of the very first time I heard SACD with all the sounds coming from around the room. The Hall really gets you involved in the performance.
They played Star Wars after the Intermission and it sounded perfect. Better then I have ever heard it in a theater or at home. Amazing how detailed that song is. Duel of fates almost broke a tear when they started playing it. The Quire almost sounded exactly how the recording sounds. In many ways it was way better. It was truly amazing how detailed the vocals where , how good they performed that song.
At the very end they played Indiana Jones , that was really cool, it sounded exact.
So I strongly suggest not listening to your system right after an amazing performance. You just might be as disappointed as I am and I got a pretty good system.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Post edited by mantis on
Comments
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It's so great to see a good show but very hard to recreate it at home.I have often wondered if using some of the "pro" equipment used at the venues to build a 2 channel system would yield a more life like reproduction of the live sound ...least ya got out and saw a great show ..... cheers
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Congrats. I believe you have learned something important, and are maybe now on the right road.
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Horns and violins are among the most difficult instruments to get right on a home system. I've often felt that I was close with mine, only to hear a live big band and realize I still have a ways to go. Still, the home system sounds awfully good, and that comparison is perhaps only an exercise in frustration. Don't think I'll have the bucks to get a whole lot closer."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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I've certainly experienced what Dan is talking about. But I've also experienced the opposite, many times. In other words, symphonic concert halls and orchestras where the music does NOT sound as detailed and overly analytic as it does on the so-called "most expensive systems in the world" where you can hear a pin drop. Which you can't hear in a REAL concert hall because it's not miked by twenty year recording engineer veterans in a SOUND PROOF BOOTH with recording equipment that exceeds the range of human hearing! lol
Most live music is NOT super detailed. It's just not! That's NOT it's most important "quality".. And those who are looking for that are not really experiencing "live" conditions but "artificial" ones. Unreal ones(in most instances).
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
When you are away from live performances , you can easily forget how good that experience is.George Grand wrote: »Congrats. I believe you have learned something important, and are maybe now on the right road.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I had this house built with the intention of building a theater room in the basement. I even spent the extra cash to have it raised from 8 feet to 9. I planed on 2 or 3 rows of seating and had a pretty amazing plan. Well each year I lived here ( now 11 years ) something always blocks my ability to save up the cash to finally build my dream.drumminman wrote: »Horns and violins are among the most difficult instruments to get right on a home system. I've often felt that I was close with mine, only to hear a live big band and realize I still have a ways to go. Still, the home system sounds awfully good, and that comparison is perhaps only an exercise in frustration. Don't think I'll have the bucks to get a whole lot closer.
So for the last 11 years I try and try to get my family room to perform the way I know the gear I buy can, but in the end my room always sucks the life out of all my systems and I never achieve the level of perfection I lust after. I actually gave up on my dreams and purchased receivers and kinda down grated my system to more of just a surround system that still sounds great playing music.
I know no matter what I bring home , i'll never achieve my goal until I get my basement finished.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I hear yeah , some venues are not as good as others. What I experienced yesterday was probably the best sounding concert I ever been to. I've been to Diana Krall's concert a few years ago and that was amazingly clear detailed and wide. but this hall was so acoustically perfect , I could hear every single string , chime , drum , horn etc to perfection. It was simply amazing.I've certainly experienced what Dan is talking about. But I've also experienced the opposite, many times. In other words, symphonic concert halls and orchestras where the music does NOT sound as detailed and overly analytic as it does on the so-called "most expensive systems in the world" where you can hear a pin drop. Which you can't hear in a REAL concert hall because it's not miked by twenty year recording engineer veterans in a SOUND PROOF BOOTH with recording equipment that exceeds the range of human hearing! lol
Most live music is NOT super detailed. It's just not! That's NOT it's most important "quality".. And those who are looking for that are not really experiencing "live" conditions but "artificial" ones. Unreal ones(in most instances).
cnh
What I think really set it apart was the volume , it was probably around 80-85db at best. you could easily talk to the person next to you if you wished or had to. The Crowd was also amazing , you could hear a pin drop as no one talked or made any noise when they where performing.
I know it's possible to get really close to that level of perfection , it just starts with the room.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
A set of Magnepan MG-20's (or better yet Tympani MkIV"s) properly set up with room treatments and some high powered tube amps will get you pretty damn close.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
It wasn't just the recreation I was missing, I literally can't hear all the instruments that make up the song. It's incredibly amazing how much more you can hear when you hear what actually is. I'm sorry for this but it's been a few years since I went to a live performance especially of that magnitude.I'm surprised you were surprised your system couldn't recreate it. It takes a lot for a system to recreate something like that, and I'm not just talking about the components. Room, treatments, positioning, everything matters. You won't get an experience like that in any room of most homes.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Maggies are pretty special speakers especially when setup correctly. aside from the way they look , they are damn remarkable.nooshinjohn wrote: »A set of Magnepan MG-20's (or better yet Tympani MkIV"s) properly set up with room treatments and some high powered tube amps will get you pretty damn close.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I made this same comparison this past fall after seeing the Allman Brothers Live at Verizon Amphitheater in Atlanta. Granted this was an outdoor venue, but we were in row 10, right-center stage in the enclosed portion. I actually had the exact opposite experience and was shocked how much my ZUs being powered by a Rogue tube amp while playing vinyl sounded like the real thing. I even remarked to my buddy sounding next to me who's heard my system many times (and is a former professional installer himself) "dude this sounds just like my system." He agreed. I'm not saying this to be Biilly Bad **** or anything like that as much as just crediting how much the ZUs sound like live music. I think the cohesiveness of the single driver has a lot to do with this. The biggest comment I get from folks who hear the system playing through the ZUs is "man it sounds like the band is really playing there in front of you." They are not the smoothest or most detailed speakers in the world, but they exude an energy, cohesiveness, and dimensionality that can make them sound remarkably life-like at times.
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I can say from a listening session at dawgs last week that he is not exaggerating.
While listening to a live recording of "Preservation Hall Jazz Band", an album called. "Thats it"
I turned to steve and said it was just like sitting in front of the bandbox.
The zu speaks were very realistic, although his sda crs,s acquitted themselves nicely, especially considering their age.humpty dumpty was pushed -
The Kimmel Center is finally a great place to hear music, it was interesting to read the reviews of performances there after it opened and the gradual adjustments to make it sound right - including the installation of the organ. The KC might not sound - or look like the Academy of Music but it's great to have "new" and "old" side by side in the city.
