Internal vibrations of the capacitors...

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited April 2014
    Hello,
    I'm afraid I don't have the definitive answer for you, I've not had any experience with either brand. For most critical listening I have found the V-Cap to suit my taste. The only guess I could make would be whatever winding technique one company uses could be more effective in damping out the vibrations.
    The Elna company talks about vibration damping in their SILMIC series capacitors, which I find sound very good.

    "At Elna, we have moved forward with development activities based on the perspective that this "softness" of silk can mitigate vibrational energy, which is generated from the electrodes in the capacitor. Also, this silk softness will mitigate the vibrational energy of the music propagating through the air and striking the capacitor."

    I know of speaker designers who use oil filled motor running capacitors in their crossovers due to the very rigid metal frames they have and the relatively large container of oil that houses them. Granted they are large to use, but if size were not an issue they can be quite nice.
    Cheers, Ken
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  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,806
    edited April 2014
    I once drove my mom crazy by hooking up an RC car motor to an old beater stereo through the speaker wires and left it on the dresser...she was going nuts trying to find out where the sound was coming from. :smile: You could easily make out the song but needless to say at a lower volume.
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  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited April 2014
    F1nut wrote: »
    What caps have YOU tried?

    When I built an active crossover, I used some excellent electrocube metalized polycarbonate capacitors that I had stashed away.
    But now they made out of unobtainium.
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  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited April 2014
    halo71 wrote: »
    Are you being sarcastic or do you really believe that? Just asking...

    Yes I really believe that.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2014
    Aroundthesuond wrote: »
    thank you very much for your reply, kenneth,
    I would like to understand why the CC MR are more microphonic/piezoelectric than mundorf silver/oil
    should be less than the others, but isn't so, why, from your point of view ?
    CC has done an extensive research on internal vibrations of caps...
    In the non-damped capacitor, it's possible the windings are absorbing the vibrations.

    Swapping out one for the other and listening through speakers, the spatial differences are immediately apparent.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Aroundthesuond
    Aroundthesuond Posts: 37
    edited April 2014
    Face wrote: »
    In the non-damped capacitor, it's possible the windings are absorbing the vibrations.

    Swapping out one for the other and listening through speakers, the spatial differences are immediately apparent.
    Are CC MR non damped caps ?
    I ask this question because at high volumes CC MR seems resonate more than Mundorf s/o : if approach the ear on the cap i can hear that it reproduces the song
    this is what I want to understand
    why, about you point of view ?
    --> I replaced the speaker load with a resistor in breakin caps, so can hear everything that comes from the cap
    from CC MR comes out more than S/O

    another question: non-damped capacitor has less spatial informations ?
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2014
    CC MR and ESA are damped.

    More or less noise from the cap itself, how does this correlate to overall sound quality?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 570
    edited April 2014
    I think all caps have some level of microphonic problem. You can listen to them all with a stethoscope. Winding technique and materials play into the difference of course. How much noise can enter is also effected by those materials. This exact problem is probably a big part of why all caps have some differences in sonic qualities. Even if some don't know this and just make fun of it.

    I've several times seen caps with enough microphonic problems that noise in the room would get right into the audio. I've rapped my knuckles on a rack with mounted equipment and could hear it. I've also identified cooling fans getting into audio. I've even personal heard banging on an exterior door loudly, getting into audio. Often, manufacturers will use a dampening compound around problem areas trying to do an after the fact fix of a problem.

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."

    More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping."
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  • Aroundthesuond
    Aroundthesuond Posts: 37
    edited April 2014
    Face wrote: »
    CC MR and ESA are damped.
    is s/o damped ?
    the windings of CC MR are damped then do not absorb internal vibrations and "sing" more than s/o ?
    is this right ?
    Face wrote: »
    More or less noise from the cap itself, how does this correlate to overall sound quality?
    i don't know
    greater spatial information for damped caps ?
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  • BKphoto
    BKphoto Posts: 409
    edited April 2014
    Face wrote: »

    listening through speakers,

    i get music through my speakers...Is this supposed to happen...?
    Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's
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