Pioneer SC-75 v SC-77

EndersShadow

So I am looking to move to a new AVR and go with a integrated one so I can sell my 5 channel Carver & interconnects and simplify everything. I am pretty well locked in on the Pioneer SC-75 or SC-77. While I like the 68 & 79, they are simply out of my price range and in this instance I am going to buy new from a authorized dealer to ensure I get a full warranty as the warranty on my Integra has saved my bacon 3 times so far.

In looking at the datasheets for each model the differences between the two are below. Here is where I need some help from you guys. Do you think any of those are something I should take into serious consideration in choosing one over the other? I am 90% sure my room is larger than 2000 square feet, but I also dont know if that point alone is worth the increase in cost between the two units. Also if needed I can keep my Carver M1.0t for my LSi 15's to give the system more umph, but would prefer to move that upstairs if possible. Keep in mind there is a decent price gap between these two units (~400 dollars).

I am most curious about the Full Band Phase Control/Auto Phase Control Plus & the Transformer differences.

Amplification

77 = 810 W Multi channel Simultaneous Drive (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %) SC-75 = 760
240 wpc @ 4 ohm 2 channels driven (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven) SC-75 = 220 wpc @ 4 ohm 2 channels driven

Construction Design

3D Space Frame Construction
Low Leakage Flux Power Transformer

Audio Features

AIR Studio Monitor Certification
SC-77 = THX Ultra2 Plus Certified SC-75 = THX Select2 Plus Certified

THX Ultra2 Certified products bring the cinematic experience to larger home theaters, 3,000 cubic feet in size, with a viewing distance of 12 feet or greater from the screen.
THX Select2 Certified products are for medium sized rooms, up to 2,000 cubic feet in size, with a 10-12 foot viewing distance from the screen.

DSD Direct Playback via USB Memory Devices (5.6 MHz, 2.8 MHz)
Full Band Phase Control/Auto Phase Control Plus

During multichannel playback, LFE (Low-Frequency Effects) signals as well as low-frequency signals in each channel are assigned to the subwoofer or other the subwoofer and the most appropriate speaker. At least in theory, however, this type of processing involves a group delay that varies with frequency, resulting in phase distortion where the low-frequency sound is delayed or muffled by the conflict with other channels. With the Phase Control mode switched on, this receiver can reproduce powerful bass sound without deteriorating the quality of the original sound (see illustration below)...

The Full Band Phase Control feature calibrates the frequency-phase characteristics of the speakers connected. Standard speakers designed exclusively for audio use generally reproduce sound with the divided frequency bands output from a speaker system consisting of multiple speakers (in case of typical 3-way speakers, for instance, the tweeter, the squawker (midrange), and the woofer output sound in the high-, middle-, and low frequency ranges, respectively). Though these speakers are designed to flatten the frequency-amplitude characteristics across wide ranges, there are cases where the group delay characteristics are not effectively
flattened.

This phase distortion of the speakers subsequently causes group delay (the delay of low frequency sound against high-frequency sound) during audio signal playback. This receiver analyzes the frequency-phase characteristics of the speakers by calibrating test signals output from the speakers with the supplied microphone, therefore flattening the analyzed frequency-phase characteristics during audio signal playback1 - the same correction is made for a pair of left and right speakers.

This correction minimizes group delay between the ranges of a speaker and improves the frequency-phase characteristics across all ranges. Furthermore, the enhanced frequency-phase characteristics between channels ensure better surround sound integration for multichannel setting.

Speaker System 11 Patterns

Any help here MUCH MUCH MUCH appreciated.

Conradicles

Your room is larger than 2000 square feet?

EndersShadow

Conradicles wrote: »

Your room is larger than 2000 square feet?

cubic square feet = L x W x H.

Thorton

Find an authorized dealer that will give you a significant discount and buy the big boy.

EndersShadow

Room is 16 x 18 x 8 for 2300 cubic square feet but it opens to the kitchen behind it which knocks it up to 3k or more easy.

WLDock

IMO, spec wise those unit are very close. Yeah, one has the higher certification...but all of the higher end Pioneer D Class units deliver the goods in terms of power from an AVR. Both the SC-05 and SC-25 I had were very capable and were amazing in how cool they ran. With these newer units you are talking 220 watts a channel vs. 240 watts @ 4 Ohms as both have the SABRE32 DAC. So it comes down to rather you want to spend the extra $300.

Then, there is the thought that the new units will be announced at the end of Summer and will probably have Subwoofer EQ. Of course the Elite models will go on clearance at some point but the non Elite SC-1523-K is already going down a little. It was just on sale on amazon for $850. That unit is pretty much the same as the SC-75 with 1 year less warranty. The SC-75 is $1099 on amazon. At $850 for the 1523 that is about $550 less than the SC-77 on Amazon for $1395. Wait until it goes down to $700-750 now you are talking about $600+ less...or enough to pick it up as well as an Oppo 103D or something for the cost of the SC-75. Could pick up a square trade warranty if the extra year bugs you. IMO, more for your money...

EndersShadow

WLDock wrote: »

IMO, spec wise those unit are very close. Yeah, one has the higher certification...but all of the higher end Pioneer D Class units deliver the goods in terms of power from an AVR. Both the SC-05 and SC-25 I had were very capable and were amazing in how cool they ran. With these newer units you are talking 220 watts a channel vs. 240 watts @ 4 Ohms as both have the SABRE32 DAC. So it comes down to rather you want to spend the extra $300.

Then, there is the thought that the new units will be announced at the end of Summer and will probably have Subwoofer EQ. Of course the Elite models will go on clearance at some point but the non Elite SC-1523-K is already going down a little. It was just on sale on amazon for $850. That unit is pretty much the same as the SC-75 with 1 year less warranty. The SC-75 is $1099 on amazon. At $850 for the 1523 that is about $550 less than the SC-77 on Amazon for $1395. Wait until it goes down to $700-750 now you are talking about $600+ less...or enough to pick it up as well as an Oppo 103D or something for the cost of the SC-75. Could pick up a square trade warranty if the extra year bugs you. IMO, more for your money...

Yeah, the 1523 looks nice and is priced decently. The warranty does bother me a bit, but I am also trying to keep this as cheap as possible by offsetting the cost by selling other things. As such, I am also now in deep consideration of the Onkyo 818. I have to keep my amps but I can get the 818 for 600 on A4L and I get XT32 which is a MAJOR step up from what I have now, and it will also EQ's the sub (but wont work well with 2 diff subs) and save a couple hundred.

I only get a 1 year warranty, but I will probably add a square trade warranty on top of that just in case.

tonyb

Just a reminder Mr. new house owner....spring is around the corner and grass seed/fertilizer/flowers/mulch aren't cheap. Your wife is probably giving your audio budget the evil eye as we speak.lol

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

Just a reminder Mr. new house owner....spring is around the corner and grass seed/fertilizer/flowers/mulch aren't cheap. Your wife is probably giving your audio budget the evil eye as we speak.lol

Yeah I know, but TBH, I have sold enough crap and given the money to her for her stuff that its time to treat myself. I am also selling off some stuff to cover the funds for this so it should be a close to net 0 cost.

txcoastal1

tonyb wrote: »

Just a reminder Mr. new house owner....spring is around the corner and grass seed/fertilizer/flowers/mulch aren't cheap. Your wife is probably giving your audio budget the evil eye as we speak.lol

Also keep in mind, us boys need a new toy in a new home...that's my moto

WLDock

EndersShadow wrote: »

... As such, I am also now in deep consideration of the Onkyo 818. I have to keep my amps but I can get the 818 for 600 on A4L and I get XT32 which is a MAJOR step up from what I have now, and it will also EQ's the sub (but wont work well with 2 diff subs) and save a couple hundred.

Yeah, the 818 is a great buy at $600. I'm looking to try one myself. Was looking at the TX-NR929 and Denon AVR-X4000 also...but not sure I need the extra features of those two....also, I won't be running two subs anytime soon.

Zentish

Strange that the 818 has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 but the 828 doesn't - thought this was a mistake somewhere. grrrr

WLDock

Nope, the $200 more M.S.R.P. TX-NR929($1399) took over the role. www.accessories4less.com has $777.77 refurbs.

WLDock

Here is a nice deal: A previous gen $2899 MSRP TX-NR5009, New old stock damaged box for $899.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONKYO-USA-CORPORATION-TX-NR5009-9-2-Channel-NETWORK-A-V-RECEIVER-NEW-/261440504648?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3cdf118348

-145 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD, with 2 channels driven
-one toroidal and three independent power transformers for clean, dynamic sound
-THX Ultra2 Plus certification
- Audyssey XT32, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume
-six 192kHz/32-bit Burr-Brown
- 1080p video upconversion with HQV® Vida™ and Qdeo™ circuitry
- 55.1 lbs.

What a BRUTE!

EndersShadow

WLDock wrote: »

Here is a nice deal: A previous gen $2899 MSRP TX-NR5009, New old stock damaged box for $899.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONKYO-USA-CORPORATION-TX-NR5009-9-2-Channel-NETWORK-A-V-RECEIVER-NEW-/261440504648?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3cdf118348

-145 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD, with 2 channels driven
-one toroidal and three independent power transformers for clean, dynamic sound
-THX Ultra2 Plus certification
- Audyssey XT32, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume
-six 192kHz/32-bit Burr-Brown
- 1080p video upconversion with HQV® Vida™ and Qdeo™ circuitry
- 55.1 lbs.

What a BRUTE!

True, but the Onkyo's lack the power to handle the LSi series. The 818 is still a better option if not going with a SC model as I can basically just ignore the amp section in it and look at the pure feature set.

WLDock

Yeah, not really the best for 4 Ohms. However, I'm sure the 5009 could drive 4 ohms but man would it make some serious heat! Nevertheless, it sure is getting the job done at 8 Ohms...besting the SC-68 in power and freq response:

TX-NR3010 measurements
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr3010-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

SC-68 measurements
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-68-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Not a huge difference but it shows that the top Onkyo units are the real deal AVR's...and how stout the SC units are. Too bad you could not find a deal on a PR-SC5508 pre? I saw a couple of used ones for $700, $875 a little while back. The 818 is still a deal...even if just using as a Pre.

EndersShadow

WLDock wrote: »

Yeah, not really the best for 4 Ohms. However, I'm sure the 5009 could drive 4 ohms but man would it make some serious heat! Nevertheless, it sure is getting the job done at 8 Ohms...besting the SC-68 in power and freq response:

TX-NR3010 measurements
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr3010-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

SC-68 measurements
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-68-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Not a huge difference but it shows that the top Onkyo units are the real deal AVR's...and how stout the SC units are. Too bad you could not find a deal on a PR-SC5508 pre? I saw a couple of used ones for $700, $875 a little while back. The 818 is still a deal...even if just using as a Pre.

True, but I think I will just wait till I can get a SC model. I really want to move away from separates in my HT and just move back to "simple".

WLDock

Well, if you are in no hurry, wait until the new ones are announced. Maybe something will interesting you...or maybe the right deal will come along on a current model.

mantis

If I had to choose between the 2, I'd go with the SC-77. Go for it, your gonna own it for years to come, don't regret it later.

WLDock

Yeah, either way if you go Elite you could always add a MiniDSP and have all you need. Would be something fun to play with....and they keep adding cool stuff.

ibewbrother

when i bought my 57 I had the same thoughts.....it was a $200 difference at the time between the SC-57 (flagship) and the SC-55.
Go ahead and get the baddest......It is worth the money just to be able to say that......I Have The Baddest........my opinion only....yours may vary

Sherardp

I have the 77 in my new HT and it performs very well. It should fit your application and suit your needs. My room is 21x19.