I know what I want; You guys know better!! Next upgrade...

Sweets10v8

So I've been into the HT thing for 5 months, trying to learn and read as much as I can. Last time I was 95% sure what I thought was my next best move! and I was overwhelmingly corrected. I followed everyone's suggestion to to upgrade my sub next, and wow it's made a big impact, thanks again.

I'm again pretty sure what I want to do with my $400 budget for my next upgrade for my 100% HT rig....
(Copy/pasting my sig for future references;)

My setup;
AVR: Onkyo 818
Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
Fronts: RTi 8s
Center: CS2
Surrounds: FXi 30s
Rears: Monitor 50s

1. Add used Emotiva XPA-3 amp for my front soundstage, actual 200w/ch (what I'm 90% leaning towards)
2. Sell CS2, buy CSI5, and then (fill in blank)
3. Add 2nd SVS 25-31 sub
4. Sell SVS 25-31 PCi, buy SVS pb12 ultra/2

cnh

Agreed, get the center and think about a Parasound amp--you have to be careful with Rtis as they are fairly bright so you need to consider what amps would warm that up some.

I have some Rti-A3s, a Csi-3 and older Polk sub that I run in a 3.1 in my basement room (probably move the Rti-4s from the bedroom down there eventually for 5.1). I've never been satisfied with the A-3s in the stereo mode...too bright, a little thin and bass shy as well, so I'm considering throwing a NAD on them and see what that does?

cnh

disneyjoe7

Oh Yea a large center and a clean amp.... OMG Nice!

Sweets10v8

DSkip wrote: »

Csi5 would be tops on my list. I'd recommend looking elsewhere for an amp based on the sonic signature of both Emotiva and the rti series.

See, I have no idea what sonic signature is...haha. I'm not used to asking and starting threads in forums, thanks for helping me out while I learn.

How much are these warmer/ cleaner amps? I'll start looking up parasound, who else should I consider?

rooftop59

Parasound, nad, rotel are all amps that lean towards the warmer end of the spectrum. Your RTis are pretty bright, so amps like emotiva or adcom (although many would say overall a vintage adcom is a better choice) are not good to pair with Rti. With Rti8s you could get a Parasound HCA 1000 or 1200 and be fine...

mantis

I also suggest getting the CSi5 Center channel. As far as adding an amp, I would sell the Onkyo 818 receiver and get into a higher end Pioneer Elite SC model. This way you would warm up your overall sound and add more power in the D3 amps. If you go used with an Elite SC model, the older models use Bang & Olufsen Amps which are still very good. They are also a Digital amp which uses less energy and provide more power. They also run much cooler then the standard A-B Designs of years past.

For your system if you go new I suggest eh SC-75. If you go used , I'd look at the SC-65, SC-55. With your budget and the sale of your Onkyo and CS2, I think you can score a nice upgrade here.

As far as running 2 subs? Yeah I find a better smoother in room response when using 2 subs over 1. 1 sub can be difficult to get right to satisfy multiple seating locations. With 2 subs you can really cover a room well. Running 2 subs IMO isn't for more volume or sheer impact, it's for better coverage. I strongly suggest using 2 of the same exact subs so one doesn't outperform the other. I have tried 2 different subs in setups and found that running the exact subs always works better.

steveinaz

I WOULDN'T do 3 or 4. The rest of your system has alot of catching up to do before your SVS's need tweaking.

ViperZ

Center first, then an amp. You're a looong way away from upgrading that great subs.

Sweets10v8

So with my $400 budgeted, looks like its a CSi5, sell CS2. Looks like CSi5s are going for $150 to $200ish right now used.

Then save and research an amp......

Loud & Clear

CSi5. Then the matching SVS.

Sweets10v8

Adding a decent amp, am I going to notice a decent difference with my setup? I'm slightly worried I'm going to spend $400+ on an amp and not get a noticeable change, as I've never heard back to back non amped to amped speakers. I like to watch my movies at 70-75 volume setting on my AVR. From what I read I'd benefit in clarity, help keep my speakers and AVR alive longer as well.

My $350 sub BLEW me away, the RTi8 and FXis were noticeable too (part of that also may be moving Monitor 50s to rear and going to 7.1). That's why I'm wondering....

Found a ROTEL RMB-1095 for $525, but I've read they hum or buzz, and it's more than I have to spend now

Geoff4rfc

There's a couple of things going on here. First off, I'm in the camp of "upgrade the center"

You'll be able to complete your front stage from a timbre mismatch to seamless.

Second, I think by your posts, you're looking for some votes on the amp because, that's what you really want.

Here's my take, you can ask for help or advice, but it's not steering you in the direction you want to go, then let go of everything and follow your gut.

Let's take a look at the amp, will it benefit your set up?? Sure! Since you have a sub, your speakers should be set to small so there's not a lot of power requirement there, but if you like to crank it, then the extra power will come in handy.

If you like 2ch, and I hear those i8's are awesome for that, then having some power behind them for 2ch would also be of some benefit, esp if you don't use your sub.

So, time to stand on it son, hit the gas and go for the win!!

Sweets10v8

I'm past csi5, I'm doing that for sure first.. Just finding one is what I'm doing now, while trying to educate myself on amps.

Seems the overwhelming idea after that is an amp, it's just not cut and dry to me yet with all the requirements and all the information to take in. I'd love to be able to try out an amp to get a feel for what's next.

So can you bi-amp the RTI 8s with 200w per post or is that total the speaker can handle?

jeremymarcinko

Bi-amping with your AVR is a gimmick and will not give you any more power, as the amps draw on the same power supply within the AVR. To benefit from Biamping you need two separate amps.

Your 818 is a very good receiver, no reason to upgrade that right away. I agree Csi5, then power amp, a stereo amp would take a large load off of your Onkyo which would in turn allow the center and surrounds sound much better. You can certainly find a decent used stereo amp within your budget. However, a multichannel would be "best" for home theater, either would provide a noticeable improvement.

F1nut

So can you bi-amp the RTI 8s with 200w per post or is that total the speaker can handle?

Forget bi-amping.

Sweets10v8

Bi amp with the pre amp channels, not receiver... I know that the receiver won't do anything.

Although my heart really wants the SVS PB12 ultra/2. I've seen it, it's a 190lb tank! But I'm listening to everyone else's expertise....

F1nut

Do some research on what bi-amping really is because it's not what you think.

tonyb

Sweets10v8 wrote: »

So can you bi-amp the RTI 8s with 200w per post or is that total the speaker can handle?

Don't pay attention to those recommended wattage numbers. All you need is clean high current from a single channel of amplification. Bi-amping is another animal.....and has nothing to do with a receiver.

Sweets10v8

Bi amping was a simple question if I used two channels on an amp, not avr. Say I get 5 channel, run two to each of the fronts, and one to the center, let avr power the surrounds... But never mind, it's thrown off the thread, thought I could get a simple yes or no. I'm not worried about it, was just trying to learn if that's how it works....

Sweets10v8

The secondary benefit from amp, after the CSI5, is the ability to properly power 4 ohm speakers down the road if I ever decide to upgrade to LSi series, or whatever I come up with.

Sweets10v8

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Your 818 is a very good receiver, no reason to upgrade that right away. I agree Csi5, then power amp, a stereo amp would take a large load off of your Onkyo which would in turn allow the center and surrounds sound much better. You can certainly find a decent used stereo amp within your budget. However, a multichannel would be "best" for home theater, either would provide a noticeable improvement.

actually can't upgrade the 818, promised my wife I would keep it for a few years. It's the only thing I've bought new.

DSkip wrote: »

Don't upgrade to LSi's for a HT build. Deal with an amp AFTER you upgrade to new speakers - your speaker SHOULD influence your amp choice. For example, my monoblocks don't work on many speakers, but sound superb on my 6311's. I wouldn't have bought them if I didn't know before hand that my speakers could do well off low-powered tube amps.

thanks, appreciate it. So what do you think of the rotel rmb-1025 I saw for $525? Assuming my setup except with csi5?


Edit: also see a rotel rmb-985 for $350

tonyb

Sweets10v8 wrote: »

Bi amping was a simple question if I used two channels on an amp, not avr. Say I get 5 channel, run two to each of the fronts, and one to the center, let avr power the surrounds... But never mind, it's thrown off the thread, thought I could get a simple yes or no. I'm not worried about it, was just trying to learn if that's how it works....

Simple answer with using 2 amp channels to one speaker....yes you can. Will it make a market improvement ? Yes and no...depends on the amp....and the speakers. Some speaker designs are inherently power hungry while others aren't as much. Also, the top portion of most speakers use very little power, 10-30 watts probably for most common name speakers. Why dedicate 200+ watts to a channel that won't use it ? See what I'm sayin' ?

Sweets10v8

Ok thanks,

so by running one 200w signal to a single front speaker, just makes the 200w available to be used by whatever askes for it? (Within the entire system of components in that single speaker)?

As in, not feeding it 200w and forcing it to take it all the time, but just having it available to be used.

tonyb

Sweets10v8 wrote: »

Ok thanks,

so by running one 200w signal to a single front speaker, just makes the 200w available to be used by whatever askes for it? (Within the entire system of components in that single speaker)?

As in, not feeding it 200w and forcing it to take it all the time, but just having it available to be used.

You got the first part right.....but not sure where your going on the second part. Lets say for example you use a 2 channel 200 watt amp, the amp does not put out the full rated power as soon as you turn it on. It's not automatically feeding 200 watts to your speakers. An amp stores power basically to use when the volume dial and speakers ask for more power....up to their limits anyway. Always better to have more power available than not enough.

Sweets10v8

Gotcha.... Soon I may be able to even look at classified here, haha not quite to 100 yet

tonyb

Normally speakers with more drivers will need more current to stop and start those drivers. Certain designs, parts used, amount of bigger drivers will dictate how much power is necessary. Usually in most speakers the lower mids and bass drivers need the most current to sound their best and operate to their potential. Notice I said current and not watts, you want to look at amps that are higher current, usually stated as amperes peek to peek. Good solid state amps for bigger speakers with a lot of drivers have between 50-80 ampere's peek to peek. Also depends on how loud you like it too. The louder you like it, the more you turn up the volume dial, the more the speakers ask for power and the amp has to put out....if it's available. If not, you clip and send distortion into your speakers toasting a tweeter or crossover.

More so a simpler explanation to help you, really is more to it than that but put in simple terms. Now taking an amp channel and simply putting it on the top post of the speaker, which may use only 30 watts, what happens to those other 170 watts from that 200 watt amp ? It goes unused....poof....not available to the bottom portion that really sucks up the power needs.

Some speaker designs can and do benefit more so from amping up both sets of posts separately. IMHO...Polks aren't one of them as their current designs are pretty efficient. A high current, 200 watt+ per channel amp by any decent brand is more than enough to power most the speakers out there today using one set of posts on the speaker. Exceptions of course are out there, but you get what I mean.

F1nut

Sweets10v8 wrote: »

Bi amping was a simple question if I used two channels on an amp, not avr. Say I get 5 channel, run two to each of the fronts, and one to the center, let avr power the surrounds...

The more compilcated answer is it's still not really bi-amping. True bi-amping requires a completely separate amp for each speaker and the use of an active crossover.