Any NAD fans out there?

mantis

Whats up everyone?
I just came home with a NAD T187 Preamp and a NAD T977 7 channel amp.
I've been considering going back to separates for quite awhile now. With B&K out of the picture and Rotel not really making anything that excites me to the point of purchase, NAD found it's way into my life.
Now granted I have worked with NAD over the years and I have always have been pretty damn impressed with sound quality. Now the Looks? Not so much. I find NAD to be done right ugly. I look at it and think "really? They could have done such a better job here". Ok it's unique but not really in a good way.
As far as price is concerned, I feel they are on par with anything else you can look at in this price class. But one thing you will notice about the T187 pre is the fact it's about as featureless as it possibly could be. It has Audyssey MultEQ XT and I'm not sure how I feel about that. We shall see how it performs in my room with my speakers.
I'm gonna VS the package against my Pioneer Elite SC-68 which has the same exact watt spec as the T977 in 140 watts per channel. I'm hoping for more clarity , darker back grounds , sparkle up top and punchier mid range. I'm also hoping dynamic range improves.
I currently use the DAC in the Elite SC-68 for 24/ 192 stuff and I'm completely happy with it. I'm considering a NAD DAC as I have messed around with a few and was impressed with overall performance. This is really another conversation but a huge part of my musical experience.
My goal with this setup would be really better music reproduction. I'm not at all unhappy with the Pioneer especially considering my room is less then ideal. The Def Tech Mythos ST's and the Elite have a pretty special relationship and really show each other off. I have done ST's on NAD in the past and thought it was incredible. It's been years since I heard the 2 together so I'm looking forward to the setup.

I have however been pretty busy and had the NAD setup for a few days now and it's not installed. Thats a rarity for me as when I bring something home new I want to put it in that very second. I gotta do a full re wire of my system and move things around to fit them in properly so it's a few hours of work. I have them sitting on top on my rack and considered just connecting 2 channels and playing some music.

I'll post some pics.

mantis

Dawgfish

I really like NAD stuff myself. I own older 2400 and 2600 power envelope amps and a newer M-55 digital disc player. They all have great sound quality. Congrats on the score!

Clipdat

Nice! Those pieces of equipment scream quality!

Personally, I love my NAD C316BEE - a great budget/starter integrated with awesome sound quality.

PSOVLSK

I have the T-955 in my HT. Great little amp.

I love the understated, basic look of NAD gear.

BlueFox

Good luck with the T187. While I have read great things about them I have returned two, one to Audio Advisor, the other to Crutchfield. Both of them had audible buzzing from all 5 speakers. I ended up with an Onkyo PR-SC5809, which is dead silent and works great.

mantis

BlueFox wrote: »

Good luck with the T187. While I have read great things about them I have returned two, one to Audio Advisor, the other to Crutchfield. Both of them had audible buzzing from all 5 speakers. I ended up with an Onkyo PR-SC5809, which is dead silent and works great.

I remember your thread on it and hope I don't have the same issues. Today is Install day and I'm ripping apart the entire rack to go back to separates. If I do all this work and have the same issues you had, I'm returning both unless the amp makes a big enough difference over using the internal amps of the SC-68. I'm wondering if that might be the best overall performance IF I get some head room and more dynamic range. We shall see.

PSOVLSK

FWIW: I found that my T-955 gave me increased performance over my SC-05.

mantis

BlueFox wrote: »

Good luck with the T187. While I have read great things about them I have returned two, one to Audio Advisor, the other to Crutchfield. Both of them had audible buzzing from all 5 speakers. I ended up with an Onkyo PR-SC5809, which is dead silent and works great.

I got it all Installed today and sorry to say to you I have no issues like you described. It's sounds clean, warm and very punchy.
The Ap is extremely cool as I can fully setup the preamp with it. I really like that. I'm gonna write a full review once I finish putting it through it's paces.

BlueFox

Great. I don't know why I had that issue since the only change was the pre-amp. Each NAD would buzz, other gear was/is fine. Anyway, enjoy your new toys.

mantis

I did some serious 2 channel Listening today after all was said and done and what I noticed compared to the Pioneer Elite SC-68 is the following.
1) Control , it seems like the woofers have more control over them. They seem to start and stop a bit quicker.It's like the Dampening factor is higher.
2) Warm, The SC-68 is a very warm and beautiful sounding receiver but this NAD setup I got is even more pleasing. It's not a radical difference like night and day, it's more subtle. Small things like comfort and balance with the mid range. It sounds like someone tweaked my crossovers.
3) Clarity, this is something I felt the SC-68 did very well. Very revealing AVR and very comparable to the NAD setup. But the NAD seems to have just a and more balance in clarity. I can hear things a bit more on their own without having to listen for awhile into the music. I can hear it right away.
4) Power, the NAD T977 amp is rated at 140 watts per channel all channels driven. The SC-68 is also rated at 140 Watts per channel. The difference is very small in power but yet I feel like the speakers seem to play what I send them more effortlessly. It's like a reserve that is just dying to spring into life.
I'll be honest, before I took the T977 home, I was on the fence with not having 200 to more watts. But The T977 performs like it has 300+. It's not volume that is in question, it's the effortless sound I now have. I'm a bit taken by it's grace. Even with only 140 watts of power, I feel like I made a upgrade in this area. Not to mention the damn amp weighs in over 70 lbs and has a full fan system built in. It gets much warmer then the SC-68 ever did. Pioneer did many things right when they built the SC lines. They just got better and better. The SC-68 is an achievement in Receiver in AVR technology and I would be completely happy with it even after listening to the small differences going back to separates has made.
I have not tried the SC-68 as a preamp with the NAD amp. I'm not really sure I want to now.
FEATURES, this is where I feel I lost a lot. not to mention the T187 does not support front Height or Wide channels. I think thats stupid and I'm a bit not sure if I'm happy about that. I wanted to buy a pair of Gem XL's for heights but I never got around to it. With the NAD I can't add Heights but the Preamp is a card based platform so maybe NAD will release a Height and width output card.
No Built in USB Dac so I need to get an external to play my computer music. This is one thing the SC-68 excelled at. Think about it, having a high quality built in USB DAC is magical IMO. It's what got me to upgrade from my SC-07 to the SC-68. It's so damn good to. This is an area I can't compare the NAD to the Pioneer as the High Rez music makes it a completely unfair compare. NAD has a few DAC's I'm looking at so I might go that way. Sony's new unit also looks very cool which is another consideration.
NO BALANCED, is it needed? No but I wouldn't mind having balanced outputs. Currently it's dead silent but I have done some comparisons and felt that Balanced IC's are so much better then Single ended due to the ability to shield out noise. Even if you had entry level cables, you would have a very nice black back ground with no noise. Something I wish NAD would use.
LOOKS, now this is where the Elite whips it's ****. The Elite is sexy even in it's worse look in 15 years. The NAD is Gray and as plain as Jane ever was. I personally don't think it's good looking gear and that does bother me some. I look at it and don't feel all warm and juicy like when I look at Pioneer Elite gear. If Pioneer offered a Preamp and Amp, I would return the NAD.
I don't have that many hours on the NAD gear so I'm gonna run it for a week and then sit down and really listen again. Right now I'm saying it's a slightly upgrade from where. the SC-68 is that good.
Some Pic's after I removed the SC-68 and installed the pre and amp.

Stew

Hope you're enjoying the new NAD's. I'm expecting a C275Bee to arrive on my doorstep tomorrow.

mantis

Stew wrote: »

Hope you're enjoying the new NAD's. I'm expecting a C275Bee to arrive on my doorstep tomorrow.

It's interesting, I'm in demo mode with it right now studying everything it does and don't. I do however like the laid back sound it has or effortless if you will.
The 275 amp is very nice. Good luck with it

BKphoto

I have a 1020 preamp...it is dead quiet...very happy with it

voltz

I have the NAD T758 and a Adcom 5503 hooked to it to drive my RTiA7's and my CSiA4 center. letting the NAD drive my FXiA4's!

Love the sound but it lacks some features that I keep telling myself I really don' need! all in all I'm semi happy but setup has been a pain for me.

mantis

voltz wrote: »

I have the NAD T758 and a Adcom 5503 hooked to it to drive my RTiA7's and my CSiA4 center. letting the NAD drive my FXiA4's!

Love the sound but it lacks some features that I keep telling myself I really don' need! all in all I'm semi happy but setup has been a pain for me.

I hear you on that. I went from a full featured SC-68 to the T187 Preamp which has just about nothing. I want to revisit the front height idea but with this preamp I'm beat. No outputs for it. but again it's modular so Im hoping with a strong letter to NAD, they will release a Front Height, Front Wide precut card and upgrade. Right now I'm fully temped to pull the preamp and put the SC-68 in as a Preamp.
I'm actually strongly considering doing so.

ALSATIAN in USA

Sorry but NAD are maybe good sounding product but the look of their line never enjoyed me...More boring, you die!...Like ADCOM(simply awfull looking)!..Why they don't make any effort on design like YAMAHA, SONY, PIONEER, DENON ?

RamZet

The NAD stuff will out last you. Its good reliable gear.

RamZet

ALSATIAN in USA wrote: »

Sorry but NAD are maybe good sounding product but the look of their line never enjoyed me...More boring, you die!...Like ADCOM(simply awfull looking)!..Why they don't make any effort on design like YAMAHA, SONY, PIONEER, DENON ?

NAD is professional gear designed to be stored away in AV racks in a closet or basement. Its for installers.

Dennis Gardner

Why did AV companies choose to have receivers carry more features than their preamp processors. It has never made sense to me that they offer the best features on their lower line products. If cars were marketed the same way, and Lincolns and Cadillacs simply "drove better" without any features on them, they wouldn't sell any upscale cars.

ALSATIAN in USA

NAD is professional gear designed to be stored away in AV racks in a closet or basement. Its for installers......................Ah, OK! Yep, they look pro gear.

RocketOCannon

Hi Dan,

Gotta say, I REALLLYYYY like my NAD amps! I live in my basement enjoying the rich, full, warm, controlled sound they produce.
You were one of the CP folks that pointed me in that direction over a year ago. GRAND SLAM!

Enjoy your new toys!

Dropthebeat

awesome setup , I have a nad 2600a that was given to me and now I'm waiting on a 2700 to arrive within the next days. Surprised how well the 2600 sounds considering its age. Absolutely no problems from this amp. I dont see myself changing amps anytime soon.

mantis

ALSATIAN in USA wrote: »

Sorry but NAD are maybe good sounding product but the look of their line never enjoyed me...More boring, you die!...Like ADCOM(simply awfull looking)!..Why they don't make any effort on design like YAMAHA, SONY, PIONEER, DENON ?

Someone at NAD thinks it's good looking, I for one do not.

mantis

RamZet wrote: »

NAD is professional gear designed to be stored away in AV racks in a closet or basement. Its for installers.

Not quit my friend. There are some die hard Audiophiles who love to look at it. All of them place their NAD gear right in the room.
Integra is made for Installers.

mantis

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Why did AV companies choose to have receivers carry more features than their preamp processors. It has never made sense to me that they offer the best features on their lower line products. If cars were marketed the same way, and Lincolns and Cadillacs simply "drove better" without any features on them, they wouldn't sell any upscale cars.

It's not like that. Think about it, Look at Onkyo and then it's preamp. It's loaded exactly as well as their flagship AVR, Same goes with Marantz , Denon and Integra. Even Yamaha follows suit.

What I think you mean is higher end gear lacks features, they always have they always will. I'll fill you in on a little industry not so secret. Higher end gear is not mass sold, it's not produced as much as lets say Pioneer or Denon. They also can't afford to pay all the license fees all the features demand.

Do you want to know why an amazing company like B&K isn't in business anymore? HDMI killed them.

mantis

RocketOCannon wrote: »

Hi Dan,

Gotta say, I REALLLYYYY like my NAD amps! I live in my basement enjoying the rich, full, warm, controlled sound they produce.
You were one of the CP folks that pointed me in that direction over a year ago. GRAND SLAM!

Enjoy your new toys!

I'll be completely honest here, the amp is simply amazing. It does not perform like a 140 watt by 7 amp , I would venture to say it's more like a 200 watt amp. The dynamics are reserve power is flat out amazing. I pushed it last night and it dared me to continue. I ran it hard and it never sounded strained or ever close to running out of head room.
Most if not all receivers at some point run out of head room. Yes they play louder but at the expense of dynamic range. The Caps start working during normal business hours and when something needs to be dynamic it simply isn't there.
A lot of factors to into that last comment I made, it's more a general then a given. Some AVR's can be pushed really hard and still have some power left over.

This NAD T977 amp is crazy. I'm thinking it might be even stronger then my old Rotel RMB1095. I thought that amp was very effortless but I did at that time have much more demanding speakers in my Dynaudio's.
Even at low volumes it's very nicely dynamic and punchy. I'm really digging this amp. I like it way more then the preamp.

dkg999

Dan - thank you for your time and effort to sample gear and provide real-world reviews, opinions and recommendations. Some sad day I will need to replace my trusty B&K AVR 507s2, and it's good to have your thoughts on various gear.

mantis

dkg999 wrote: »

Dan - thank you for your time and effort to sample gear and provide real-world reviews, opinions and recommendations. Some sad day I will need to replace my trusty B&K AVR 507s2, and it's good to have your thoughts on various gear.

Your very welcome. I'm exposed to so much gear and can't help myself bring a lot of it home. I also really enjoy talking about it.

If your B&K does go, which honestly you could upgrade that at any time, I think NAD might be able to fill your needs. Sound quality wise NAD is very very nice. I have no issues what so ever with performance. Dude this amp just keeps blowing me away. The Preamp however isn't on the same level as B&K was. If B&K was still in business, their preamp would be in my rack.

Fongolio

I just put a NAD 1130 preamp in my system and after only a day I'm very impressed with it. It was very inexpensive and it's a definite improvement over my re-capped Carver C-1 pre-amp. I'm using a Carver TFM-45 for amplification at the moment. The Nad/Carver combo is very nice. Very warm yet very detailed for solid state gear.

mantis

Fongolio wrote: »

I just put a NAD 1130 preamp in my system and after only a day I'm very impressed with it. It was very inexpensive and it's a definite improvement over my re-capped Carver C-1 pre-amp. I'm using a Carver TFM-45 for amplification at the moment. The Nad/Carver combo is very nice. Very warm yet very detailed for solid state gear.

Basically how I'm understanding my new sound. Very warm and detailed. Such a pleasure to listen to hour after hour. I've been playing with my new DAC. I got a new Thread about the DAC
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?159858-Nad-d1050-dac