I need a new DAC...well, maybe?

pearsall001

Sad to say but my beloved CAL Alpha tube DAC might have seen better days. I'm taking it to Stephen on Saturday for him to take a look at. Depending on what he finds it may or may not be worth the repair investment. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this one. Anyway, just in case I've started looking at DAC's in the $4-500.00 range. There's a lot out there at that price point. So far I've read up on a few: Musical Fidelity M1, Schiit Bifrost w/ the Uber analog upgrade, TEAC UD-HO1 & Emotiva Stealth DC-1 (keep your flame suits on LOL). What other DAC's should I be looking at?

11tsteve

i liked my Bifrost a lot... but my Current Peachtree DAC-it edged it out. And I have been enjoying it thoroughly. But it was $150 under the $500 you are willing to spend.

bobsauto49

In that price range, I hope you listen to a CA DacMagic+! I can't imagine anything in that price range besting it by a substantial margins! If at all!!

mantis

Talk to me before you buy a DAC , I have some good models at my disposal. Arcam and Music Fidelity are my go to right now but I have others in my lines. Also you should check out my shoot outs from last year.

EndersShadow

bobsauto49 wrote: »

In that price range, I hope you listen to a CA DacMagic+! I can't imagine anything in that price range besting it by a substantial margins! If at all!!

I too love my DacMagic. Its not going anywhere anytime soon.

bobsauto49

nbrowser wrote: »

I'm actually considering one of these in lieu of a AVR for my digital sources. Heard a lot of good about it and in a pinch, it can be a pre-amp all on it's own too if I recall and that's even defeatable.

Go for it!!! You wont be disappointed! I owned one of these for a year, and it took about 5x the price for me to want to upgrade!! Great Bang for Buck piece!!!!:cool:

tonyb

I 'm still looking for a Cary xciter in the 5 bone range, you should stick one on your list too....I know you dig what the Cal brought to the table and I think the Cary would be the closest to that sound.

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

I 'm still looking for a Cary xciter in the 5 bone range, you should stick one on your list too....I know you dig what the Cal brought to the table and I think the Cary would be the closest to that sound.

Consider it added. Have you heard the Cary?

EndersShadow

Oh guys I forgot to add.... IIRC Phil owned a dacmagic before lol.. He used a black cat veloce spdif cable w it.... Which is exactly my setup lol..

pearsall001

EndersShadow wrote: »

Oh guys I forgot to add.... IIRC Phil owned a dacmagic before lol.. He used a black cat veloce spdif cable w it.... Which is exactly my setup lol..

You are correct my good man. I was very pleased w/ the DacMagic & the Veloce Black cat cable. They made wonderful music together. But after hearing the CAL Alpha DAC & how well it conveyed the purity of the recording I realized that is the way I like my music served up. It doesn't do any upsampling, just serves it straight up. And if the CAL isn't fixable I'll be looking for that same type of presentation. It might be hard to find amongst all of these new fangled DAC's & their chest thumping specs...that really doesn't impress me too much. 16bit/44.1 done the way it was intended is glorious sounding! No need to fudge the sound in my book.

tonyb

pearsall001 wrote: »

16bit/44.1 done the way it was intended is glorious sounding! No need to fudge the sound in my book.

Agree, but statements like that won't sell new gear. I dig really good cd quality myself. Trying to squeeze that analog sound out of digital can be daunting.

I'm afraid you may have to up your budget to replace the Cal, not aware of any dac new or used for 4-5 bones that would give you the same sound....or close to it. You could always hunt down another Cal dac and use the one you have for parts too. Bobsauto has the Cary 100t dac, expensive....but he claims worth every penny. Tube dacs to match that Cal sound....gonna cost some coinage bro.

4xoddic

Since you brought it up . . . . Crutch****d has the TEAC UD-HO1 for $249 FS special purchase . . .

Given what DSkip has heard about the Teac/Schiit house sound . . . I'd have to wonder IF that applies to the UD-501?

11tsteve

4xoddic wrote: »

Since you brought it up . . . . Crutch****d has the TEAC UD-HO1 for $249 FS special purchase . . .

Given what DSkip has heard about the Teac/Schiit house sound . . . I'd have to wonder IF that applies to the UD-501?

hearing "about" a house sound, and actually hearing a house sound for one's self, are two different things. Maybe somebody has actually heard one?

heiney9

$400-500 bones for a main rig DAC probably won't get the job done.

bobsauto49

I have, and thought the ud501 sounded very sterile, lackluster! No envolvement in the music. Just my .02, I returned it a week later.

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

Agree, but statements like that won't sell new gear. I dig really good cd quality myself. Trying to squeeze that analog sound out of digital can be daunting.

I'm afraid you may have to up your budget to replace the Cal, not aware of any dac new or used for 4-5 bones that would give you the same sound....or close to it. You could always hunt down another Cal dac and use the one you have for parts too. Bobsauto has the Cary 100t dac, expensive....but he claims worth every penny. Tube dacs to match that Cal sound....gonna cost some coinage bro.

Well, Stephen's expecting me tomorrow with the DAC. He has a good idea what the issue might be & hopefully it's an easy fix. If not then my journey begins.

heiney9 wrote: »

$400-500 bones for a main rig DAC probably won't get the job done.

I feel so enlightened now...LOL!!!

11tsteve

DSkip wrote: »

When one person says it (example above), you take a note and continue to research. When you find multiple people saying the same thing, using the exact same words to describe it, you start to get an idea for the sound. I'm very picky when it comes to a DAC, and if someone calls one sterile/cold, that is NOT a positive by any measure. Moving from a tube DAC like the OP has that I can only imagine brings a certain amount of warmth to the music to what many call a cold DAC will not be a good move.

I'm all for hearing it for yourself, but you can learn a lot if you know how to research and figure out who talks with experience and who talks with numbers. 99% of the time, the guys I trust are absolutely spot-on when it comes to describing a component. A DAC is a BIG part of the system and can completely destroy what once was a stellar system in the matter of a few switched plugs.



FWIW, I've heard Schiit, albeit their entry level. I've been informed by someone I trust that this 'sound' is shared in their products, hence I highly recommend staying away from it for a 2ch rig.

it is a lot different when fully explained.... and the whole thought process is there.I apologize if what I said sounded confrontational.
Unfortunately, I am still stuck, monetarily, at the entry level... which I consider (for the most part) $500 to be the top range.
I started with a Matrix Mini, went to the Bifrost (which was a step up sonically in my ears, and then the Peachtree was better yet. I have yet to hear the next level of quality, but am learning through this thread there may be better choices yet in my range. But, I picked the Dac-it based on many reviews here.

txcoastal1

In the $500 range of Dac's I can recommend Jolida's FX DAC III. We are using it in our demo/show rig along JD801ARC Integrated.

We were looking for Jolida JD100A CD player which has been discontinued (although there are a few stragglers on the market and if Jesse would have posted his hot rod JD100 a week earlier it would have been mine)

So we decided to go with the FX DAC and a Marantz CD5004 as a transport which has great reviews as a combo to out perform the famous JD100.

It has performed very well as a keep it simple rig.

heiney9

DSkip wrote: »

In the sub $500, or even sub $1000 dac market, I think its very difficult to find a dac that offers both musicality and detail in the same package.

Nail, hammer, head.

It can probably be done, but some experimentation needs to be done.

txcoastal1

heiney9 wrote: »

Nail, hammer, head.

It can probably be done, but some experimentation needs to be done.

Brock,
Just as you have done with your pre's and tubes....customized them to your liking at a budget not to break the bank. The killer is patience.

heiney9

I agree, I think it can be done, but one has to be willing to experiment a bit and really get one's feet wet so to speak. There are some really nice pieces out there that are really, really good w/o the very high $$$, but you really have to do some research.

H9

tonyb

I know Phil is after that analog sound in a dac. The Cal brought that for him as most tubes would. Remove some of that harsh digital sound at higher volumes. Unfortunately in the 500 buck range of dacs, the missing link seems to be well built analog output stages and well built power supplies.

The Jolida tube dac 3 mentioned above may be the closest contender to the Cal dac in his price range, and I know there is mods to be had for it too. I also like the Rega and the Cary xciter....Cary knows a thing or two about analog output stages. To my ears anyway, the cheaper dacs seem to miss that tonal righteousness analog brings to the table. Most assume dacs are all about chip sets, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Phil and I are on similar journeys, trying to mesh that convenience of digital with the sound of good analog. Have to kiss a few toads along the way to get your prince of a sound. Good luck on your search Phil, maybe the Cal dac can be fixed, even modded, to bring you back into the realm of good sound.

11tsteve

tonyb wrote: »

I know Phil is after that analog sound in a dac. The Cal brought that for him as most tubes would. Remove some of that harsh digital sound at higher volumes. Unfortunately in the 500 buck range of dacs, the missing link seems to be well built analog output stages and well built power supplies.

so, to my ears, I find the sound of my system to be very pleasing at (what I would call) mid sound pressures. Nothing ear shattering, but a decent thump without rattling windows. But if I do try to get more towards a stadium rock volume, highs get a little edgy, and the mids, especially vocals, seem to retreat and the soundstage compresses a bit. My 11t's are completely refurbished, and I am no where near running out of power in my B&K ... is this what you are talking about "digital harshness"?
And make no mistake, I understand my feet are firmly planted in mid-fi. Though it is the best system I have ever owned, I would like to smooth it out as best as I can.
And I apologize if I am derailing anything by starting a separate discussion.

tonyb

11tsteve wrote: »

so, to my ears, I find the sound of my system to be very pleasing at (what I would call) mid sound pressures. Nothing ear shattering, but a decent thump without rattling windows. But if I do try to get more towards a stadium rock volume, highs get a little edgy, and the mids, especially vocals, seem to retreat and the soundstage compresses a bit. My 11t's are completely refurbished, and I am no where near running out of power in my B&K ... is this what you are talking about "digital harshness"?
And make no mistake, I understand my feet are firmly planted in mid-fi. Though it is the best system I have ever owned, I would like to smooth it out as best as I can.
And I apologize if I am derailing anything by starting a separate discussion.

What are you using as a source ? Could be any number of things but most likely distortion in your source or volume control. Could also be your realizing the limits of your speakers at certain higher volumes. Everything has limits, certainly volume dials do too.

If your using digital files, a lot rests in the file itself if copied wrong or played back MP3 files at higher volumes. In any event, once you start hearing that congestion in your music at higher volumes, turn it down, it's telling you you've reached your limits and pushing it will only damage the speakers.

11tsteve

Source is... AIFF file---HT Omega Striker card---- Huffman coax----DAC-it---NAD 116 pre---- B&K 200.2. Using Morrow and Audioquest cable, MIT speaker cables. Jriver using ASIO4ALL.

My question was oriented toward others commenting on being able to play higher volumes without hearing that compression, and my thoughts were that my amp had plenty of room left as this phenomena can start as early as 10-ish on the volume knob.
Maybe it would be better if you could explain what you mean by digital harshness?

Mike Reeter

Check out the EE Mini Max http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-eastern-electric-minimax-dac-2014-02-19-digital-94506 a tubed (12AU7) DAC that also allows op-amp rolling, great sounding unit.

heiney9

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Check out the EE Mini Max http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-eastern-electric-minimax-dac-2014-02-19-digital-94506 a tubed (12AU7) DAC that also allows op-amp rolling, great sounding unit.

If it's anything like the EE Mini Max pre, it should be superb! There is a lot of on-line info on that unit. I bought my EE Mini Max pre based on all the positive user and professional experiences, and they were right on the money.

H9

tonyb

11tsteve wrote: »

Source is... AIFF file---HT Omega Striker card---- Huffman coax----DAC-it---NAD 116 pre---- B&K 200.2. Using Morrow and Audioquest cable, MIT speaker cables. Jriver using ASIO4ALL.

My question was oriented toward others commenting on being able to play higher volumes without hearing that compression, and my thoughts were that my amp had plenty of room left as this phenomena can start as early as 10-ish on the volume knob.
Maybe it would be better if you could explain what you mean by digital harshness?

Digital harshness is more or less that sharpness that makes your ears fatigue at higher volumes....even lower volumes in some cases. AIFF files are fine as long as they were not converted MP3 files....or if you bought MP3 files and then converted them. Even a poorly recorded cd can have a digital glare to it too, lots of variables as to why that is. Congestion in the music at higher volumes is different. That's telling you you've reached the end of your road for whatever reason and you need to back off that volume dial.

tonyb

heiney9 wrote: »

If it's anything like the EE Mini Max pre, it should be superb! There is a lot of on-line info on that unit. I bought my EE Mini Max pre based on all the positive user and professional experiences, and they were right on the money.

H9

Forgot about the mini max....I think we had a dac shoot out with the minimax here somewhere and it had a good interpretation of it's sound.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-eastern-electric-minimax-dac-2014-02-19-digital-94506

11tsteve

tonyb wrote: »

Digital harshness is more or less that sharpness that makes your ears fatigue at higher volumes....even lower volumes in some cases. AIFF files are fine as long as they were not converted MP3 files....or if you bought MP3 files and then converted them. Even a poorly recorded cd can have a digital glare to it too, lots of variables as to why that is. Congestion in the music at higher volumes is different. That's telling you you've reached the end of your road for whatever reason and you need to back off that volume dial.

thanks Tony.

heiney9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Musical-Fidelity-A3-24-DAC-Perfect-9-condition-/291087324324?pt=US_CD_Players_Recorders&hash=item43c62814a4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSICAL-PARADISE-MP-D1-24Bit-USB-Asynchronous-Digital-to-Analog-Converter-DAC-/271410069451?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3f314cffcb

http://www.acoustic-fun.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=85

The last one I posted is the "newer, upgraded" version from the same designer (David Keces) as my Keces DA-151 I use in the office rig. Superbly built with great parts, I would seriously consider it for my main rig if I ever decide to part with my modded Adcom GDA-600. Occasionally they are sold new on EBAY but you can buy direct.

Just some Saturday morning suggestions.

H9