2 channel music RT-800i musical ?

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

Ok, I'm confused

Looking to have better 2 channel sound. Equipment used is Onkyo 898 in pure audio, RT-800i speakers. Want is best an add on amp or speakers?

Spent some time at Sound Advise and now more confused then anything.

hoosier21 · February 2004

I would look for a good used amp

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

That's what I was thinking at first, but at Sound Advise I heard for my self that some speakers are designed for HT some are better at music.

So is RT-800i musical? Another way of putting this is can you tell who sits behind who in the group by listening ?

Am I better off with speakers if this is true, Amp 10% Cables 10% Speakers 80% ?

dorokusai · February 2004

Dedicated components often result in much better performance. I will echo Hoosier's recommendation of sourcing an amplifier.

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

Ok, I think I will look for an good used amp, to add to my system.

Any brand I should look for ?

dorokusai · February 2004

That is such an open ended question, I barely want to get involved.

The first step here, is to set a price range, because that whole question, with the resulting answers, can get wacky. If you are not opposed to used gear, www.audiogon.com has some real nice choices, that would allow you to get in a higher end bracket.

organ · February 2004

What's your budget on the amp? You might want to look for an integrated tube amp. The 800i and tubes is very, very musical. I'm telling you, the 800i's and tubes can really sing. I prefer the sound of my 800i with tubes over the LSi9 powered by a NAD amp.

Maurice

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

Sorry I have to agree about the open ended question.

The question should be, should I be looking for an amp that has input gain adjustment ?

I looking at an used amp that doesn't have adjustment, and thinking I would / may have a level problem. Some amps seem to spec for 1.25 or 1.5 volt for full rated power, but my 898 says 1 volt ? Just more confusing here for me.

dorokusai · February 2004

Don't get too caught up in the information. Just set a comfortable price level for your wallet, and let the forum know what it is....then some recommendations will be made.

Input level bias/volume adjustment is certainly a nice feature, but by no means neccesary unless you are running speakers, with different sensitivity and specifications.

I ran Parsound HCA-1500A's with adjustable gain, but had zero use for that feature, due to the fact I was running 2CH(Stereo) only. Same situation would apply to my current 2CH amplifier.

Sydney's Dad(Polk Audio forum user), however, has a classic example of the advantage of adjustable gain output. He is planning on using 4 Sony ES amps, to run 2 different Polk speakers...this may be helpful in fine tuning them at reference levels or below.

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

My price level is about $800, used.

reeltrouble1 · February 2004

Hello DisJoe,

I understand about Sound Advice, went to the one near me in Jacksonville, Fl. and I think the salesman got fired from Circuit City;)

I started much the same as you with the Onk, they do a great job with HT but 2 ch is not their forte, I have gone to separate amp and although it is seven channel amp my 2 ch listening experience has improved using the Direct mode on the ONK thereby passing all of the processing and sending the signal to just the front speakers. Things are definately better, however, I still plan to upgrade the pre/pro since things are still just a little to "bright" for me, listening fatige usually occurs after 1.5-2 hr. depending upon volume level.

You can get a lot of really good quality used 2 ch amps for 800 over on audiogon, but the problem is you cannot usually hear them before you buy, it is a process, but I try to enjoy it and not be hasty. You might want to get a really good 2ch amp and use your ONK as the pre/pro for a while. You could add a 5 channel amp later to go to 7.1 if you want to or just stay 2ch and use the receiver for the rest of your needs.

I think your speakers are fine for now and would put the money into seperate pieces.

The brands previously mentioned are all good choices they are quality equipment in the same general class, they may sound somewhat different from each other but not necessarily better, just different.;)

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

Ok, here what I'm thinking now.

Adding a ADCOM 5802 amp used for say $850, wiring with Signal cables

(think I'm be happy with that).

All above will be wired to my Onkyo preamp output / using the pure audio mode for 2 channel. If this doesn't please me in the future perhaps a ADCOM preamp before amp bypassing the onkyo for my CD player.

For the record i'm happy with the HT mode with Polk / Onkyo / Servo 15 :cool:

Loud & Clear · February 2004

I'm not particularly fond of the 800is without a sub, if that's what you're talking about.

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

>I'm not particularly fond of the 800is without a sub, if that's what you're talking about.<

No, but maybe i'm missing something. I listen to my CD player 4 / 5 hours a day with the RT-800i's only. Onkyo pure audio mode to me sounds best. The pure audio mode shuts down all other electronics in the receiver and shuts off sub output. In stereo mode will work sub, but colors music too much for me.

Or is it that Servo 15 is too large for RT-800i's can never find a level / setting that I like for HT & 2 channel music?

Loud & Clear · February 2004

I always had that problem too, but after reading some advise from 'tha docta', I was able to get the sub dialed in nicely for all listening modes. I started off by adjusting the preamp (Denon 2802) gain for my subwoofer to -7 (-5 for DD & DTS) on a -10 to +10 scale and adjusting the volume on the sub's plate amp to just about the halfway mark. Receiver's crossover at 80Hz. Of course placement is also a huge issue, but I found that corner loading it in the right/front of the room produced fine results. The 800is produce a quality midrange and high, just keep them from attempting much below 80Hz and and integrate that sub properly; if you can accomplish that, they be 'musical'.

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

Onkyo 2 channels lets say fair.

2 channel stereo OK in pure audio, sucks in stereo mode. LFE works only in stereo mode, not pure audio. Like the sound of Pure Audio, but not stereo. So with the sub issue, hooked up the sub to right preamp output, like that maybe because i hear it in PA mode. So how should i hook up the sub on an onkyo 898?

Sub Paradigm Servo 15 with X-30 control.

VR3 · February 2004

Disney,
If you're willing to give something a try. I will let you in on a setup thing.

If your receiver has preouts, buy a 2 channel amp and buy some bookshelfs like the RT5 or RT35i and wire them up, and use them on the receiver amps, and the 800i on the seperate amp, turn the bookshelf upside down and turn them on at the same time. I have never tried this with receiver amps and a seperate amp. My suggestion would be to find an Onkyo amp for this if you decide to try it, but I use Adcom amps for this. Anyways, try it out. I did this to solve my problems with the RTi70, you might like it as well.

dorokusai · February 2004

Or just not try that idea at all.

ken brydson · February 2004

Originally posted by dorokusai
Or just not try that idea at all.

AMEN!!

LuSh · February 2004

What kind of source are you using? You might be surprised how much of a difference a simple dedicated CD player could make. Why waste money if your source is the weakest link?

Just a thought.

Tour2ma · February 2004

Back on topic...

The 800's are not high on my list of 2ch Polks.

VR3 · February 2004

Originally posted by dorokusai
Or just not try that idea at all.

:rolleyes: Yall the most stubborn people I know. Two people have seen the light! Juice21 and I, we are the ONLY people on this forum that isnt scared to try something new????????????????????????????????????? Yall will stack 2-3-4 centers across your front stage but wont stack speakers for your mains? ok...

anyways, back on topic

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

>Back on topic...

The 800's are not high on my list of 2ch Polks.<

Ok so what do you suggest ?

Equipment used in HT

L-R polk RT-800i's

C polk CS-400i

SL-SR polk RT-600i's

Sub Paradigm servo-15

Onkyo 898

Loud & Clear · February 2004

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
>Back on topic...

The 800's are not high on my list of 2ch Polks.<

Ok so what do you sugguest ?

Equipment used in HT

L-R polk RT-800i's

C polk CS-400i

SL-SR polk RT-600i's

Sub Paradigm servo-15

Onkyo 898

If your receiver's pre is THAT bad, that simply switching from direct to stereo makes such a disturbing difference in sound, and it isn't about the sub's integration (which we discussed), then you need a new receiver. The 800is sound nice when they aren't asked to reproduce anything below 80, or so, Hz. Or maybe you should try another speaker instead, one that doesn't muddy up when played "full range."

There's nothing wrong with the way the 800is express mids and highs, objectively, unless you want to say that a great many $1,000 and under speakers aren't "musical."

HBombToo · February 2004

The 800i is the best speaker ever built and if you don't have a pair I feal bad for ya;)

HBomb

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

Ok sorry for the hand holding here.

I'm not sure what I should do, but maybe your right I need to make the decision. Thanks I do think for the money this setup ROCKS

My 2 channel taste have changed, getting older maybe? But not too old that I don't like to ROCK the house.

So I don't wish to put money where it will not make the most sense. If the RT-800i's are not real good 2 channel speakers it's ok. But if it's best to add a nice amp or Zone 2 my self to another room in this house for my 2 channel needs. This is the big picture so to speak. It was all I was trying to do sorry.

With a 250 CD collection I don't wish to redo so Zone 2 from the Onkyo maybe best. Or AMP. Or Speakers. OR?

VR3 · February 2004

*sigh*

No one listens to me........

I've never owned the RT800i, but I own the RTi70 - if their performance is similar, I RECOMEND you buy 2 2 channel amps or a 4 channel amp and STACK a speaker on top of them. For all thats great! It does SO much for the speaker, sound wise. The mids greaten, the soundstage greatens, the highs are sweeter (which is the top reason why I do it) and the entire setup just sounds......FULLER!

Juice21 tried it with the RT35i and RT800i and swore by it!

I've tried it with the RT35i and RTi70, RT5 and RTi70 and I want to try other combos. I hope to get ahold of a pair of RTi6 in the near future to give a test run.

dorokusai · February 2004

I think he has already stated that his listening needs are beyond what he now has experienced....namely the RTxxi series. The stacking of speakers is not anywhere close to a fix, for this issue, why keep bringing it up? I am sorry, I do not subscribe to a 2 person experience of "Audio Nirvana".

Disney - I think your Zone 2 idea is a good one. It utilizes your existing equipment and allows you to set up another listening area. That being the working idea, I would suggest a separate amplifier for that room or area. If you are a Polk fanatic, like most on board, I would recommend checking out the LSi series to satisfy your changing ears. They are suited for critical listening and given proper amplification, should take care of your every need.

Just an idea.

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

*sigh*

No one listens to me........

Ok, You have my attention...

But maybe if RT35i are better stereo speakers, I may do this put them in another room and leave my HT alone.

If I did this then the AMP idea is dead.

Money does play into all this.

VR3 · February 2004

Mark,
You've never heard it. Your opinion to me means little.

If you cant get amps and the speakers, its not worth the try. Know what I mean?

Check out some Polk Audio CRS+, SDA 2b --- etc

PS - Mark the above isnt meant as bad or anything, but you've been rocking the stacking boat the entire time it's been ever mentioned and you've never heard it. So I don't see why you talk about it?

To disney -- Try to go for a NAD amp, or an Adcom amp, or AMC, or Rotel, etc etc etc --- anywhere from 100-200 watts.

Adcom GFA-545 (100 watts) sells from 200-250 shipped
Adcom GFA-535 (60 watts) sells from 120-170 shipped
Adcom GFA-555 (200 watts) sells from 350+

disneyjoe7 · February 2004

>I would recommend checking out the LSi series to satisfy your changing ears<

Ok so I like the looks of LSi9's are these midrange open as they say love to hear these, but CC is not the place and I think Polk messed up with this one CC thing.

2 channel music RT-800i musical ?

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