3ch amp + receiver vs. 7ch amp + pre/pro

falconcry72

I'm looking to upgrade both my pre/pro and power amp in my HT setup. Requirements are that the pre/pro (or receiver) must have Audyssey XT32 with Sub EQ HT, and the amp (or in combination with the receiver) must have 7 channels of amplification.

So, most folk's gut would be to go pre/pro and 7 channel amp. The dilemma is that for the same money as the 7 channel amp, I could get a higher quality 3 channel amp... but then I'd have to use a receiver to power the surrounds, which may not sound as good as a pre/pro as a preamp. I'm not worried about the receiver's amps sounding bad on the surrounds, I'm really only concerned with the receiver's preamp section potentially not being as good as a pre/pro for the fronts.

Here are a couple examples of what the setups could look like:

3ch amp route:
- receiver: Denon X4000, Onkyo/Integra equivalent
- amp: Bryston 5BST, 6BST, Krell KAV-250, W4S MC-3 etc.

7ch amp route:
- pre/pro: Onkyo 5509/Integra 80.3
- amp: B&K 200.7, older model Rotel or Parasound 5ch + 2ch, W4S MMC-7

Right now I'm leaning towards the receiver + 3ch amp route.

So the real question is: will using a receiver as a preamp negate any improvements made by upgrading the power amp? ... or will one of the receivers I listed perform as well as a preamp as the pre/pros listed??

tonyb

If your talking strictly for HT purposes, I'd go receiver and amp. To me, good pre pro's come into the picture when you want to do music/ht in one system. In general, pre/pros have better build quality, better pre amp sections, analog output stages, but that may or may not be that noticeable on HT.

Your Marantz pre pro is sweet bro, seems like a lot of trouble to go threw just to get xt32. My .02, the Rotel amp is the weak link with those LSIM's.

A couple Cary Cinema 12's pre/pro's have popped up for around 2300. No xt32, put you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't like the SQ that comes out the other end. I think it was Doro who said, "Ht is easy, 2 channel takes some thought".

falconcry72

I like your philosophy, tony. I will say; however, that XT32 is the ****. I heard it with my own ears in my own system, and it was dramatic... especially with the dual subs. That requirement will not change, but I do think the receiver vs, pre/pro would be more flexible for varying configurations down the line.

There also seem to be more choices and better prices on receivers vs pre/pros.

And I'm reallllllly liking the idea of a krell or bryston with these LsiMs... give'em a little sparkle.

tonyb

falconcry72 wrote: »

There also seem to be more choices and better prices on receivers vs pre/pros.

And I'm reallllllly liking the idea of a krell or bryston with these LsiMs... give'em a little sparkle.

That may very well be your ticket. Not so sure on the higher end amps though for an 8 ohm speaker with dual SVS's shoring up the bass regions. To really "hear" an amp, you have to present it with a load, not so sure your circumstances represent that.

Take your 2 channel for example. Betcha you can really hear what that Bat amp can do and that's because the Maggies present a good load to the amp. Highly doubt you'd hear the same differences driving a set of Monitor 70's with the same amp. Could be time to search out new speakers ?

The smaller nuances in music that we all crave aren't really there on HT material. Just too much going on in a HT movie soundtrack to even pay attention that deep. Unless the reason is dynamics/headroom, which maybe then as I said, a better matched speaker may be in order to compliment a higher end amp. Just my .02, but as it stands, receiver and amp seems to fit you better at this point.

WLDock

You have nice gear already...so it really is going to come down to YOUR ears! Anyway, here is some nice stuff.

Here is an Integra DHC-80-3 about 117 miles from you...and still under warranty. Maybe offer $1500?
http://delaware.craigslist.org/ele/4311294115.html

Then, even if these guys will ship not sure how you would feel about an expensive out of state CL purchase...but here are some good deals on 7 ch amps, if they are willing to sell just the amp:
https://austin.craigslist.org/ele/4317180507.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ele/4311883357.html
http://allentown.craigslist.org/ele/4312748930.html

Or, pick up a new Outlaw 7700 balanced amp for $2150: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html

I have no idea how the above would compare to $7500+ Pre-amps and amps. However, If you can make out for about $3000 for a PRE & 7 Ch Amp or under I would say you WIN! Only an AVR and lower cost used older amp could top the price-to-performance.

falconcry72

tonyb wrote: »

...Not so sure on the higher end amps though for an 8 ohm speaker with dual SVS's shoring up the bass regions. To really "hear" an amp, you have to present it with a load, not so sure your circumstances represent that...

So first you tell me the Rotel is my weak link, and now you're telling me I won't be able to hear a difference with a better amp???

You're not a schizoid, are you? jk

and i'm def sticking with the LSiMs for a while.

falconcry72

WLDock wrote: »

You have nice gear already...so it really is going to come down to YOUR ears! ...

Would it not come down to MY ears if I did not have nice gear already? I kid, I kid... but yes, I do tend to experiment/evaluate/compare/repeat from time to time.

Thanks for digging up the ads... I saw that 80.3 the other day..

rdb2001

falconcry72 wrote: »

Would it not come down to MY ears if I did not have nice gear already? I kid, I kid... but yes, I do tend to experiment/evaluate/compare/repeat from time to time.

Thanks for digging up the ads... I saw that 80.3 the other day..

Like you, I could not live without XT32 in my HT. Once I heard what it did to my system and my subs, I was amazed. What is your budget, if I may ask?

falconcry72

rdb2001 wrote: »

Like you, I could not live without XT32 in my HT. Once I heard what it did to my system and my subs, I was amazed. What is your budget, if I may ask?

3k max and I'd have to be pretty stoked about it. 2500 would be better.

Thorton

That's a difficult choice. Audyssey XT32 with Sub EQ HT is the cat's meow and lives up to the hype. I can't comment on the implementation difference with XT32 on AVR's vs. Pre/Pros, However, I could not be happier my Marantz Pre/Pro with XT32. Sub EQ is also very good eq'ing 2 subs.

I don't know if I'd spend the extra coin on a Bryston or Krell amp for only HT purposes and hook it up to an AVR. For HT only, I'd probably buy the AVR first (since it's considerably cheaper) and see if it's a significant improvement over your 8003. If it's not, dump it and go pre/pro xt32. Based on the outcome above, you can decide if you want to further improve with the amp.

pearsall001

falconcry72 wrote: »

So first you tell me the Rotel is my weak link, and now you're telling me I won't be able to hear a difference with a better amp???

You're not a schizoid, are you? jk

and i'm def sticking with the LSiMs for a while.

I have no problems at all stating that the Rotel RMB-1095 monster of an amp you have is more than capable of breathing life into your speakers. That RMB-1095 wouldn't have any problems with pretty much anything you would throw at it. Just pick up a nice used Rotel RMB-1075 for the surrounds, keep the Marantz (excellent piece by the way). This way you have extra amplification if you ever expand from a 7.1 system. Just food for thought.

polkfarmboy

A power amp and pre is the only way, no receiver can touch a setup like that. I have tried with amps through the Anthem mrx and a lesser amp with the D2 pre wins.

rpf65

Just to throw this out there; Have you by any chance considered any of the new Anthem's The MRX 310 doesn't have pre-outs, but the MRX 510 does, and can be had at Audiophile liquidators for $1300.

mantis

Integra DHC80.3 with a B&K 200.7 is the way to go. Bryston is pretty bad **** but I'm no fan of running some channels off an amp and others with receivers built in or different amps for surrounds. If you like Bryston which I'm a huge fan I suggest the 9BSST2. Bryston amps are about as good as it gets dollar for dollar. I have yet to hear a more powerful clean sound fully dynamic amp at Brystons price points that I would say was better.
I don't however see any issues with the Rotel RMB1095. It's a monster of an amp and has crazy amounts of clean powerful power. It's a very good sounding amp and hard to run out of gas which I never was able no matter what I hooked up to it.
If your hell bent on a new Auto Calibration, just get the Integra DHC80.3 and call it a day man.

WLDock

falconcry72 wrote: »

Would it not come down to MY ears if I did not have nice gear already?

Nope! If you had crappy gear most would suggest you upgrade. :biggrin:
However, you have a $2600 msrp Pre and a $2000 msrp amp that many of us would love to have. You state that you want to upgrade but did not really say what you were missing or dislike about the current rig besides the lack of XT32. Maybe try a new Pre and see what that does then decide if the Rotel is not working out?

Heck, I would not mind trying out you gear if you decide to sell....but, I've been wanting to try XT32 myself...especially now that I will finally have a dedicated LFE sub...But, I plan to try a low cost Onkyo 818 AVR to see how that works out.