Totally Overwhelmed but have some Ideas, please help with A/V Receiver Choice

F1nut

The DSW subs are aimed at HT while the MircoPro subs are aimed at music.

OMG

F1nut, that is exactly the kind of information I need. Thanks.

OMG

There is a micropro3000 for 900 new on ebay. A DSW660Prowi right now refurbished from the Polk ebay site for $379 with Free Shipping. That is hard to pass up. Should I pull the trigger on the DSWPro660 at that price? I could probably sell it and get a nice chunk of my money back if it turned out to be horrible which I doubt it will be.

drummer86

I think it'd be hard to pass on that 660 at what seems to be a great price. As you said, if you don't like it you can likely recoup most of your costs. You certainly won't find anything new that would beat its performance without bumping up a few hundred bucks.

drummer86

Maybe DSkip can offer better insight since he had one of the micropros but I still can't see it beating out the VTF-15 even at that price.

OMG

The problem is I read reviews. One pro reviewer said the VTF was great for music (which is very good) but is a little weak for very low lows in HT applications. I probably shouldn't be concerned with one review. The micropro had issues mentioned as well that scares me. I haven't heard anythiing bad (or missed it) that gave DSWPro660 bad comments. And the price really is attractive. And cfrizz likes them!

drummer86

Like I said, at that price you can't really go wrong with the DSW660. I have the VTF-15's little brother and I can assure you it's no slouch with the super low notes in HT. There's a member here running the VTF-15 with Rti speakers. Inspector 24. I'm sure he can let you know how they do with the low notes.

msg

I've been speaking with HSU regarding my room and sub needs and they're recommending two VTF-2 MK4's, one VTF-15H, or two VTF-3 MK4's for best output and smoothest response for music.

I was speaking with another guy earlier this week regarding a B&K amp, and we got to talking about systems and subs, and he sings the high praise for the Martin Logan Depth or Descent, citing a few music examples and how all other subs he's tried for music simply did not match his experience with the ML.
http://www.martinlogan.com/product-list.php#subwoofers

I still need to check out the SVS stuff. I hear good things about a pair of the PB12NSD with 703's.

Too many choices (even with budget constraints) not enough audition opportunities...

drummer86

I'd love to have a second VTF2 to smooth things out even more. What an awesome sub for my room and setup.

OMG

The auditioning part is difficult. I'll have to call Abt before heading over. They have a huge selection of equipment but will have to sharpen their pencil a bit if I am to purchase the Elite SC 77 through them. They were on sale and as I was walking out, the salesman told me he can let it go for even less - $1,666. I see them all over for $1,400 to $1,500. That is still a lot of money.

OMG

Thanks MSG, I'll head over to Best Buy. They have the Magnolia Room with their higher end products - Definitive, B&W and Martin Logan so I could probably hear the sub you mentioned. Nice thing about that place too is they have a tablet on the wall that lets you select any of the speakers you want to hear with subs and all the different AV receivers.

I'm somewhat leaning towards the Elite SC 77 or Yamaha RXA2030. Both have tons of pluses like apps and internet source content. The Yamaha touts its most current DAC's Sabre EEE or something like that. Elite SC 77 touts the D amplification and how little noise is heard when blasting it or at low levels. You can tell I'm not high tech but these features are appealing.

OMG

Do most people attach the Banana end jacks for the speakers or do they attach the copper wire around the pole and screw the nut down on it? One Youtube video said any extra connections like the banana ends degrade the signal slightly.

cfrizz

If you are in the habit of always switching out speakers get the banana plugs, if not bare wire will do the trick. As far as degrading the sound, I doubt that you would be able to hear it unless you have the hearing of a German Shepard. ;-)

I prefer clean connections so I would do bananas. However my RTAs don't take them so I have them on spades.

msg

drummer86 wrote: »

I'd love to have a second VTF2 to smooth things out even more. What an awesome sub for my room and setup.

Hey Drum, how's your room laid out, anyway? just for ref. maybe you mentioned it earlier and I missed it.

OMG

Thanks birdsdes1012 although my kids may know more about those things than I do.

cfrizz, thanks a lot. I think once the speakers are hooked up, they will stay hooked up. Do sub's have the same speaker wire and connections? Lastly, what is the proper wire size? 14 16 gague?

cfrizz

All you need is one IC from the sub to the receiver/prepro sub input.

drummer86

msg wrote: »

Hey Drum, how's your room laid out, anyway? just for ref. maybe you mentioned it earlier and I missed it.

Room is about 13'x18' with open doorways in the back to a foyer and dining room. It's a living room first, listening room/HT second, but I'm mostly happy with what I get out of it.

OMG

Thanks cfrizz

msg

drummer86 wrote: »

Room is about 13'x18' with open doorways in the back to a foyer and dining room. It's a living room first, listening room/HT second, but I'm mostly happy with what I get out of it.

yeah, that's a nice space. do you feel that the VTF-2 Mk4 does a pretty good job for music and HT?
I'm curious about the use of 2 subwoofers, and what one gains in doing so, and how this is different than running front speakers full range as well as a sub, which is supposed to be bad, apparently, causing "double bass", with nodes fighting each other and causing sloppy sound? http://www.ecoustics.com/articles/set-speakers-small-receiver-setup/

can discuss the potential conflicts in a sep thread so as not to sidejack, but still relevant to this thread I think is the use of 2 subs with bookshelf speakers vs a single, and how much sub is enough.

tonyb

When doing research, you'll have to wade threw the junk. You will always find conflicting articles on everything audio related.

How much sub is enough ?

Loaded question, but in general that depends on individual preference and the size of the room.

msg

tonyb wrote: »

When doing research, you'll have to wade threw the junk. You will always find conflicting articles on everything audio related.
How much sub is enough ?
Loaded question, but in general that depends on individual preference and the size of the room.

maaaaan, I KNOW! it's crazy, I have literally no experience with this level of home audio, and so much of what I read is written so authoritatively (even a real word?) that it's easy to buy into if not having the opportunity listen for oneself and discuss experiences with others. I need to find some local audio group or something, some way to get some exposure and to get some sort of real experience with all the things we talk about here.

some people say you can never have too much sub. sales tactic?
do bigger or more subs always just work more efficiently?
or is it simply wasteful after a certain point?

again, not to threadjack, but I think OMG is going to have the same questions when chosing the sub for his system.

tonyb

Again, personal preference dictates but in general, the bigger the room the bigger the sub needed to pressurize that room. You also want a sub that can dig deeper than your speakers. For instance, it would make no sense to add a PSW10 sub to a pair of RTIA9's. Follow ?

Also, it matters in what you want the sub to do....HT...Music....both ? Many choices out there and some are better acclimated for certain use....while others can kick **** in any application.

msg

yup, makes sense.

Erik Tracy

And sometimes too much information and too much thinking leads to paralysis.

Sure, do your homework, make an informed purchase, and spend your money wisely.

But - audio is a hobby - never think that a component you buy today is the one and only you'll ever buy.

It ain't like marriage - much easier to move on to something different or better :cheesygrin:

msg

haha, yeah, that's good for perspective
as long as you're not buying junk or paying too much to begin with.

tonyb

...and like marriage and audio, making an informed, well thought out choice in either will be easier on your wallet down the road.

Ever hear the expression..."It's cheaper to keep her" ? Works for audio too.

OMG

I love all the discussion whether directed at me or expanding into other sidebars. I'm gaining knowledge from all the posts. Please keep it coming.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

The trick to researching audio is finding someone who has similar tastes as you that also has enough experience in the hobby to speak rather universally. Hell, look at our "senior" members. Not one of them has an identical rig. Most agree on what sounds good and what doesn't, but getting to your own audio nirvana is a journey only you can make. I personally direct much of my questioning to marvda since he has run so many things with his own Usher's and figured out what works and what doesn't. We also have similar tastes in sound, so it makes it easy to look at his recommendations and feel more comfortable about trying something blind.

I don't trust any reviews at Amazon or Crutchfield or whatever store front you may find. I trust the opinions of a handful of guys here because I've talked to them personally and I know their experience/expectation levels. When I purchased my 845 monoblocks, I think I phoned about a half dozen guys on the forum and got their input before pulling the trigger on them. I'm glad I did since I had a lot of good feedback telling me to go for it, an action I don't regret in the least.

Smart man ^^^^

Erik Tracy

tonyb wrote: »

...and like marriage and audio, making an informed, well thought out choice in either will be easier on your wallet down the road.

Ever hear the expression..."It's cheaper to keep her" ? Works for audio too.

All I'm saying is everyone starts somewhere and for most of us in this hobby, we move on as we learn.

Don't get stuck in indecision by over analyzing....as the saying goes $#%* or get off the pot...

drummer86

My understanding is that the primary purpose of adding a 2nd sub serves to smooth out the bass response in the room rather than increase overall SPL, though that may be a secondary purpose for some.

As far as researching goes, knowledge is power, but understand that you're collecting OPINIONS on a very subjective topic. You don't know the experience that the reviewer has or whether or not their preferences are the same as yours. I personally don't like the sound of B&W speakers, but a good friend of mine loves his. Doesn't mean they're bad speakers just that they're not for me. Also why almost every "Which speakers should I buy" thread on here boils down to "this is what we prefer, but you need to decide for yourself with your ears."