Your Top Pet Peeves

LuSh
LuSh Posts: 887
edited February 2004 in 2 Channel Audio
What myths bug you when talking about Hi Fidelity with friends, family or forums you see online?

Mine include:

1. Source isn't the most important factor when dealing with stereo equipment.

2. Watt's....its totally laughable to me, I'd like to also say that distortion rating's make me laugh when somebody brings them up. Actually come to think of it, spec's in general, the bit rate on DAC's instead of who makes the DAC's etc etc etc...

3. Quality speaker stands. How people find ways around them, avoid them or don't think they need them.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Okay I'll bite ...

    If source isn't important and distortion isn't important then what is ?

    Maybe I should see if I can plug my kids $29 walkman into my 40 year old, 15 watt Kenwood receiver that has 1% THD that I've been using for a door stop in the cellar using the spaghetti RCA cords supplied with every piece of new gear that comes out.

    That should do the job, right ? I mean as long as they're wired to some Polks with coat hangers then hey, what else is there to think about ?
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,543
    edited February 2004
    PW,

    Re-read Lush's post. He thinks that the source IS important. However, I think he'll find alot of folks who think the speakers are the most important part. I think all parts are important because your set up is only as good as the weakest link, including cables.

    As for distortion ratings, just about any amp/receiver these days that costs over $500.00 (random price point) has distortion levels not worth concerning yourself with. The comment on watts is unclear if it refers to watts used (power requirement) or output watts. IMO, watts used isn't that important, output watts are. Specs are a guideline, the real test is listening.

    Speaker stands? Who needs them, buy floorstanders. ;)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
    People who discount others experiences and opinions as myths...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2004
    1. The thinking that your component has to be $5000 or more to be considered "worthy" what a scam.

    2. People who "chase their tails" spending big dollars on worthless tweaks, trying to achieve just the right sound when they simply need to re-look their base components.

    3. Waaaaay too much emphasis on specifications. If it sounds good to you, it is good.

    4. People forgetting the golden rule of audio: Speakers are the most important purchase, choose wisely and get what you want the first time; don't compromise on your speakers.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2004
    I think my wallet is the most important part of the process to take part in ANY of this insanity :D
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited February 2004
    What myths bug me when talking about Hi Fidelity with friends, family, or forums I see online?

    1. Bose is the best.

    2. People who don't understand that I actually sit in my chair and listen to music on my system. Let me explain: Turning on the "stereo" and doing **** around the house with music in the background is how most people use their stereo. That is why a Sony boom-box is good enough for most people. (these same people think upgrading to a Bose Lifestyle music system is a grand idea)

    3. People who say they have "surround sound" when all they did was buy a $250 HTIB system from Best Buy, set the subwoofer in the corner, the center channel on the TV, and the other speakers in some random, asymmetrical fashion. I've spend countless hours positioning my speakers for what I can determine to be optimum locations.

    4. When a guest goes down into my basement (the room my fiancee & I call the Home Theater) and ask why I have so many speakers. (there are only 7, sheesh)

    5. People who just don't get it....
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by F1nut
    Speaker stands? Who needs them, buy floorstanders. ;)

    People who don't think stand mount speakers can sound BIG! ;)

    Or think that floorstanders are superior to stand mounts.
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited February 2004
    Source: Some people just don't understand "garbage in, garbage out" no matter how many times I tell them.

    Watts: I hate it when they talk about their 'incredible' 500w speakers without knowing their receiver is only 50w/ch lol. Some people I know think their system is superior because of high power rating on their cheap amp or receiver. My 35w/ch tube power can piss and crap all over their system.

    BS: Those who tell you they have 'friends' with way better systems than yours and they don't even know what they're talking about. One guy told me his friend had speakers all over the front wall for superior stereo imaging. Some of the brands he mentioned are Infinity and Bose LMAO. Sometims they just underestimate our audio knoowledge. I don't know about you but a lot of times I play dumb and just say 'yeah', 'that's cool', etc when people are trying to tell me about how good their system is. I don't feel like explaining stuff because they just don't get it or because they try to argue with me.

    Tiny speakers: I know a few people who tell me my speakers are too big and that tiny ones are 'in' and have better sound/dynamics. These are also people who don't know how to set up a 2ch system. Again, they just don't get the point when I try to explain. I tell them it's simple physics. The larger surface area will give more impact and volume.

    Ha ha, I have a better format: At one time this guy at work told me to look in his bag because he bought something special and have already started a collection of them at home. I looked in his bag and saw a few 5.1 DVD audio. He talked about how cool and different the sound is and that it's superior to CD's. The **** doesn't even have a 5.1 receiver. He has a pro-logic receiver hooked up with the L/R RCA cable from the DVD player. He only owns 2 speakers also.

    Soundstage: I just gave up on this one. They don't know what the hell I'm talking about.



    Wow, I have more but my fingers are tired from typing.

    Maurice
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2004
    watts posted in store ads. claiming 500watts, 650watts, or some even claim as much as 1000watts. huh? then you read the fine print... it's actually 100wpc = 500w. ****.

    Another peeve.. those people who only use Monster cable products and think EVERYTHING else is inferior to it. Same with Bose.

    People who are just not open to other brands, ideas, thoughts... they have their mind made up without even trying this or that after i suggest they get rid of their HTIB.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited February 2004
    Almost all mid-fi systems...might advertise 100wpc but a more accurate count would be 15-20 wpc when all channels are driven. Most of these systems/receivers can be found at Best Buy, Circuit city etc....the powersupplies can't meet the demands of they're claims.

    The distortion rating's are all hilarious...a great deal of amp's over $500 suffer from terrible distortion. Not only when the volume goes up, but sometimes it's even worse when the volume is down. Ever hear a sound system that sounds "better" when the volume is up? Some systems claim a .006% rating but what they forget to tell you is that the system can get up to 5-10% distortion during actual use. And that's not only when the system is "cranked" but alot of times when the systems signal is below the systems harmonics.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Question ...

    Wouldn't all receivers by their nature at best qualify as being Mid-Fi ?
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    Question ...

    Wouldn't all receivers by their nature at best qualify as being Mid-Fi ?

    No
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited February 2004
    tell Bob Carver that his Sunfire Theater Grand III is Mid-fi.....

    I do get your point though, and I'd agree that most recs. are more of a compromise than going with an all out seperates system.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Shack,

    Okay ... which ones aren't then and why ?

    GMorris,

    The Sunfire TG III is a preamp/processor ... not a receiver. So at least in that respect one would think it's on the right track.

    I doubt ANY manufacturer would want their gear classified as Mid-Fi per se as even Bose !? has brought legal action against some who have tried to imply that their gear was not top shelf. This however is a different issue.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited February 2004
    You may be right about the TG III, I thought it was a receiver...

    I was trying to come up with an example.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited February 2004
    http://www.sunfire.com/receiver.htm

    It is the Ultimate rec. from Sunfire...
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    There may in fact be receivers out there that are not mid-fi.

    Sunfire (Carver) does make a receiver, whether it's mid-fi or hi-fi I suppose is in the eye of the beholder as it were.

    I am clearly not an audio/videophile but there are those out there who would say that none of Sunfire's gear is Hi-Fi. Again their opinion, not necessarily mine.

    I guess the real question is how does one differentiate between hi & mid fi ?

    To my way of thinking, albeit possibly off the wall in at least the minds of some, the higher the fi the less of a foot print the gear makes on the sound from it's original recording.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • lord_byron
    lord_byron Posts: 23
    edited February 2004
    I thought this was pretty interesting: Warning, its a pdf file and its like 10 megs...


    http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/TenAudioLies.pdf
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Good article ...

    The real problem with the truths or lies therein is that this leaves no one anywhere as being a trustworthy source of review of individual audio or video components which is a real shame since some of us have the time to constantly be reviewing these for our own purposes but lots of us don't.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2004
    Okay ... which ones aren't then and why ?

    Rotel RSX-1065
    NAD T773
    B&K AVR 507
    Sunfire Ultimate

    All could be considered Hi-Fi IMO. Quality of components, performance, etc...

    I also believe and argument could be made that the flagships from the mass market mfgs like Denon and Pioneer could be considered as at least entry level Hi-Fi.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2004
    I guess the real question is how does one differentiate between hi & mid fi ?
    There is no definition. There used to be Hi-fi...and everything else...and Hi-fi included almost everything having to do with audio. Radios, phonographs, etc., were the everything else. Hi-Fi, Mid-Fi, Lo-Fi are all totally subjective based on who is doing the defining.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Presactly my point and therein lies the problem ...

    Although one would like to think this doesn't apply to all, it would appear that there is at least some group of audiophiles, self appointed or otherwise that while they'd have you believe that it's their listening that drives the contents of their reviews about specific components that at least sometimes it's driven more by a variety of semi meaningless subjective criteria whether that be who the manufacturer is, the price of the equipment, the weight of the equipment, some particular technology that's been around since the dark ages of sound reproduction as opposed to one that was recently developed or simply who's advertising on their web site or in their magazine.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited February 2004
    We seem to have gotten off the original topic....

    Another peev of mine is the over use of the Norah Jones CD in equipment reviews. 9 out of 10 reviewers mention this disc.

    After reading countless reviews with this CD, I went out and copied a coworkers Norah Jones CD. I must admit, I like it. Even on my modest Onkyo rec. + Polk Audio R30 system, this CD is great. It is superbly recorded, and the image of Ms. Jones' voice is impressive.

    I'm just sick of reading about it in reviews.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    Presactly my point and therein lies the problem ...
    What problem?...Listen first and buy what you like...not what someone says that you "SHOULD" like.
    it would appear that there is at least some group of audiophiles, self appointed or otherwise that while they'd have you believe that it's their listening that drives the contents of their reviews about specific components
    The only value of a review IMO is to get an overview of a product that you are interested in and might want to take a look at(to purchase or just general knowledge). A quick thumbnail of features, possible issues, etc...
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    No argument ...

    However it would be nice if one could at least use the reviews to pare down the candidates to a reasonable number to start with. Even if one is near a fairly large area of population it's tough enough to get a listen to all the receivers out there that make the initial cut of wanted features list, never mind how far and wide one has to go to demo the variety of amps or preamps for example.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by gmorris
    We seem to have gotten off the original topic....

    Another peev of mine is the over use of the Norah Jones CD in equipment reviews. 9 out of 10 reviewers mention this disc.

    After reading countless reviews with this CD, I went out and copied a coworkers Norah Jones CD. I must admit, I like it. Even on my modest Onkyo rec. + Polk Audio R30 system, this CD is great. It is superbly recorded, and the image of Ms. Jones' voice is impressive.

    I'm just sick of reading about it in reviews.

    I actually don't like this CD - Terribly overrated IMHO.

    There now...I have a pet peeve...the overblown and overhyped Norah Jones CD.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • kingkip
    kingkip Posts: 401
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by lord_byron
    I thought this was pretty interesting: Warning, its a pdf file and its like 10 megs...


    http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/TenAudioLies.pdf



    Byron where did you find this article, seems like a pretty good publication.

    To add my two cents...

    Isn't the golden rule of Hi-fi listen to your ears? If you think receiver A is better than B, it probably is even if your friend had B and thinks it is better than A (he is right too by the way). Same goes for biwire, biamp, tube vs transistor etc... Sometimes we all take this a little to seriously because for many of us this is more than just a hobby (borderline OCD) so when someone tells you their friend's system rocks because he has a wall of 500 watt speakers, we tend to get our collective feathers ruffled.

    For the average, "I want surround sound for $99" person, $99 is more than enough to spend and be happy. Whether or not they are getting the true DTS ES matrix 6.1 experience makes no difference to them. But when they talk to you, true believer, they know how deep your interest is and more than likely respect your opinion and so they want to impress you with the limited knowledge they have. Sometimes they just end up sounding like jerks.

    Bottom line: If being an audiophile makes you happy and constantly tweeking/upgrading, reading forum posts etc is how you have fun, great. That is probably why we are all here.
    There are two ways to argue with women. Both of them are wrong.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,640
    edited February 2004
    1 - Brand Name Junkies, granted I hate some brands but because I have heard them...........................
    2 - Receivers.............
    3 - HiFi Junkies................(mine is better than yours because it costed 5,000!
    4 - Bose lovers
    5 - HTIB
    6 - Mini Systems
    7 - SUR-OUND SUH-OUND
    8 - HEADPHONES!!!!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited February 2004
    Sid, is there any reason in particular you listed headphones, and in ALL CAPS?! Is this something you hate, but understand why others may like them, or everyone who has every placed a pair of cans on their head needs to die now?

    The only true pet-peeve I have developed thus far is when someone who doesn't know a damn thing about anything proceeds to comment on your system and what you are doing wrong with it. I welcome comments from people with experience and knowledge. I freely acknowledge that I have much to learn about most everything in life, especially about audio. But when you come and tell me I am a moron for so-and-so and my system would sound better because of so-and-so, and you are completely wrong, go take a hike. For example; one of my roommates smarter friends came over, and told me that my sub would "sound better" if the port was pointed towards the corner, not the middle of the room. You know, where all the air is. He reasoned that this is where the sound came from. Okay, I do not have the Bose Acoustimass system. Those principles do not universally apply to all subwoofers ever. I would argue that the sound from my sub is produced from the driver. Not from the driver imbedded deeply within the mathematically achieved Bose maze of a subwoofer. Yes, nice to just meet you now as well, and thanks for criticizing me. Get out of my apartment.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited February 2004
    One Pet Peeve for me?

    Threads like this.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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