LED Bulbs and EMI

skrol

I know that there are other threads looking at power line noise and the use of quality outlets, power cords, conditioners, etc to mitigate. However, we also should consider the common things that we do in our home which may add electrical noise.

With the new government phase out of many incandescent light bulbs the alternative is CFL, LED and halogen. Over the past several years I have been swapping out my incandescent bulbs with these types. More recently I have started using LED as non-name brand have come available at almost affordable prices.

There are a few places around the house where they seem like they would be ideal. One is my outside lights, which burn all night. I have also had issues with incandescent filaments breaking easily on any windy day. They have worked out great, though I did just have an LED bulb go bad after 6 months of service.

Another seemingly ideal application was my garage door opener. Again, even with heavy duty bulbs, I get broken filaments. I tried CFL but on cold days they take too long to brighten. Then I tried an LED as they brighten instantly. Then I started having trouble with the remote. At first the light bulb change didn’t occur to me as I thought the CFL would have been the noisy one. However, I replaced the LED with an incandescent bulb and all was good.

After a little research, I found that the power converters in the bulbs can be a great source of EMI as they use pulse power supplies to regulate power while reducing heat. Of course these power supplies are inherently noisy. Cheap no-name bulbs, even though they are stamped with the FCC approval, tend to have inadequate EMI filtering compared to name brands like Philips and Sylvania. You can find test to demonstrate all over the internet.

http://www.ledbenchmark.com/faq/LED-interference-issues.html

http://community.lighting.philips.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/4094-4810/KD08%201109_EMC%20LED%20Lamps%20v1.pdf

Ideally, there should be a central power supply to convert to DC and provide good EMI filtering rather than all these individual power supplied which don’t have the space available for proper filtering or compromises are made to reduce cost. Since these LED bulbs are commonly being retro-fitted into systems designed for incandescent bulbs, where not much care is needed, it will be interesting to see how EMI issues develop when more and more noisy (cheap) LED bulbs interact when they are installed in a common system.

Bottom line, be careful where you use LED bulbs and the quality of bulb that you choose.

Stan

CoolJazz

As I've been saying continuously, you should never allow the hazmat (cfl) bulbs to endanger your family and possessions. Those nasty little power supplies, made to extremely cheap price points, crammed up in a fixture thats advised on the packaging not to do is a horrible idea. Not to mention the problem of the RFI. Remember, they are attached to the power lines directly.

This goes to the power in the house as a whole....switch mode supplies are starting to be in everything. First, we heard of computers wiping out radio reception, then stuff in the kitchen messing up radio and TV. Now it's all over the place. Even in your audio system. To relate it back to audio, that close connection there and the pollution is a big key to better audio quality or not!

But the light bulb base minimum spacing and extremely, extremely hot placement on a cheap as possible (or less) components supply is a disaster waiting to happen. Just don't let it be you! I don't let them in my house and never will and have also ruled them out in the work place.

Interesting and scary to hear the LED's are creating the same issues. Once the hazmat bulbs are made illegal, which will happen sooner or later, then if they keep preventing us from using the common sense filaments bulbs, we'll be forced into doing a lot of the high dollar LED's.

CJ

CoolJazz

How should I clean up a broken CFL (Hazmat) bulb?

Because CFLs contain a small amount of mercury, EPA recommends the following clean-up and disposal guidelines:

1. Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room
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Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.
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Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.
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Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
2. Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces
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Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
•
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass pieces and powder.
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Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag.
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Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.
3. Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug:
•
Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
•
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.
•
If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.
•
Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.
4. Clean-up Steps for Clothing, Bedding, etc.:
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If clothing or bedding materials come in direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from inside the bulb that may stick to the fabric, the clothing or bedding should be thrown away. Do not wash such clothing or bedding because mercury fragments in the clothing may contaminate the machine and/or pollute sewage.
•
You can, however, wash clothing or other materials that have been exposed to the mercury vapor from a broken CFL, such as the clothing you are wearing when you cleaned up the broken CFL, as long as that clothing has not come into direct contact with the materials from the broken bulb.
•
If shoes come into direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from the bulb, wipe them off with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels or wipes in a glass jar or plastic bag for disposal.
5. Disposal of Clean-up Materials
•
Immediately place all clean-up materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area for the next normal trash pickup.
•
Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.
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Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states do not allow such trash disposal. Instead, they require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.
6. Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming
•
The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window before vacuuming.
•
Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.


For more information about compact fluorescent bulbs, visit http://www.energystar.gov/cfls
For more information about compact fluorescent bulbs and mercury, visit http://www.energystar.gov/mercury
EPA is continually reviewing its clean-up and disposal recommendations for CFLs to ensure that the Agency presents the most up-to-date information for consumers and businesses.

pitdogg2

I'm so in violation of 100% of that clean up procedure:sad: Compact Fluorescents probably have 1/10 the mercury that old T12 tubes had back in the day and what did we do with them??? Broke them up to fit our garbage cans.

skrol

I am sure everyone follows these instructions whenever they break a fluorescent bulb.

skrol

With my step into the rabbit hole of separates, I saw the impact of light bulb induced EMI first hand. I had noticed a light buzzing coming from the speakers and figured it was and issue with my Parasound amp from the early 90's. When I checked it on the bench, it was clean. I later figured out that it was caused my a lamp with a CFL that was near the interconnect between the pre-amp and amp.

disneyjoe7

I like the engery savings in using CFL's but don't like the noise or the fact I feel we all F'd later about this Mercury issue....

Speedskater

I remember way back in 1983/85 at a Christmas party one of my E.E. friends just got a job at GE Nela Park Research Center. He was telling us about this new florescent light that would fit into a normal bulb socket. Now CFL's are reaching the end of their product life span.
But anyway some years ago, Consumer Report magazine measured the Mercury is several CFL bulbs and it was a lot less than the publicized value.

Speedskater

Back to 'EMI', almost any product that you purchase now that plugs into a AC outlet has the potential to emit EMI/RFI. Even light bulbs have little SMPS built into them. Almost all wall-warts have SMPS's. Now there are rules about allowable interference, But in some parts of the world the rules are not enforced.

skrol

What you say is true. Things like line filtering / conditioning, cable shielding and cable layout are becoming more essential.

westmassguy

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I'm so in violation of 100% of that clean up procedure:sad: Compact Fluorescents probably have 1/10 the mercury that old T12 tubes had back in the day and what did we do with them??? Broke them up to fit our garbage cans.

Absolutely. When I worked in NYC you could go to the trash or compactor area of any large office building, and see remnants of the phosphor powder everywhere.

F1nut

Here's the answer to the gov't knows best BS. I will never have CFL, LED or halogen bulbs in my house.

http://www.brightlights-inc.com/

zane77

I just saw some information about these new incandescents a few days ago.

CoolJazz

Outstanding!! I've already sent their info to friends.

A store just a few blocks from my normal route to work has them. I'm going to stop and buy some today. Make sure I support them.

Great tip F1...thanks!

CJ

zingo

"Rough Service Bulbs" There's a huge loophole if I've ever seen one; not that I'm complaining...