Hypothetical - adding bookshelf complements to RTi10's

msg

The RTi10's I ordered seemed to be loosening up a bit and seem to be getting better. I'm still evaluating. I think it's a combination of some system adjustments and probably just use. I'm back to using my wimpy Pioneer VSX-521-K while I shop for the just-right-porridge of a receiver. Thinking about the Pioneer SC-1222-K, as they seem readily available for a decent price. Anyway, I'm surprised at how good things are sounding with the combination of the Sound Retriever (S.RTV) function, and some Tone adjustments in Stereo Mode. I worked from home yesterday and just left them on all day on the local classical station, streaming HD through a Squeezebox. I was surprised to see how much movement the speakers were seeing. I never realized how much that type of music could actually work a speaker. So, I was pleased and a bit impressed. Annnnd, inevitably, I wanted more sound!

So, here's my question - If I were to add a second set of bookshelf speakers to the pair of RTi10's for some more mid-range fill, which would be better?

RTi6
RTi4
TSi200

Specific Questions:
I've wondered whether the 5-1/4 array in the RTi12/RTiA9 outperforms the single 6-1/2 in the RTi10/RTiA7, so I'm wondering whether a pair of 5-1/4 would be better than a single 6-1/2, which would put me into the TSi line. My concern is for the build difference between lines.

Second, I would think I would put these in the back for a 4 corner arrangement, but if I had them all in the front and it was too bright, could/should I disconnect the tweeter in the bookshelf speakers in this arrangement?

While I'm at it, I might as well get the input on the center:
CSi3 or CSi5?
-or-
CS1 or CS2?

Thoughts, comments, questions, please?

tonyb

csi5 for the center....

The other stuff.....your avoiding the main problem, power. The 10's can spank out some midrange if you feed them some power and I'm not talking a receiver either. You need an amp and a receiver with pre-outs. By adding more bookshelf speakers to the receiver you have now, your taking away power from the 10's....which is already under powering them. Your main focus should be on the power before deciding on other speakers.

mhardy6647

hmmm... spanked midrange, eh?

msg

Thanks Tony. welllllll, not exactly avoiding it - I didn't want to mention yet in case it doesn't work out, but I've been shopping/researching used/affordable amplifiers, and I'm supposed to be going to see an older B&K EX442 setup tonight with MC101 and tuner, so if this works out, I may be able to get myself into a 200wpc amp. Ideally, I'd like a 5ch amplifier, but I'll see where things lie after this little experiment. the current receiver doesn't have preouts, so I need to have that in place, too. but for now, if I pickup the B&K stuff, I'll try the speakers out with the preamp and amp tonight or tomorrow. I was reading some "historical" posts/reviews saying that the B&K sounds warm and tubey. I don't have a reference point, but it sounds like it's a step in the right direction and worth a shot. also considering the Emotiva XPA-2 for 300wpc, or trying to hold off for a 5ch Parasound HCA-2205.

understood on pulling power away from an already weak receiver to power the other speakers. if things work out with the amplifier and the Pioneer SC-1222-k, do you think 120wpc from the receiver will be okay for the center and bookshelfs? or will everything else seem unbalanced with the fronts amplified?

how much power do you think it'll take to adequately pull the sound out of the 10's and tame the highs? is that even going to happen with adding more power? I wasn't really particularly impressed with the difference from the 135w/ch from a new Class D Pioneer SC-75. I know more is generally better, but will 200wpc amplifier power bring them to life across the volume range?

Also, in discussions with the Polk Ebay store, they recommended bi-amping. what's the skinny on this. does it or doesn't it work? I think I'll just bridge 4 channels on a new receiver. kidding. kinda. no, really, just kidding

tonyb wrote: »

csi5 for the center....

The other stuff.....your avoiding the main problem, power. The 10's can spank out some midrange if you feed them some power and I'm not talking a receiver either. You need an amp and a receiver with pre-outs. By adding more bookshelf speakers to the receiver you have now, your taking away power from the 10's....which is already under powering them. Your main focus should be on the power before deciding on other speakers.

heheh, yeah? maybe? I don't know, what does that mean? hehe

mhardy6647 wrote: »

hmmm... spanked midrange, eh?

tonyb

A B&K amp or Parasound is a better match for the 10's than Emo. Also you need to look at your cables. One thing you have to realize is that once you start upgrading, you need to also upgrade the rest of the system in small steps as well to obtain maximum results.

Address your main problem first...power, then move on from there. Everything else is mute until that problem is solved.

msg

yes, this is what I've picked up here, but I'm also hearing of others having good results with other amps, though not necessarily specifically with the RTi or RTiA line. it's been difficult making all these decisions without the opportunity to audition any equipment.

I've been wondering whether it would just be best to suspend all current operations, return the RTi10's and start from scratch with a set of LSiM703's when I'm able to swing it.

are there any other amplifiers I might consider? what about Outlaw stuff?

tonyb wrote: »

A B&K amp or Parasound is a better match for the 10's than Emo. Also you need to look at your cables. One thing you have to realize is that once you start upgrading, you need to also upgrade the rest of the system in small steps as well to obtain maximum results.

Address your main problem first...power, then move on from there. Everything else is mute until that problem is solved.

tonyb

Haven't heard Outlaw amps so I can't say, but trust me on this one. If your set on sticking with the 10's, Parasound and B&k amps are the huckleberry for that line of speakers.

LSIM's are a more musical speaker, easier to drive, maybe more up your alley, I dunno. Only you can decide that one.

msg

hehe, huckleberry -- just reminded me of Val Kilmer in Tombstone -- okay, yeah, that's what I seem to be picking up, too. I'll keep that in mind.

another question - I see this term pretty often - "musical"
what exactly does this mean? do we have a glossary of terms around here anywhere?
I see reference sometimes to certain speakers and subs being more musical.


btw - and I'm trying to do this one thing at a time - regarding adding more speakers, what about a set of RTi8's as a complement? or should I stick with something more drivable from a 120w/ch AVR for my second set?

and do I typically want to stick with one particular line? not pull in from different lines, like the TSx, etc.?

Loud & Clear

msg wrote: »

I've been wondering whether it would just be best to suspend all current operations, return the RTi10's and start from scratch with a set of LSiM703's when I'm able to swing it.

I support this line of thinking. In my opinion trying to fix a speaker's sound means you don't particularly like the speaker. Messing around with wires and such never helped me make a speaker sound good. What I'm hearing you say is that you aren't happy with those speakers. Conversely, you will almost certainly like the sound of the LSiM line. Very musical.

Musical, to me, means fast, tight and articulate bass, a transparent open midrange, and a detailed high end that perhaps rolls off a touch at its highest frequencies. But musical will vary from person to person.

msg

thanks for this input L&C. I'm trying to take easy, but when I start working on a project, I usually find myself fully immersed in it until I get it to my satisfaction. this leads me to some impulsive decisions at times, unfortunately, especially when I'm having to go by reviews and input from others, not having the opportunity to see for myself. I'm no audiophile, but I know what I don't like when I hear it (or don't hear it). Ideally, I'd like to audition a bunch of different speakers and equipment until I find what I'm after, but that's unfortunately not quite practical in this case, and there's not much available to me locally on the used market it seems.

for now, I'm going to see where an amp puts me. the RTi10's were a good entry point for me, and I am beginning (just beginning) to develop a bit of a feel for where things stand in terms of what I'm actually going to need. at least, more so than 3 weeks ago. still though, I read someone on here say that "we've been at this for years and have spent a lot of time and money chasing perfection," or something to that effect - Tony, I think that might have been you on another thread I read can't remember.

I'm going to explore this "musical" business a bit further. LC - I see that you're using them in your home theater setup. frankly, I'm okay with a 3.2 home theater as well. actually, I'm really okay with a 2.1, hehe

those Wharfedales are BEAUTIFUL! how do they sound?


Speaking of music, you guys ever heard of Kishi Bashi? he's got a piece called Manchester from the Wild Honey Pie Studios Buzzsession he did. it's pretty unique stuff he does with violin and looping. currently on tour with Tall Tall Trees (Mike Savino), who does some wild stuff with a banjo. as a full band, they put on an insanely energetic show.

Kishi Bashi - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBctONb102o
Tall Tall Trees - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oElM7SEbHEc

Loud & Clear wrote: »

I support this line of thinking. In my opinion trying to fix a speaker's sound means you don't particularly like the speaker. Messing around with wires and such never helped me make a speaker sound good. What I'm hearing you say is that you aren't happy with those speakers. Conversely, you will almost certainly like the sound of the LSiM line. Very musical.

Musical, to me, means fast, tight and articulate bass, a transparent open midrange, and a detailed high end that perhaps rolls off a touch at its highest frequencies. But musical will vary from person to person.

Loud & Clear

msg wrote: »

thanks for this input L&C. I'm trying to take easy, but when I start working on a project, I usually find myself fully immersed in it until I get it to my satisfaction. this leads me to some impulsive decisions at times, unfortunately, especially when I'm having to go by reviews and input from others, not having the opportunity to see for myself. I'm no audiophile, but I know what I don't like when I hear it (or don't hear it). Ideally, I'd like to audition a bunch of different speakers and equipment until I find what I'm after, but that's unfortunately not quite practical in this case, and there's not much available to me locally on the used market it seems.

for now, I'm going to see where an amp puts me. the RTi10's were a good entry point for me, and I am beginning (just beginning) to develop a bit of a feel for where things stand in terms of what I'm actually going to need. at least, more so than 3 weeks ago. still though, I read someone on here say that "we've been at this for years and have spent a lot of time and money chasing perfection," or something to that effect - Tony, I think that might have been you on another thread I read can't remember.

I'm going to explore this "musical" business a bit further. LC - I see that you're using them in your home theater setup. frankly, I'm okay with a 3.2 home theater as well. actually, I'm really okay with a 2.1, hehe

those Wharfedales are BEAUTIFUL! how do they sound?


Speaking of music, you guys ever heard of Kishi Bashi? he's got a piece called Manchester from the Wild Honey Pie Studios Buzzsession he did. it's pretty unique stuff he does with violin and looping. currently on tour with Tall Tall Trees (Mike Savino), who does some wild stuff with a banjo. as a full band, they put on an insanely energetic show.

Kishi Bashi - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBctONb102o
Tall Tall Trees - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oElM7SEbHEc

Yeah, it's a process. I guess you have to learn what it is you're looking for before you can get what you're looking for. The RT - Reference Theater - line is excellent for what it was designed for. An external amplifier will get the best out of them. The recently defunct LSi line is another really nice sounding "musical" speaker. Various models are available on the used market for great bang-for-the-buck prices. Since you're getting an amp the LSi line becomes a viable option as well.

The Wharfedales excel in the areas that matter most to me, which I briefly outlined above. The midrange in particular is pretty magical. I had a chance to buy them at 50% off, as they were being replaced by the Jade line which is currently in production. I'd like to hear a pair of those some day as well.

msg

yeah, pretty crazy right now. too much input.

that sounds like a great way to get into some great equipment! congrats on that deal on the Wharfedales.
I don't know how I stumbled across this, but I found myself on the Legacy Audio site last night. have you seen these things?!? omgyaaaad. haha, if not, go have a look at the Helix.


okay, so I was able to pick up a B&K EX-442 amplifier last night. It looks like it might be one of their later models of this unit (whatever that may mean for its potency) as the board for the balanced inputs has a 1991 date on it. it's got Philips cans in it, and I read in a document of old equipment on their site that previous models had Hitachi or Toshiba cans. not sure how/whether this affects anything. it's in pretty nice shape, no gain controls or anything, but clean. the guy made me a nice little package deal on the Monitor 10's he was selling as well, because his wife was on him to get rid of stuff. I've been playing around with everything this afternoon.

First, the amp makes for pretty clean delivery on the RTi10's, however, doesn't seem to do much for taming the highs. again, it's reasonable with certain types of music, but with others, it's pretty uncomfortable after a while.

Second, I don't really understand what I'm supposed to experience musically in using a 200wpc. granted I haven't had a lot of time on this equipment, but I haven't experienced any profoundly audible difference the amp with the preouts through a Pioneer SC receiver and the RTi's. maybe a Parasound is different. maybe this is best with a preamp for. the B&K makes things cleaner to be certain, but doesn't add much discernible body to the music that I'm able to notice at this point. perhaps this is just it.

Third, with the same hardware connected, I connected the Monitor 10's. I've never seen or heard these before. wow. first off, I'm pretty impressed with how well this design works - two 6-1/2" drivers and the 10" radiator. really weird to me, but it works! I'm not sure which version speaker this is; not sure yet which tweeter it has. anyway, so I notice the bottom end seems to drop off a bit on the low low stuff, and not so much on the RTi10, but when I changed the fronts to small and the sub came in, it filled it right out, and I was hard pressed to heard the difference in performance between the Monitor 10 and the RTi10. this is not meant to be a review or any sort of real comparison, just reporting on my first impression. in fact, it works so well that I became aware that I had a surprised look on my face and shortly thereafter found myself wondering whether I even need the RTi10. they *are* growing on me, however. btw, I noticed that I was able to set the tone controls a bit closer to what I'm used to with the M10's - +2 on the treble instead of -2 or -4 with the RTi.

soooo, that's where things are right now, fellas. can't really make any decisions at this point, just wanted to report back with what's been going on. I think I need a break. I'm friggin' wiped out.

msg

meant to say, thanks, btw. I hate how I can't edit my posts for very long...

have you used any of the LSi stuff before, or did you just step in with the LSiM?

seriously wondering whether an LSiM703 with a nice sub will satisfy me.
or have I just caught the bug?

Loud & Clear wrote: »

Yeah, it's a process. I guess you have to learn what it is you're looking for before you can get what you're looking for. The RT - Reference Theater - line is excellent for what it was designed for. An external amplifier will get the best out of them. The recently defunct LSi line is another really nice sounding "musical" speaker. Various models are available on the used market for great bang-for-the-buck prices. Since you're getting an amp the LSi line becomes a viable option as well.

The Wharfedales excel in the areas that matter most to me, which I briefly outlined above. The midrange in particular is pretty magical. I had a chance to buy them at 50% off, as they were being replaced by the Jade line which is currently in production. I'd like to hear a pair of those some day as well.

Loud & Clear

I think the Monitor 10s are awesome. They should have a very full bottom end, so you might want to make sure that they're properly sealed. One method of checking the seal is to gently push the passive radiator in, and watch the 6 1/2" drivers; they should come forward and then slowly recede. Wood glue can be used to seal air leaks from the inside.

I've used the LSI7s & LSi9s. Both very nice although I prefer the 7s, as I perceived a muddiness to the 9s' bass.

Yeah, an amp has never made for a night-and-day difference in my setups either. More subtle. That's why it's just so important to find the right speakers. A really good pair of speakers will sound great with almost any decent solid state amp, in my experience.

Yes, I have seen the Legacy Audio site. The Aeris keeps me up at night.

AsSiMiLaTeD

It sounds to me like the rti10 sound isn't for you. If I were you I'd quit trying to squeeze water from a stone and move on to a different speaker. The LSi line is a step in the right direction, but the LSiM is even better. The LSiM703 is a very good speaker and I'd highly recommend you try that one out.

msg

Loud & Clear wrote: »

I think the Monitor 10s are awesome. They should have a very full bottom end, so you might want to make sure that they're properly sealed. One method of checking the seal is to gently push the passive radiator in, and watch the 6 1/2" drivers; they should come forward and then slowly recede. Wood glue can be used to seal air leaks from the inside.

I've used the LSI7s & LSi9s. Both very nice although I prefer the 7s, as I perceived a muddiness to the 9s' bass.

Yeah, an amp has never made for a night-and-day difference in my setups either. More subtle. That's why it's just so important to find the right speakers. A really good pair of speakers will sound great with almost any decent solid state amp, in my experience.

Yes, I have seen the Legacy Audio site. The Aeris keeps me up at night.

yes, I've spent some more time with the Monitor 10's and I'm really quite pleased with their sound. I was experimenting with running both the RTi10's and Monitor 10's side by side and comparing. I really just can't get over how well the Monitor 10's work for the way I'm using speakers. Not to say that the RTi10's suck. They're growing on me, too, but I just can't get past the highs for music. it's brutal, and I don't really want to spend a ton on amps just to see (can't, really).

I did notice by chance that the drivers do in fact behave as you've described, so I think they're sealed up pretty well. The RTi10's still have some extra bottom end there that isn't present in the Monitor 10's, probably due in part to the porting and active subwoofer drivers.

laughing to your comment about the Aeris, haha.
yeah man, I just don't know what it is about gorgeous speakers...

alright, I'm going to explore my return/exchange options.

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

It sounds to me like the rti10 sound isn't for you. If I were you I'd quit trying to squeeze water from a stone and move on to a different speaker. The LSi line is a step in the right direction, but the LSiM is even better. The LSiM703 is a very good speaker and I'd highly recommend you try that one out.

hehe, thanks for that perspective, man. yeah, I think I'm slowly coming to the same conclusion. I just wanted to make sure I was trying everything I could to get them to work properly and give them a chance and not just doing something wrong.

just some more info, when I was done listening last night I was getting settled in and that film The Beach was on. had it on in the bedroom with my old Onkyo stereo receiver and two old Fisher floor speakers, and it sounded... I think the term to describe it may be "relaxed"? not too bright, not too detailed, not muddy. just right. it was comfortable listening.

can the LSi bookshelf speakers belt out some sound at higher volumes if used with a sub?
I do like music loud.

msg

Marantz 6008?
Just had a good talk with a 2ch guy at Best Buy. He says his uncle has the 10 and loves them for 2ch! and uses a Marantz.

msg

quick update here, fellas.

I tried the Marantz SR7007. long story short, no magic, and not much different than the Pioneer SC-75 I was trying. no body, still too bright. I returned both units yesterday.

feeling frustrated and defeated, I pulled out the rest of the B&K stuff late last night and hooked it up. just to see. well guess what. I got a fevah. and the only cure, is more cowbell. that and the other channel in the preamp was working and I hooked up the Squeezebox and played some music - the RTi10's sound significantly better now with this old B&K setup than they did with either of those AVR's with and without running them into the EX-442 amplifier.

I'm still going to look into the LSiM703. I just gotta know. at least I've got something relatively satisfactory now. this has been driving me crazy. I knew these speakers could do better. what I don't understand now though is how this preamp could make such a difference. more importantly, what is its modern counterpart? this MC-101 has bass and treble controls, but a midlevel control would be nice, too, if that exists in a preamp.

here are a couple of photos of the B&K equipment.

Loud & Clear

Very cool looking gear. Sounds like you've got some LSiM 703s coming your way. I'm looking forward to hearing your speakers comparison.

msg

thanks man
yeah, I'll definitely post up when I get them!

tonyb

msg wrote: »

. what I don't understand now though is how this preamp could make such a difference. more importantly, what is its modern counterpart? this MC-101 has bass and treble controls, but a midlevel control would be nice, too, if that exists in a preamp.
.

Because everything in the chain makes a difference to some degree. If you like the B&k sound, which again is one of the brands we recommend for RTI speakers constantly, look for a used REF30 or REF50. Some can be had for as little as a few hundred clams and have very good dacs to plug your Squeezebox into also.

msg

tonyb wrote: »

If you like the B&k sound, which again is one of the brands we recommend for RTI speakers constantly, look for a used REF30 or REF50. Some can be had for as little as a few hundred clams and have very good dacs to plug your Squeezebox into also.

Tony, would you list those recommended brands again, please?

tonyb

msg wrote: »

Tony, would you list those recommended brands again, please?

For what....pre's....amps ?

For RTI series....you can't go wrong with B&k or Parasound in either their amps or pre's. Depends on what you want to do, HT/music, or both.

Receivers is another animal, but if you want a warmer more musical sound, Anthem receivers would work well with RTI's and have current processing for Blu-ray.

On the cheap, for music....B&K ref30 or ref50......you simply can't do better for their going used prices. Not a single person in my time here has ever said they didn't like what B&k or Parasound did for their RTI speakers, not one to my memory. Of course there are other brands, again...depends on what you want to do and the depth of your wallet. Some like Hk gear with their Polks, some like Pioneer SC receivers. Both too, good units with good sound quality but will have current processing for blu-ray if that's a requirement.

msg

amps, yes, and both functions with a bias toward music.

good info on the Anthem receivers; I was wondering how they sounded for music.
in what order would you Anthem, Pioneer, and Marantz on the scale for being warm and musical, top to bottom?

notes taken on B&K ref30 and ref50.
btw, if you guys have never used Evernote, I highly recommend it. Free organizing/note taking app for your computers, tablets and smartphones.

deronb1

Sounds like you havent zeroed in on exactally what sound you are looking for....so welcome to the club. A speaker will generally keep the same tonal quality no matter what you power it with. That said, changes in power can improve that quality, but wont necessarily change it. Find a speaker that is pleasing with the kind of music you listen to. Improving power, cables, etc., will only improve the sound you already like. The rti series was engineered to be a dynamic speaker primarily for HT duty and it does an excellent job. You can add or change whatever you want, but it is still going to have a more bright quality.

You just have to listen to a lot of different speakers and decide for yourself.

msg

tonyb wrote: »

Because everything in the chain makes a difference to some degree. If you like the B&k sound, which again is one of the brands we recommend for RTI speakers constantly, look for a used REF30 or REF50. Some can be had for as little as a few hundred clams and have very good dacs to plug your Squeezebox into also.

okay, oddly, I think I read this, absorbed it, and made it my own idea and forgot where it was originally suggested, hehe
I found a pretty nice Parasound Halo C2 on Audiogon last week. it should deliver later this week or next. no HDMI, but I don't care about that right now, and may go with an Oppo BDP-105 at some point, which, with its analog outs should make everything work just fine.

nbrowser wrote: »

B&K
Parasound
End of list

haha

tonyb wrote: »

For what....pre's....amps ?
For RTI series....you can't go wrong with B&k or Parasound in either their amps or pre's. Depends on what you want to do, HT/music, or both.
Receivers is another animal, but if you want a warmer more musical sound, Anthem receivers would work well with RTI's and have current processing for Blu-ray.
On the cheap, for music....B&K ref30 or ref50......you simply can't do better for their going used prices. Not a single person in my time here has ever said they didn't like what B&k or Parasound did for their RTI speakers, not one to my memory. Of course there are other brands, again...depends on what you want to do and the depth of your wallet. Some like Hk gear with their Polks, some like Pioneer SC receivers. Both too, good units with good sound quality but will have current processing for blu-ray if that's a requirement.

see above

deronb1 wrote: »

Sounds like you havent zeroed in on exactally what sound you are looking for....so welcome to the club. A speaker will generally keep the same tonal quality no matter what you power it with. That said, changes in power can improve that quality, but wont necessarily change it. Find a speaker that is pleasing with the kind of music you listen to. Improving power, cables, etc., will only improve the sound you already like. The rti series was engineered to be a dynamic speaker primarily for HT duty and it does an excellent job. You can add or change whatever you want, but it is still going to have a more bright quality.

You just have to listen to a lot of different speakers and decide for yourself.

haha, yeah man, it's pretty overwhelming, and especially because I haven't heard a lot of different reasonably decent quality stuff. I'm hoping my jumping in point will get me close.
right now I'm sitting on RTi10's + CSi5, and a set of LSiM703's. with the new-to-me pre/pro and amp, I'm hoping to get a little direction here shortly. frankly though, the RTi's may be growing on me a bit, but I get what you're saying about not being able to change a whole lot about a speaker's sound. I'll see how things play out here in the next 2-3 weeks.

ThirdWorldGuy

Please let us know I myself am extremely curious how much better they would be for music than the RTi A5s when run through a receiver or a separate amp.
Are you using the Parasound with the 703s? The amp is warm right?

msg

ThirdWorldGuy wrote: »

Please let us know I myself am extremely curious how much better they would be for music than the RTi A5s when run through a receiver or a separate amp.
Are you using the Parasound with the 703s? The amp is warm right?

timely question. I just received the Parasound 2205 yesterday. haven't had much time with it at all, and the Halo C2 is due to deliver today. I'll report back.

tonyb

The RTIA5's are an easy load for most receivers. Adding an amp at low to normal listening volumes won't add that much. It will add some, but it's not going to transform the speaker into something else. Higher volumes will gain some more snap and sharper notes.

All depends really....but most mid level receivers can handle the 5's on their own. Amps in general have a more noticeable contribution with harder to drive speakers. Kinda like driving a 400hp car on a straight flat road at 40 mph. You need some twists and turns and hit the gas pedal to see what she can do. Amps need to be under a load to shine, the A5's don't represent such a load to an amp to get the amp off cruise control. Even more so if you have a subwoofer in the mix.

gurot1

Msg,i am also interested to see how you find the new setup as well. I have had the rti10's for a few years but never really started using them and fiddling around with them until December. I found that bass was almost non existent at low volumes and the mids sounded a little muffled...until you crank the volume and then it sounds different. of course at times the highs can be on harsh side. Got an old used NAD 2400 power amp and just as you mentioned the sound was a bit clearer with the amp but not a huge difference. Problem for me is that I don't really want to have to crank the volume all the time. Of course this is all referring to music. For movies I recently got used csi5 centre which works better than the csi3 I originally had for years. I have also been bit by upgraditis...can't say the wife is super pleased! Anyways, looking forward to hearing your impressions.

Hermitism

gurot1 wrote: »

Msg,i am also interested to see how you find the new setup as well. I have had the rti10's for a few years but never really started using them and fiddling around with them until December. I found that bass was almost non existent at low volumes and the mids sounded a little muffled...until you crank the volume and then it sounds different. of course at times the highs can be on harsh side. Got an old used NAD 2400 power amp and just as you mentioned the sound was a bit clearer with the amp but not a huge difference. Problem for me is that I don't really want to have to crank the volume all the time. Of course this is all referring to music. For movies I recently got used csi5 centre which works better than the csi3 I originally had for years. I have also been bit by upgraditis...can't say the wife is super pleased! Anyways, looking forward to hearing your impressions.

What kind of speaker cables are you using? The reason I ask, is I had the same problem with my RTi8's, you really had to give them some juice to get them to sound good. When I upgraded my speaker cables, the first thing I noticed was how much better music sounded at lower volumes. I didn't have to crank it up to get a good sound. The sound also improved at higher volume, but I like listening at lower to moderate levels.