Hdcd?

The Darkhorse

So I'm looking at DVD players today and I see one with an HDCD logo on it. ANd I am curious as to what HDCD is? I've obviously heard of SACD by now but never HDCD (HighDefinitionCD?). So, any of the wise forum sages care to fill me in here>

The Darkhorse

jcaut

It's a slightly higher-resolution CD (20-bit, I think) that's been around for a while. There's a good chance you already have a few in your collection. Look for the "HDCD" logo.

They play normally on any CD player, but you need a compatible player or D/A converter in your receiver to hear the improvement. I've got a few HDCD's, but no compatible player, so I can't comment on the sound.

scottvamp

Hi, I just bought a Denon player about a month ago and it places HDCD's. High Definition Compatible Digital® (HDCD®)
hdcd.com
HDCD-encoded CDs sound better because they are encoded with 20 bits of real musical information, as compared with 16 bits for all other CDs. HDCD overcomes the limitation of the 16-bit CD format by using a sophisticated system to encode the additional 4 bits onto the CD while remaining completely compatible with the existing CD format. HDCD provides more dynamic range, a more focused 3-D soundstage, and extremely natural vocal and musical timbre. With HDCD, you get the body, depth, and emotion of the original performance not a flat, digital imitation.

There are more than 5000 cd's out there with it but they are just mixed in with every other cd out there. Same price also. I have the new Tool and Cold cd's which have it. Your player has to be able to play HDCD's in order to hear the benifits. Yes, they sound very good ---every thing is much clearer and percise. The instuments are much more seperated and cleaner. Not blended together and muddy. Hope this helps. Later:cool:

rlw

Micro$oft bought the rights some time ago, apparently to make it die, and it's dead. More and more manufacturers have stopped HDCD support...that's why it doesn't matter.

It's a trick, b/c standard redbook CD is, by definition, 16 bits, no more, no less. HDCD does a very primitive upsample upon playback through the HDCD digital filter. There are far better upsampling algorithms/techniques available for less money today.

Think video: a crappy, el-cheapo line doubler vs. a top-end progressive scan. And audio is more complex...

The Darkhorse

I compared the Mitsu to the higher ($950 range) P scan players and other than the Sony, noen of them looked quite as good in all applications, especially the zoom features. The others seemed to distort the farther in you went.

The Sony was quite nice as well but I already own 2 Sony's so, i figured i'd go with a Mits. to go with my new TV.

In reply to the obviously uneducated rlw. It seems a bit odd that more and more manufacturers would be adding support for a dead technology(because thats what I'm seein'), I guess you are incorrect about that.
Also, get your facts straight about your equipment. You can spend much more cash and only get a "crappy" DVD player, where as the 8020 is a TRUE progressive scan player (also has outs for 6.1 which I found to be a nice touch).
And what does "think video" mean? Were you just attacking Mitsubishis player or my system personally? I know this is an opinion forum but your reply just seemed a bit snappy to me, it was probably just the calling of the player I was considering "crappy" that got me a bit ticked, as the other individuals who responded sounded as though they really wanted to help and you just shot it down.


The Darkhorse


Denon 4802
Mitsubishi 8020 DVD Player
Mitsubishi 65" HD 65869
RT2000p Fronts
CS400 Center
Martin Logan Scripts sides and rears

mantis

I gotto admit...thats one of the most mixed up systems I ever read bout.Come on man...running Martin's with Polk??Are you kiddin me?Then to top it off you run a Denon avr4802?With Polk's the Denon it work's fine,But not with Martin Lgan.You should have Prodigy's up front running them with at least Integra Research Seperates.But I gues everybody can't know how to match a system.
Dan

Ps Timbre anyone????

mantis

O bye the way,
The Mitsubishi Progressive scan DvD player is a crappy player, if you think it looks as good as better player's then you can not tell the difference in good quality,just look at that system you built,it tells the hole story.Just but the Mitsubishi,it looks fine.....from 20=feet away.
Dan

Can you say..well why didn't you look at the Denon 4800 or the 2800,they are good player's....sounds like money is an issue....save your pennies and buy a better player!
Dan

The Darkhorse

Actually the ML's sound great with the polks. When you have heard a system of the same design then you can tell me how it sounds. Untill then, you really can't be sure now can you. I designed the system all at the same time and looked at several choices when it came to components and speakers. The ML's (yes, suprisingly) went quite well with the Polks and CRUSHED all other polk offerings for the rear (exept mabye the RT2000ps, but I wanted something on a wall).

As for the Denon, if you take the time and effort (rather than trying for instant gratification) perfect calibration is possible. I doubt I'm the one with the cash problems mr. Mantis and I see you did not list your system.

And yeah, the TV does look great, let me know how it looks in your place when you can afford something other than a 25" magnavox.



The Darkhorse

(This started as a simple little question and jcaut, and scottvamp seem to be quite nice individuals who actually wanted to convey some useful info. But, when I get flamed, (attacked, whatever), for looking at a certain DVD player (rlw) or for buying a TV, reciever, and speakers that Mantis has only seen the likes of at his local electronics shop (mantis), I get a bit ticked. I apologize for ever asking and will stick to conversations where the people believe that there are other ways than theirs (Mantis again) to set up an HT.)

mantis

I hate to POP your bubble but guess what Horse...I'm a Custom Home Theater Installer and Know exactally what I'm taking about.Money is not a problem here at all.And I have put together more systems,Installed more Theater then you and everyone you will ever know in your lifetme,I do it 5 to 6 times a week 2 t 3 times a day.
\ok dude ,I don't want to sound like a jerk(sorry if I do) but I get mad when I read about such mixed up system's.I instal so many different types of Theaters an when you mixup brands...THEY DON'T TONALLY MATCH.
The Denon is a good Peice for your Polk's as it mates(tonally)well with the Brightness of Polk speakers.Martin Logan scripts are even brighter,Buyt they match the Aeon's.Prodigy's much better then 2000i's.If you wanted kick **** rears,you shouls have got the fx/1000's and rt55's or 35i's for surround back.You most likely are happy with your system but you could of spent the money you did much better and got a Better soundig and looking system.
Dan

mantis

Hey Darkhorse,
what are you running for network's???Cable,digital cable,Satellite???Hdtv sat,with an off air antenna for local DTV progamming???And I was wondering what you do wih the 4:3 signals on you ws65869??You know on your remote there is a format button that lets you change the view??Are you that high speed??Do you know about proper burn in time??Hw about cleaning those crt's at least once a year??
Just wondering??Hows those video games on tha set????Watch out fr that pause button!!
\Dan

mantis

I almost forgot,did you know about comcast's sidecar for HDTV???did you knoe they are tring to get out 6 to 7 channels for HDt...how nice of them
Dan

Aaron

Geez, people! I believe in stirring the pot a little, but come on! It's nearly Christmas; show a little holiday cheer!

Aaron

mantis

To answer you first question in this post....The HDCD is on the Denon Players,and yes they make great DvD player's.The 2800 is a single disk with Progressive scan(oneof the best on the market)but it doesn't have DvD-Audio,if that matters to you.The 4800 is a 5 disk DvD Player that does have dVD-Audio.DvD Audio is a fantastic sounding format.....o wait I forgot that you use different speaker's in the front and back,darn it won't sound good in your room as the music will change from front to back.Sorry you can't get into DVD audio or SACD untill you pick a speaker brand.Have fun with theater though.
Dan

jcaut

I'm not good at being the ref, but here goes:

Let's back away from our keyboards and relax for a moment. It looks to me as if a simple misunderstanding, or poor choice of words, has gotten escalated into personal attacks. And we should TRY to avoid those.

Just remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion here ( "Your Opinion"--get it?). Let's just be courteous and not resort to making judgements about someone's character (or financial situation, whatever) based on the A/V equipment they've chosen. I'd hate to even mention some of the crappy stuff I've got (it's NOT Bose, though!)!

Thanks,
Jason

PS. I don't type very fast, so I see several people beat me to that. Sorry.

stubby

Mantis,
Why don't you do like 4 or 5 installs a day/7 days a week. Then you'll be too busy to write all these sarcastic comments. Just a thought.
Stubby

hoosier21

I have HDCD and like it, iit sounds better even to me.

Have you seen the list of MFG that do support HDCD
A & R Cambridge, Adcom, Arcam, Balanced Audio Technology, California Audio Labs, Class

rlw

I'm not attacking your system, your taste, your DVD player or anything else, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. Where did I say your system was crappy? Where did I talk about your player, or anything else other than HDCD?

I was attacking the concept of HDCD, and offering you an analogy for understanding it - think of upsampling digital audio as line doubling for audio. Now, think of HDCD as a crappy line doubler...get it?

Your post did convince me of one thing, tho: there's a reason I stopped participating on this forum long ago, and that reason is still valid.

Have fun, and happy holidays.

The Darkhorse

I totally agree with the resuming of the HAPPY sharing of opinions.


mantis :
As for my signal, I am using standard Cable (looks like crap from so close) and an antenna for the (3 whole) local station in HD (which looks great, even up close). I'll sign up for a service soon.
As for the 4:3 signal I tend to use the stretch mode most
The once a year cleaning is covered in my (free) warranty
The Games look Great! (main reason I bought the set)


The Darkhorse


(wasn't fond of the,ha ha look what i can do "little" set of credentials though. I'll spare you mine)

scottvamp

Darkhorse: Glad somebody on this a forum likes my info. and time I put in. I have been in my share of pissing matches. Mainly the that Aaron gut but there could be more than one.Then other supporters jump in even though there wrong.
HDCD seems to be a stong format and it sound great. I would like to go DVDA but they are more expensive and wont play on standard CD players.
Mantis: You are right about one thing the Denon 2800 is a great P-player. I did alot of research before I bought mine.
Stubby:Great call man. If Mantis is doing 4 to 5 full installs a week where does he find the time to argue on Polk. You must live in a large money happy town. I also install HT and I am lucky to do one aweek. Mantis you must be making bank---unless you are doing plug and go's for senior citzens.
Anyway: CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!
I know what would stop some of the big headed people on this site. We need to have a way to show off our Polk HT systems, I know that would shut up some people. I have $25,000 in to my dedicated HT. A 36" tv is not an HT, sorry guys.
Hope I dont sould like an SOB or a snob but I have been disrespected in this forum at times. O.K. I'm done. :rolleyes:

The Darkhorse

25,000$, and you don't list your stuff?!?!?! C'mon now, whats a guy gotta do to find out what you people got!

The Darkhorse

scottvamp

Here ya go. My garage was totally gutted out and double installation and acoustic panel board were put in. Had to route heat and air. Paint --lighting -- lots of wiring. $500 bucks in subwoofer cable alone. My Ht is worth about what I bring home in cash in a year. Ha! Can you say expensive hobbie.
Dedicated HT Living Room
12x22 12x20
rt1000---mains Onkyo reciever
cs400----center Onkyo 5disc dvd--cd
fx500----surrounds (dipole) RCA Sat. reciever
cs245i---rear center rt25i----main
psw1200---front sub. cs245i--center
vr500---rear sub. rt15i---rear surround
Equip: AR 12" sub.
All monster cable 52" RCA rear projection
RCA---sat. reciever All monster cable
Onkyo 5 disc CD
Onkyo--Tx-DS787
Denon-DVD2800 Progessive Scan
Monster Power--HTS3500
JVC- S4800U S-VHS
PLV60HT---HD projector
120" Da-lite screen

Maybe I can figure out how to place some pics. someday.