Setting up first HT looking for advice with speakers

Archigos
Archigos Posts: 39
edited December 2013 in Speakers
I just picked up a Denon-AVR300 and I'm trying to decide between speakers to match with it.
http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productdetail.aspx?catid=avreceivers(denonna)&pid=avre300(denonna)


I was recommended the TSi300s but I am hesistant because the Monitor 70s look to be better speakers for a similar price. If there is a reason not to go with the M70s I've also considered to start with the TSi400s to help prevent me from wanting to upgrade so quick later on. I know it comes down to what sounds best but I've only been able to listen to the TSi300s since no stores near my seem to carry the 400s or M70s in the store or at least setup where I can hear them.

Primary goal will be TV, Movies, Video Games. Maybe a little music but not a primary focus or concern.

When it comes to selecting a Center I really don't know where to start. I've read a lot of people seem to be using the CS-10 and CS-20. There does seems to be a decent price gap between them and I don't know enough about specs/ quality to tell why one would cost more than the other. So I'm hoping that deciding on the fronts will help me select the Center since I will need one to match them.

For the sub I was thinking about grabing the PSW-125 or possibly spending a little more for the PSW-505.

Room:
Size: 18x20 with hardwood floors.( I mention the hardwood because I read somewhere that if you have hardwood floors you don't want a downfiring sub.. I think?)

It's on a relatively open floor plan with no walls blocking this room from going into a small dining room and then the kitchen.

All input is greatly appreciated.

Thank You all very much for helping me break into this what I can only imaging will soon become an expensive hobby.

- Arch
Post edited by Archigos on
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Comments

  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited December 2013
    I don't know enough about those specific speakers to comment, but get the bigger center if you can. The center is the most important speaker IMO for an HT setup so don't skimp there.
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  • TNHNDYMAN
    TNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,145
    edited December 2013
    I'd recommend the 70's with a CS2 center and the 505. Down the road you may want to upgrade receiver to something with pre outs and an external amp for the M70's since they do like power, but will be ok on the AVR for starters. The Tsi series is better looking, but not much better performance wise, so I'd save the $ and apply to the larger sub and center.
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

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  • seabeerob213
    seabeerob213 Posts: 1,843
    edited December 2013
    watch amazon/newegg/frys for the 505, they often drop down to around 189, i picked up two around this time last year,
    2 Channel(work in progress):DAC: Schiit modi 2 uberAmp:Parasound 1200 MK IISub:RBH 1010-SEP Speakers: Monitor 5A peerlesscurrently running some krk rokit 3g since the HK pre outs died and i need to start breaking everything down to move in a couple monthsHeadphones:Source: tidalDAC: schiit modius epre: schiit sysAmp: AQ dragonfly black/ schiit magni2 Cans: Velodyne V-True, Grado SR225i, sennheiser x drop gaming headsetPC:DAC: schiit modius e(over spdif)pre: schiit sysspeakers: prenous eris 5 xtSub: Earthquake Sound MiniMe-P63most of my comments are passing on of info, im a noob, im just trying to help how i can, if im wrong or out of place to comment, dont hesitate to let me know :)"WITH WILLING HEARTS AND SKILLFUL HANDS, THE DIFFICULT WE DO AT ONCE, THE IMPOSSIBLE TAKES A BIT LONGER, WITH COMPASSION FOR OTHERS. WE BUILD - WE FIGHT FOR PEACE WITH FREEDOM"Seabee Memorial, Arlington, VA
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited December 2013
    Check your local Costco for a Pioneer 1222K AVR, for $50 more than the Denon you've linked it would be a much better choice.
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    I went to Fry's to try and listen to few more speakers but they only carry the TSx line now as the TSi must be the older/out dated model. If anyone knows if there is a good reason to spend more on the TSx line vs the TSi line I'd love to hear your input. I'm guessing it's very minor changes between the models and possibly more cosmetic than anything.

    If this is true I'm hoping I can probably grab the TSi for a nice discount.

    Sub I am still trying to hold out for a good price on a 505 and don't plan to buy the sub until I have the front speakers (Unless it's a steal of a deal comes up).

    The Pioneer 1222k I'm only seeing as low as $600.00 right now unless I'm looking at the wrong model?
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0083C8B30/avrip-20

    I grabbed the Denon AVR-300 for $275.00 on sale and figured would be a good starting point to learn and setup my first system with. Granted I don't want to make a horrible sounding HT either so I am always completely open to suggestions.


    Currently looking into
    TSi400 - 230.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi400-Floorstanding-Speaker/dp/B0018QROHC/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388258388&sr=1-2&keywords=Polk+Audio+Floor+Speakers
    TSi400 - 150.00
    http://www.frys.com/product/5614891?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

    TSx440 - 262.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSx-440T-Speaker/dp/B00CHHCBVK/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388258546&sr=1-4&keywords=Polk+Audio+TSx

    TSi500 - 200
    http://www.frys.com/product/5614911?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

    Monitor 70 - 163.00 (Still unsure if I have enough power for them with my Denon AVR-300 though)
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Monitor70-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/B00631YX62/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388258603&sr=1-1&keywords=Monitor+70


    Any thoughts on these three? Feel free to offer other suggestions into the mix as I am not trying to rush the purchase and I have no problem researching into other options if people feel they are indeed worth it.

    Center

    CS10 - 120.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Center-Channel-Speaker/dp/B0018QROM2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388258733&sr=1-1&keywords=Polk+CS-10

    CS20 - 320.00
    http://www.frys.com/product/5614981?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
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  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited December 2013
    TSi400's match up nice with the CS20. But for the extra $100, I would get the TSi500's. IMO you should go with the larger center CS20 either way.
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Edited above speaker list. Wasn't paying attention that some of them were in store only and not available near me.

    Currently looking into
    TSi400 - 230.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi...Floor+Speakers

    TSx440 - 262.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSx...Polk+Audio+TSx


    Monitor 70 - 163.00 (Still unsure if I have enough power for them with my Denon AVR-300 though)
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Mon...rds=Monitor+70


    Any thoughts on these three? Feel free to offer other suggestions into the mix as I am not trying to rush the purchase and I have no problem researching into other options if people feel they are indeed worth it.

    Center

    CS10 - 120.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Cen...rds=Polk+CS-10

    CS20 - 320.00
    http://www.frys.com/product/5614981?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
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  • mr2686
    mr2686 Posts: 52
    edited December 2013
    Ok, first off, the TSI line is just the newer Monitors, so unless you think the TSI's look better than the Monitors, I'd save some cash and get the Monitors. The 70's would be equal to the TSI500's. Second, if you're in the US, I'd look at the Polk Ebay store. For the prices you're quoting, you can easily go there and get in to the RTI line for the same money if not cheaper. Lastly, the TSX's are somewhere in between the TSI's and the RTI's...they sound a little warmer but personally I like the RTI's better.
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Just to double check that it's all compatible. Will the Monitor 70s work well with my Denon AVR-300 or will I need to change that out for something with more WPC?

    As far as looks I'm not really worried. I'm just trying to get something that will sound nice and not be extremely expensive.

    Also I've read back and forth on the PSW505. For it's price range is there something that would be better suited to pair with the Monitor 70s, and a CS20 assuming I get it instead of the CS10?
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Current Watch List. If any of these seem like a good buy now I'd appreciate the heads up. Not really sure price history of speakers. Also not sure if I should be look into a different Sub. I've read that some people don't really care for Polk Subs but I did like the Polk Speakers I listened to.
    Amazon
    Fry's
    CrutchField
    Newegg
    RTi8 6.5"
    188.00(Sale)
    TSx440
    262.46
    349.00
    349.99
    TSi400
    229.00
    229.99
    229.00
    Monitor 70
    163.77
    159.99

    PSW110
    159.00
    249.99
    249.99
    249.90
    PSW505
    241.45
    249.99
    BIC America F12---204.59
    234.22(Not Available)

    CS10
    120.19
    199.99
    99.99
    119.00
    CS20
    319.99
    149.99
    CS2
    129.99
    99.99
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited December 2013
    ken brydson wrote: »
    Check your local Costco for a Pioneer 1222K AVR, for $50 more than the Denon you've linked it would be a much better choice.

    Currently $399 but not all stores stock them...
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2013
    Archigos wrote: »
    Current Watch List. If any of these seem like a good buy now I'd appreciate the heads up. Not really sure price history of speakers. Also not sure if I should be look into a different Sub. I've read that some people don't really care for Polk Subs but I did like the Polk Speakers I listened to.
    Amazon
    Fry's
    CrutchField
    Newegg
    RTi8 6.5"
    188.00(Sale)




    PSW505
    241.45
    249.99


    CSi5 POLK EBAY DIRECT 202.49

    And the Pioneer AVR mentioned above. You're done.

    Actually the Rti-8s are easier to power to their potential than M-70s.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Trying to compare the Denon and the Pioneer this morning and I was just curious what about it makes it the winner here?

    http://av-receivers.net/denon/denon-avr-e300-review/
    http://av-receivers.net/pioneer/pioneer-sc-1222-k-review/

    I'm seeing that the Pioneer is 120wpc and the Denon is 175wpc. I was under the impression that more is better. Also if I only plan to do a 5.1 setup is the Pioneer still worth the extra money? I can't find it on sale anywhere near here currently so 600 is the lowest I can find and that is on Amazon.

    Is the extra 300 for features and the fact it is 7.2 or is there more to the actually hardware inside that makes it worth so much more?
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2013
    +1, nbrowser!

    Also remember that the Pioneer has D3 amplification which is far MORE efficient than standard A/B which is what the Denon is, so that the Pioneer will be inherently more powerful and dynamic.

    More than 50 percent of your power is dissipated as heat in an A/B amp whereas a D amp can be efficient to close to 90 percent, meaning cooler running and more available power!

    Finally, the Pioneer is almost TWICE as heavy as the Denon. And that is a HUGE build quality difference that also AFFECTS things like power supplies, current storage, etc.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    This is definitely way over my head already so I appreciate everyone's input helping me to understand everything. I'll keep looking around for the Pioneer on sale somewhere, if not I may try it with the Denon. I figure this setup won't grow or expand anytime soon. Just want to get a nice like 5.1 setup started and then I can sell and upgrade later, or at least thats the plan.

    If anyone knows a good place to check for the Pioneer other than Costco that would also be much appreciated! I'd really like to stay under 400 but max 500 for the receiver for starting out.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2013
    I'd also suggest looking for a "refurb" receiver on this site. They all come with at least a ONE year warranty and you can buy MORE protection if you want. The prices are also pretty good.

    http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/AVReceiver/Home-Audio/Home-Theater-Receivers/1.html

    You could go with a HIGHER model Denon, or an Onkyo TX-SR600 series or above, or a Marantz 5000 series. I'd favor the Marantz with the Onkyo behind. Both will have decent "power" as they are High Current designs.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited December 2013
    I have a CS20 Series II black that I need to part with.
    The speakers you are looking at, Newegg is always running
    great sales and running out of stock, just be patient.


    Costco requires a annual membership $55 as you probably know.

    cnh gave you a good site their units come with a full warranty
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited December 2013
    Don't forget Onkyo I have three of them
    Archigos wrote: »
    This is definitely way over my head already so I appreciate everyone's input helping me to understand everything. I'll keep looking around for the Pioneer on sale somewhere, if not I may try it with the Denon. I figure this setup won't grow or expand anytime soon. Just want to get a nice like 5.1 setup started and then I can sell and upgrade later, or at least thats the plan.

    If anyone knows a good place to check for the Pioneer other than Costco that would also be much appreciated! I'd really like to stay under 400 but max 500 for the receiver for starting out.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    I'd like to try to buy new even though there are some amazing deals to be had one refurb/slightly used equipment.

    TX-SR606 for 350.00
    http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR606-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0015S8PGW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388368179&sr=1-1&keywords=onkyo+tx-sr606

    The Marantz SR5007/5008 seem to be out of my 500.00 price range for the receiver.

    Pioneer SC-1222k - 599.99
    http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1222-K-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0083C8B30/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388368478&sr=1-1&keywords=pioneer+1222k

    I think I am going to pick up the RTi8's tomorrow since they are still on sale for 188.00 a piece and see how they sound. If not I may end up waiting for the TSi/TSx400s to go on sale for under 200. I'm thinking the Monitor 70s might end up being more power hungry than the budget receiver I'm looking to start with.
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    It's really hard for me to just spend more when my goal was to stay under 500 for the receiver and getting the Denon for 275.00 felt like a steal at the time. If it's really going to make the sound that bad though I'll certainly reconsider.

    Is the Pioneer 1222 for 600.00 really that good of a price or can I wait and more likely find it on sale for less? I read somewhere it was a discontinued model so not sure if that will mean price will drop or not, but I'm guessing it will make it harder for me to find new. I do plan to keep checking Costco, Frys, Amazon, Ebay, Bestbuy, newegg until the day I can no longer bring the Denon back for a refund.

    I am also willing to look into any other receivers that you have in mind around my price point.

    I feel like I'm asking for help, and then just telling everyone no but that is certain not my intention. However getting the speakers for under 200 a piece does give me a few extra that I could put towards the receiver or maybe a CS20 instead of a CS10.

    Thank You all again very much. Hope I'm not to much of a pain in the ****.

    - Arch
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Can't edit post since it's over 20 minutes, but I should have said CSi5 not the CS20 since that seems to be the correct Timbre match.

    That said I didn't realize how much the center would be -> 400.
    I may end up even reconsidering the TSi/TSx line since their centers seem to cost around 100-300 but I want to give the RTi8's a chance first since I've seen good things about them.
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  • mr2686
    mr2686 Posts: 52
    edited December 2013
    Right now you can get the CSI5 from Polk Ebay (this is direct from Polk through Ebay) refurb for 202 and new for 269. The RTI8's are 400 for a pair (just a little more than at Frys right now) and free shipping. I have the 8's and CSI5, and they Rock for music and HT. I got my CSI5 from them as a refurb and it looks brand spankin new.
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited December 2013
    Yea the CS10/20 is for the monitor series, whatever you do take your time it is the beginning of a new year there is going to be some good deals on closeouts.

    Archigos wrote: »
    Can't edit post since it's over 20 minutes, but I should have said CSi5 not the CS20 since that seems to be the correct Timbre match.

    That said I didn't realize how much the center would be -> 400.
    I may end up even reconsidering the TSi/TSx line since their centers seem to cost around 100-300 but I want to give the RTi8's a chance first since I've seen good things about them.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    I did get the CSi5 from the Polk Audio Ebay store this morning. I had only been looking for the CS20/10 and never thought to go back there for the CSi5. Thanks for the great find.

    I'm certainly not trying to rush and will be constantly checking all stores I have access to. If the pioneer doesn't come down are there other Class D3 amps worth looking into?
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Updates on the receiver.

    I went to Costco today and they only carry 2 Receivers by me.

    Yamaha TSR-6750 for 489.99
    Sony STR-DN1030 for 399.99

    Bestbuy had a Pioneer VSX-1123-k for 449.99

    I was not able to find the 1222k or the Elite SC-63

    Would the Pioneer VSX-1123-k be similar to the 1222k for 600 on Amazon, or is this one not a class D3 Amp. I'm trying to research and figure it out as I post this.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2013
    Archigos wrote: »
    Updates on the receiver.

    I went to Costco today and they only carry 2 Receivers by me.

    Yamaha TSR-6750 for 489.99
    Sony STR-DN1030 for 399.99

    Bestbuy had a Pioneer VSX-1123-k for 449.99

    I was not able to find the 1222k or the Elite SC-63

    Would the Pioneer VSX-1123-k be similar to the 1222k for 600 on Amazon, or is this one not a class D3 Amp. I'm trying to research and figure it out as I post this.

    There's a reason that the 1223 costs more; it is the ENTRY D3 amp. You're not going to find that in "any" lower model yet. The 1123 does NOT have D3 amps.

    Only the Aventage series by Yamaha is worth a buy, IMO. I'm not sure what model that starts at but you can check the Yamaha site.

    I checked for you: The 6750 is NOT an Aventage model.

    Lower model Sonys do not have much power in the surround mode.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    Called Pioneer and the company selling the SC-1222k on Amazon is not authorized so they won't do any warranty for it. That rules that option out for me.

    The 1223 I can't find lower than 800 yet but still looking. Hoping to see it drop to 600 somewhere, not sure how realistic that is.


    If I decide to just go with the A/B instead of the D3 amp and just make sure it has pre-amps will be ok?
    It will be in an open air stand so I'm really not worried about it over heating or anything from being in a confined space.


    If so is there a trustworthy/reliable in my range? Just reading reviews and searched X vs Y on google.
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    nbrowser wrote: »
    Just an idea, why not browse thru craigslist ec. to find a lightly used Pioneer SC model ? Get a better price and get into some serious joy ?

    I'd really like to have the warranty is the biggest reason. First time setting this up so I'm probably being overly concerned, but to me the piece of mind is worth it's weight in gold.
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  • Archigos
    Archigos Posts: 39
    edited December 2013
    After another 20 hours or so of reviews and forums I'm leaning towards the Yamaha RX-A730 @ 650.00

    The slightly cheaper alternative would probably be the Onkyo TX-NR626 or the YAMAHA RX-V773WABL both at 450.00

    Any thoughts between the three?
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2013
    In general the Aventage series is the way to go with Yamaha. The A in RX-A is for Aventage so that's the entry model. The problem? I'm not sure how much Aventage amp tech that lower model actually 'shares' with its bigger brothers or whether or not it is just a rebadged RX-V receiver with an A prefix?

    Onkyos almost "always" deliver decent POWER. The 600 does not have pre-outs, but that's your call.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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