Jriver skipping

11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
edited May 2014 in Going Digital
Skipping has been an issue for a while in Jriver. Usually very short interruptions, and intermittent in nature. I can listen for hours with no incident, and then get 5 skips in 20 minutes.
Usage is such that I am most often actively using the computer while listening, but even if I am away from the desk, listening while elsewhere in the house, it will still skip.
Last week, I changed out the cpu and RAM (AMD 8350 8 core @ 4.8Ghz, 8 GB Gskill Ripjaws). And a fresh install of Win7 64 bit on ssd. Though I didn't have any long listening sessions, I had no skips UNTIL I updated the Flash plug-in for Chrome... and now it is a daily occurrence.

Digital chain is My Book Live cloud drive to Netgear router. Computer has HT Omega card (drivers installed) with Huffman D.I. to Peachtree Dac-It.

I am using ASIO4ALL generic with Windows audio disabled. I have tried WASAPI and Direct Hardware, they all skip. I feel confident I can rule out cpu/RAM overload.....

I have tried all forms of buffering, port forwarding for the external drive, disabling drivers, etc and am just going in circles.

I hope I have provided enough info... if not, let me know. But please lend me a new direction....

Thanks

Steve
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
Post edited by 11tsteve on
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Comments

  • striderstrider Posts: 2,569
    edited December 2013
    Definitely sounds like you have the hardware end well covered.

    Have you noticed that the bit depth or sample rate has anything to do with the skipping?

    How 'bout trying to undo the Flash update?
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,086
    edited December 2013
    I thought I read somewhere where Chrome plugins can cause conflict with JRiver and other programs. Maybe google for that and see if you catch a fix.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited December 2013
    strider wrote: »
    Definitely sounds like you have the hardware end well covered.

    Have you noticed that the bit depth or sample rate has anything to do with the skipping?

    How 'bout trying to undo the Flash update?
    this is a good time to say I am new-ish to Jriver. I have done little with either but run everything at 44000. my files are either 16 bit or 24 bit, depending. i have all upsampling disabled.

    Yes, I did immediately uninstall the Flash plugin.
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    I thought I read somewhere where Chrome plugins can cause conflict with JRiver and other programs. Maybe google for that and see if you catch a fix.

    it happens with Firefox as well, and even without a browser open.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited December 2013
    upon further investigation, it would appear I can trigger the skipping by flipping the light switch in both my office (were the gear is) and in the dining room. I have not gone father investigating every switch.
    It will not skip on every flip, but if keep hitting the switch, it will eventually start skipping and then continue... each skip coinciding with a flip in which the lights turn on.
    So, it would seem I have a bigger issue. I had a fully grounded 20A line installed just for the audio gear, and the computer is on another line in the office, so my mind tells me the problem goes back to our breaker box. The incoming service to the house was replaced two years ago, the box & sub-panel are a nice Square D, and the two electricians who have seen the box said things look good. So I am not sure if just adding a power condition is the answer, or if I should be worried about a bigger potential problem.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • FaceFace Posts: 14,714
    edited December 2013
    A ONLINE UPS for the PC would help, but it would be nice to know why exactly it's happening.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,086
    edited December 2013
    I like to use a simple tester to ensure things are connected properly at wall outlets. You can get them online or at Home Depot.

    Does your office light switch also have a dimmer on it or is it just on/off?

    7338_p.jpg
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited December 2013
    All switches are just on/off.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited January 2014
    well, i have new found facts.

    i have been chasing many tails, and believe I have come to a conclusion. I believe the issue is my Peachtree DAC*It.

    I hooked a cd player directly to the pre, hit every switch and took every action I have found to cause skipping, and there was nothing. Not a single skip.

    However, if I hook up the cd player to the DAC*It via my Huffman digital IC, it takes next to nothing to get things to skip. and of three switches will trigger the skipping. So, either the Dac or the cable..... I am hunting down a TOSLINK cable to help rule out the cable.

    I have purchased this unit....APC 1200 voltage regulator...http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=LE1200

    and the Dac is currently plugged into that, but the APC doesn't appear to be helping. Which confuses me. Any thoughts anyone?
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited January 2014
    nevermind... problem solved. my Huffman cable has a bad RCA connector. How that picked up electric switches and refrigerators turning on, I would love to know.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    ok... new info.

    The Huffman cable was sent and repaired.

    I then found the Coax port on my HT Omega card had a bad solder. That has been repaired.

    And still, the music skips when this cable is used in conjunction with the sound card. It still can be triggered with the light switch.
    But it does NOT happen, ever, when using TOSLINK.

    And, if I hook a cd player directly to DAC using the cable, there is no issue. Never a skip, light switch or not.

    So, for some reason, that specific jack on the sound card is picking up some sort of EMI? Maybe?

    Any other thoughts as to a cause or possible fix?
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • StantonZStantonZ Posts: 393
    edited March 2014
    You've already investigated areas that I wouldn't have thought of (at least in a short period of time)! It's obvious there's some sort of EMI issue going on if the Toslink interface is working (I use Toslink instead of coax whenever possible), but I'm not sure you'll ever completely solve the issue if there is design (grounding) problem with the sound card itself.
    Yamaha RX-A2050 AVR (5.0.2)
    (4) Polk Monitor 10B's w/SoniCaps, Mills, and RDO-194 tweets (R/L F/R)
    (2) Polk Monitor 4's w/peerless tweets (Top Middle)
    Polk CS300 center channel
    Analog: B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
    Digital: Pioneer CLD-99 Elite LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Blu-Ray
    LG 65EF9500 4K OLED
  • bikerboybikerboy Posts: 1,160
    edited March 2014
    My Dac will drop the signal when the electric stove upstairs in the kitchen switches the burner on every time and every time the furnace shuts off. It is called ground bounce. It is a spike through the ground. The optical connection may solve the issue because there is no ground. Does your Dac use the ESS processor? My twisted pear audio Dac uses the ESS 9018 chip and they are very picky about ground noise.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 and 10" sub w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRP, Nothingham Spacedeck-> DV 10x5-> Bottlehead Eros, Sony cassette deck
    Digital: I3 pc w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY
    Vinyl rips-> ESI [email protected]/192->fanless i3 pc server
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    bikerboy wrote: »
    My Dac will drop the signal when the electric stove upstairs in the kitchen switches the burner on every time and every time the furnace shuts off. It is called ground bounce. It is a spike through the ground. The optical connection may solve the issue because there is no ground. Does your Dac use the ESS processor? My twisted pear audio Dac uses the ESS 9018 chip and they are very picky about ground noise.
    I honestly believe it to be a problem with the computer, since I cannot replicate the issue using the Coax cable, going from a cd player to the DAC directly.
    and the outlet for the audio gear, and the outlet for the computer, are on two separate feeds, both new, both 20A, and both grounded.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • bikerboybikerboy Posts: 1,160
    edited March 2014
    Try useing one outlet for both the computer and the Dac.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 and 10" sub w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRP, Nothingham Spacedeck-> DV 10x5-> Bottlehead Eros, Sony cassette deck
    Digital: I3 pc w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY
    Vinyl rips-> ESI [email protected]/192->fanless i3 pc server
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    bikerboy wrote: »
    Try useing one outlet for both the computer and the Dac.
    both the computer and the DAC are plugged into an APC voltage regulator. So far the light switch will not trigger the skipping. I know it is not the voltage regulator alone fixing, because I swear to God, I had tried every conceivable way off plugging things in... yet, I must have missed this one.
    Understand that this has been a journey of months, so my optimism is tempered. But, it this solves the problem, you are my ****ing hero. Thanks bikerboy.
    But do you think it is the DAC still, even though I couldn't replicate it with DAC only? Or is it something in the relationship between the DAC and the computer?
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    and yes, the DAC-it uses the ESS Sabre 9023.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    ah. I think I understand.... the DAC was singular before, and the cd player on the same circuit, but since the computer was on a separate circuit, and not of common ground, this is what caused the bounce. So, ultimately, it is the DAC.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • bikerboybikerboy Posts: 1,160
    edited March 2014
    I have looked at this issue for quite soom time and it has been very frustrating. The ESS dac chips are very sensitive to a high quality signal and they let you know when it isnt good. I get dropouts sometimes but I have finally figured out the source and can deal with it. Glad I could help, it seemed you had it solved with the bad cables.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 and 10" sub w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRP, Nothingham Spacedeck-> DV 10x5-> Bottlehead Eros, Sony cassette deck
    Digital: I3 pc w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY
    Vinyl rips-> ESI [email protected]/192->fanless i3 pc server
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    nope... still skipping. not as frequent, but still does.....
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • sucks2bemesucks2beme Posts: 4,832
    edited March 2014
    ok, try something new. I've had lots of skipping problems.
    Source- POWER MANAGEMENT. Green motherboards and
    newer OS tend to do some funky stuff. Go into your operating system
    and turn off the green stuff. Don't let it throttle down your processor
    speed.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    ok, try something new. I've had lots of skipping problems.
    Source- POWER MANAGEMENT. Green motherboards and
    newer OS tend to do some funky stuff. Go into your operating system
    and turn off the green stuff. Don't let it throttle down your processor
    speed.
    thanks, but I already turn all of that stuff off for overclocking. And I have tried toggling the Spread Spectrum on and off for both the cpu and the pci slots, as this directly addresses the EMI issue, but it did nothing.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • sucks2bemesucks2beme Posts: 4,832
    edited March 2014
    ok, so just as a double check, leave your task manager up and open into performance monitoring.
    I would assume that things are going haywire when it skips.
    Also, have you looked into a small ups for the pc?
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    there is nothing that happens, visually, in any of the PM's live graphs. I have checked that, and Event Logs. Did you have something specific in mind in the performance monitor, or something that you have seen in your case?
    Currently, the computer is plugged into this..... http://www.posglobal.com/LE1200.html

    Part of me is starting to wonder if it is the DAC, but maybe not what we discussed earlier with the ESS chip, but possibly the fact that this Peachtree uses a power dongle instead of a three prong power cord.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited March 2014
    there is nothing that happens, visually, in any of the PM's live graphs. I have checked that, and Event Logs. Did you have something specific in mind in the performance monitor, or something that you have seen in your case?
    Currently, the computer is plugged into this..... http://www.posglobal.com/LE1200.html

    Part of me is starting to wonder if it is the DAC, but maybe not what we discussed earlier with the ESS chip, but possibly the fact that this Peachtree uses a power dongle instead of a three prong power cord.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • sucks2bemesucks2beme Posts: 4,832
    edited March 2014
    just generic troubleshooting. That is all very strange.
    other than a power line monitor, or a ups,
    you're pretty much done.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • ZentishZentish Posts: 127
    edited March 2014
    Do you have an IR remote in the room, connected to the PC?
    Do you use compact florescent lights in the room?
    I've seen CFL lights create interference with my IR remote and remote repeater pretty randomly.

    If you're looking for strange things anyways...
    Receiver: ONKYO TX-NR929 7.1 AVR 130wpc
    Mains: 2x Polk RTA 8TL's
    Center: Polk CS245i
    Surrounds: 2x Klipsch RS-41ii (because they fit perfectly over the door and window)
    Rear Surr: 2x Polk M4a '90
    Subwoofer: Speakerlab DAS-SW dual-voice-coil 10" '88 30Hz-150Hz
    Subwoofer Amp: ONKYO A-8019 AMP '85 100wpc
    Display: Samsung 55" UNC55-8000 3D LED
    Console: Xbox360
    DVR: custom MythTV rig w/ 3 tuners OTA
    Zone2: 2x Polk M5b '87
  • TNHNDYMANTNHNDYMAN Posts: 2,153
    edited May 2014
    11steve-

    Just found this thread and wondering if you ever found a fix. I also have a Peachtree DAC-iT and run JRiver to the X1 asynchorus (sp) convertor via usb from computer and then coaxil into the DAC. Do you have any static electricity issues in your listening area? I have found in my system that while running jriver I get skipping every time I get up from the couch and touch anything metal in my system. Even walking across the area rug between couch and entertainment system will apparently send a surge that the 2ch system is picking up. Right now I have the usb cable from the computer running under this rug and am hoping to eliminate that issue when I reroute the 20' USB cable down into the crawlspace and back up into the living room, but I think I will still have issues with static electricity discharges regardless. For now I just touch the side of the stove before touching any of my audio gear.
    2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.

  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited May 2014
    I had the issue with the Peachtree on digital IC but never toslink, and i never tried USB.My Keces has never had the issue in the month plus I have had it in my system.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • Loud & ClearLoud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited May 2014
    I had the skipping issue when I first started in on computer music. I was using an older windows laptop. I then switched to a newer iMac and haven't had a skip since. Not one in hundreds of hours of music. Also using a Peachtree, the Dac it x. Not saying it's your computer, but it might be.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited May 2014
    TNHNDYMAN wrote: »
    11steve-

    Just found this thread and wondering if you ever found a fix. I also have a Peachtree DAC-iT and run JRiver to the X1 asynchorus (sp) convertor via usb from computer and then coaxil into the DAC. Do you have any static electricity issues in your listening area? I have found in my system that while running jriver I get skipping every time I get up from the couch and touch anything metal in my system. Even walking across the area rug between couch and entertainment system will apparently send a surge that the 2ch system is picking up. Right now I have the usb cable from the computer running under this rug and am hoping to eliminate that issue when I reroute the 20' USB cable down into the crawlspace and back up into the living room, but I think I will still have issues with static electricity discharges regardless. For now I just touch the side of the stove before touching any of my audio gear.
    as this was happening in the humid weather as well as dryer, I do not believe I had static electricity. At least, nothing detectable. And the fact that light switches across the house could trigger the skip.... but your case sounds very different.
    I had the skipping issue when I first started in on computer music. I was using an older windows laptop. I then switched to a newer iMac and haven't had a skip since. Not one in hundreds of hours of music. Also using a Peachtree, the Dac it x. Not saying it's your computer, but it might be.
    AMD 8 core @ 4.8 ghz, SATA III ssd, Sabertooth board. I mean, it COULD be the computer, but I really doubt it. Plus the addition of the Keces has eliminated the issue. Even in the last month, auditioning between the two, every once and a while the Peachtree would STILL skip when on the digital IC. MY thoughts are that there is an issue somehow with the power adapter being ungrounded in relation to the coax cable... but I have no idea how to explain that.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
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