Music Server options

thejck

I currently have all my music shared and accessed throughout the house via a samba file share.

I was wondering if there is a way to maintain a central library that is organized that I can pull up on any other computer in the house and play my flac's using (foobar?) whatever media player that will continue to give me my bit perfect output.

I currently use foobar to achieve bitperfect from my other computers. I dont want to have seperate libraries on each of my computers.
additionaly is there a way I can access these flacs from outside of my home network on my android phone with maybe some sort of transcoding to a lower format to be able to support the limited upload bandwidth that these cheap cable internet allows.

Thanks for any ideas.

j1mmy

XBMC 12.3 will play the flac's and a central MySQL server will allow the central library. http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW-TO:Share_libraries_using_MySQL

There is xbmc for mobile devices as well. http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Hardware
Access from outside your home is getting advanced since you'll be on some remote network trying to get back into your home network probably through a firewall. External NAT would be needed and ports opened up. I'm unsure how well access from the outside would work once you have it all setup.

nspindel

Logitech killed off the Squeezebox, but you can still download their server software for free, and then run softsqueeze on the other computers. This does exactly what you want. You can also get the iPeng app on an iOS device and pay a bit extra for it to act as a player, and then your iPhone/iPad/iTouch can share the library as well. If you go that route, you can open up a port on your router and connect from an iOS device remotely - I use this route to stream my library to my car.

mccarty250

J1mmy, I second your motion with XBMC and it's what I'm doing as well.

mccarty250

Thejck, I'm confused, if you already have shares then you should have a centralized repository right? I just have a central server with my entire collection and then my remote streamers/computers running XBMC/Foobar/whatever all map drives to this central repository. Am I missing something?

nspindel

It's not just a matter of having a central repository, you also want to have a central store of your metadata database. That's what's nice about the Squeezebox solution, it maintains a database on your server, then any client can connect and browse by genre/artist, etc. When you add new music, it is instantly available to any client.

mccarty250

The XBMC mysql centralized metadata DB handles that if you go with that universe. It's pretty ridiculous that the squeezebox got killed off, did it not sell? People truly seemed to love them.

nspindel

mccarty250 wrote: »

It's pretty ridiculous that the squeezebox got killed off, did it not sell? People truly seemed to love them.

It sold to a niche, but I don't think Logitech was looking for a niche product when they bought slimdevices. It really is a shame, because it's such a great product. I hate when a big company buys a little company and then tanks the product. Logitech decided that what was stopping it from being appealing to the masses was the need for it to have a dedicated server, so they rebuilt the Squeezebox Radio firmware to make it strictly an internet streaming platform, and now sell that rebadged as an UltimateEars product, which is a brand they picked up when they bought out a small earbuds company. They killed off all the other Squeezebox products. You can take an existing Squeezebox Radio, and install the new firmware if you want. I still have two of them with Squeezebox firmware, plus my BolderCable modded Touch, and several iDevices running iPeng. A side effect of Logitech killing off the Squeezebox is that BolderCable went out of business, since most of their volume was power supply and audiophile upgrades to Squeezeboxes. Damn shame....

mccarty250

I got to play with a squeezebox setup at AKFest a few years ago and indeed it was impressive. Probably didn't appeal to the mass market as you say. Too bad they didn't just spin slimdevices off and let them continue to do what they did.

czarodzi

I'm also thinking about building a music server from scratch. The computer hardware won't be as much of a challenge as the operating system and the applications. Any recommendations, Windows 7 or 8? 32 or 64 bit? Linux? I've heard a lot of good things about JRiver, just wondering if there were any other options.
Thanks

czarodzi

Oh, yes, also factoring in some way to control it without a keyboard mouse and monitor. I have a lot of Android devices, no Apple. Again, JRiver has Gizmo, anything else good?
Thanks again!

pearsall001

Sonos...awesome music system.

tonyb

pearsall001 wrote: »

Sonos...awesome music system.

Uh....someone still owes us a review there chief.....don't make me put posters up in your neighborhood...LOL.

deafbykhorns

pearsall001 wrote: »

Sonos...awesome music system.

Have you tried to reclock a Sonos?
I'm using the synchromesh which made a dramatic difference

tonyb

deafbykhorns wrote: »

Have you tried to reclock a Sonos?
I'm using the synchromesh which made a dramatic difference

Phil has a synchromesh in with his Sonos already. Don't know if he's still using it with the addition of his new dac though. I have a couple ZP90's, one being a Cullen modded one for 24/96. Once I added a decent dac it made a noticeable difference on 24/96 material. You can't beat the Sonos software....amazing and rock solid.

One thing to note for Sonos users, it is bit perfect....but only when the volume is set at 100% fixed and you use something else like a volume in a dac or pre to control the volume. If your just using the volume control in the Sonos, the lower the volume the less bits you'll get. For back ground music that's not so much an issue, but on the main rig I have the Cullen modded box set to fixed into a Cary exciter dac and just control the volume through the receiver set on analog pass thru. Sounds pretty frickin' good if you ask me, but still a pre with HT pass is on my radar soon. Love the Sonos product....simply love it.

nspindel

Didn't realize you could mod a Sonos for 24/96. How much does the mod cost?

tonyb

Depends.....I did mine when it was new and the mod cost more than the unit....I think 4-5 bones more. You can get it modded for higher, they give you a choice, but they also claim the 24/96 mod sounded the best to them. That was roughly 3-4 years ago so prices may have come down.

Should also note you can find used modded boxes at roughly half price.

deafbykhorns

I thought the 24/96 mod wasn't bit perfect...From my research, it seems both the Cullen mod and the syncromesh are very similar improvements. I liked the idea of moving the syncromesh to a different piece of equipment (apple, computers, transports, etc..) should I change my mind.
The mod cost is $550, the syncromesh is $600

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

Phil has a synchromesh in with his Sonos already. Don't know if he's still using it with the addition of his new dac though. I have a couple ZP90's, one being a Cullen modded one for 24/96. Once I added a decent dac it made a noticeable difference on 24/96 material. You can't beat the Sonos software....amazing and rock solid.

One thing to note for Sonos users, it is bit perfect....but only when the volume is set at 100% fixed and you use something else like a volume in a dac or pre to control the volume. If your just using the volume control in the Sonos, the lower the volume the less bits you'll get. For back ground music that's not so much an issue, but on the main rig I have the Cullen modded box set to fixed into a Cary exciter dac and just control the volume through the receiver set on analog pass thru. Sounds pretty frickin' good if you ask me, but still a pre with HT pass is on my radar soon. Love the Sonos product....simply love it.

Yep, I still run everything thru the Synchromesh then into the DAC...except of course HI-Rez & DSD which run straight into the DAC. Nothing short of amazing!!! Didn't that Cary xciter pump things up to a whole new level for you Tony!!! I knew you would love it.

tonyb

deafbykhorns wrote: »

I thought the 24/96 mod wasn't bit perfect...From my research, it seems both the Cullen mod and the syncromesh are very similar improvements. I liked the idea of moving the syncromesh to a different piece of equipment (apple, computers, transports, etc..) should I change my mind.
The mod cost is $550, the syncromesh is $600

Without the mod you won't get a 24/96 file to even play on a standard Sonos box....if you care about that. I guess it all depends on your use....a good dac on a standard Sonos box is good too, but not as good as the modded ones.

All the Sonos boxes are bit perfect, but only at fixed volume like I said. The software alone is worth the price of admission.

tonyb

pearsall001 wrote: »

Yep, I still run everything thru the Synchromesh then into the DAC...except of course HI-Rez & DSD which run straight into the DAC. Nothing short of amazing!!! Didn't that Cary xciter pump things up to a whole new level for you Tony!!! I knew you would love it.

Amen brother, after I sold off the audio-gd dac....I never found another that floated my boat and frankly was getting used to the sound going straight into the receivers dac. Maybe that's why I was so gushy about the Cary dac....I forgot what a good dac brings to the table. Simply no comparison to a receivers dac.....and that's a flat out fact.

JerryR1verz

Wanna know what happened to squeezebox? It's on mamma's chest... That's where it is and when daddy comes home he doesn't get no rest. Had this one on 45 in 6th grade.

Sorry - couldn't resist.
JR

FTGV

nspindel wrote: »

Didn't realize you could mod a Sonos for 24/96.

Not true hi rez 24/96. The Cullen mod is the addition of a sample rate converter IC that merely upsamples 16bit/44k data to a preset 24/96.Since the SRC chip has it's own reference clock there will be some jitter attenuation also.

deafbykhorns wrote: »

I thought the 24/96 mod wasn't bit perfect..

Technically it's not since the data is essentially being rewritten by the SRC process.

..From my research, it seems both the Cullen mod and the syncromesh are very similar improvements.

Well they are doing essentially the same thing,upconvertion with some added jitter attenuation.The syncro mesh adds another SPDIF recieve/ transmit process to the mix with the requisite additional cable.

tonyb

FTGV wrote: »

Not true hi rez 24/96. The Cullen mod is the addition of a sample rate converter IC that merely upsamples 16bit/44k data to a preset 24/96.Since the SRC chip has it's own reference clock there will be some jitter attenuation also.

Don't know if that's entirely correct. If you start off with a 24/96 file, whats there to upsample ? The mods actually reduce jitter instead of adding it, same with the synchromesh.

If you play a 16/44 file then yes, it upsamples to 24/96. If you start off with a 24/96 file into a bit perfect device, no upsampling is taking place. If you play a 24/192 file, then it will downsample to 24/96. The box like I said gets set from the get-go.

There's much back and forth about upsampling, good or bad. Truth be told all music is either upsampled or downsampled somewhere in the chain between the recording studio and the media you buy it on. Conversions happen along the way, and most purist will tell you the least amount the better. We unfortunately don't have master analog tapes at our disposal, so some conversions are happening before you even apply your own.

Most dacs these days upsample, unless it's a NOS Dac. You'll find the majority of dacs upsample to a certain degree though if called upon to do so. Is that a good thing or bad ? To tell the truth I have yet to hear the differences and frankly like a 16/44 file upsampled....if done right.

But....we aren't talking dacs. The Sonos box modded offers some improvements if it's worth it to you. Be it up sampled, down sampled, or they have 14 midgets in there sorting data out, I don't really care personally. All I care is how it sounds and the ways to improve it, anything else is trivial.

FTGV

tonyb wrote: »

Don't know if that's entirely correct. If you start off with a 24/96 file, whats there to upsample ? The mods actually reduce jitter instead of adding it, same with the synchromesh.

The stock Sonos will not play a native 24/96 file and the Cullen mod does nothing to change that(ie.software) so you are left with only the upsampled file.As I mentioned above it is just a hardware change implementing a sample rate convertor chip and its support circuitry, preceeding the digital output.It is pre set to a chosen rate 96 or 192k at 24 bits.A side benifit of the sample rate conversion process is a reduction in jitter.The Syncro mesh also does the sample rate convertion thus also has the benifit of jitter reduction.

tonyb

Correct, a stock Sonos won't play a 24/96 file. Like I said though, with a Cullen modded box, what is there to upsample if the file starts off at 24/96 then fed to the modded box set to receive a 24/96 signal ? Are you saying it down samples to 16/44 then up samples to 24/96 again ?

tonyb

All the information provided by W4S says the Cullen mods won't allow playback of 24/96 or other hi-rez files. But when I play a file that was downloaded at 24/96, it plays....the dac see's it too at 24/96. So maybe it does down sample then up sample....I dunno honestly. All I care about is it sounds darn good with the dac.

FTGV

tonyb wrote: »

All the information provided by W4S says the Cullen mods won't allow playback of 24/96 or other hi-rez files.

Yes,thus my reply in my original post to nspindle.

tonyb

Well, it plays 24/96 files just fine on mine....

FTGV

It must not be 24/96.Again the Cullen mod is stricltly hardware,(as in the addition of this or similar IC chip.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/sbfs029d/sbfs029d.pdf) There are no changes to the codec/software that would add support for hi rez files.
As for your DAC's 24/96 indicators that would be expected as every file is upsampled to that bit depth and sample rate.
The Sonos looks like a great unit and I was considering one but it's lack of hi rez capability took it out of contention.
I instead went the JRiver PC route.

thejck

Its been a while since I have had a time to tweak things
So I am curious if there has been any improvements in using a PC as a source since the last time I messed with my setup.

Lossless Flac's stored on a file server. I am currently still using Windows 7 -
Foobar - with the WASAPI driver and a optical SPDIF out to my DAC.

I am thinking about upgrading to a USB dac and I want to make sure that my PC source is not a bottleneck.

I have experimented with Jriver and XBMC using Wasapi.

Anyone have any suggestions on ways to improve my setup?