Need help with receiver choice......

sowen010599

I bought an Onkyo 701 about a week ago and I'm wondering if I couldn't have done better. I am looking in the $700.00=800.00 range.

I have been looking hard at the Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX. Anybody else have it? What do you think about i?. It's right in the same ballpark (price wise) with the 701, a little cheaper actually.

I am running Rti100 fronts, Csi30 center , 3 Rti28 for surround and surround back, and a Velodyne CT-120 sub.

So, what do you folks think??

Edit: Traded in the Rti100's, and the Csi30, for Rti70's and a Csi40.

JDOGG

That reciever is awesome! Better looks than the Onkyo to. Lots more connections. I would highly reccomend it over the 701. jd45177 can also give you some input.

Jordan

scottvamp

You bought a GREAT quality reciever. Sounds like cold feet. The Onkyo is a near perfect match for your speakers/budget.
Warm those COLD feet.
NOW - calibrate and ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!:)

sowen010599

Cold feet? Maybe. Let me explain things a little and maybe you can get a better feel for things. ***long post warning*** LOL

This is a huge upgrade for me and I did it all at once. I was running an H/K AV120 with an Advent center, 4 Sony bookshelf speakers, and the Velodyne. I know it was crap, but that setup was still 10 times better than any HTIB I have every heard! I knew I wanted the Velodyne and that was half my budget at 599.00. That was 3 years ago.

I was already leaning HARD toward the Polk's but I still demoed several other brands before I came back to Polk. I shopped around locally and went to several other shops in Fort Worth and Dallas and I kept coming back to Polk. I know the Rti100's don't get much love around here. It seems the Rti70 gets the nod around here for a better midrange. To me the Rti70's sounded thick and too warm, almost muddy to me. After listening to several other brands and models, I made the decision to go with the Rti100's. To me, they have a wonderfully musical range, stunning clarity, and amazing definition. This is coming from someone who has played real music in jazz-bands and orchestra's for better than 14 years (I'm a brass player ). I know what the real thing sounds like and have a good ear for it.

Needless to say, after spending all that money for the new speakers, the H/K and its piddly 45 watts/channel left a lot to be desired. A couple of my friends run Onkyo's and I did a lot of research and found the 701 to be the model that suited me well. It has great reviews so I felt comfortable about the purchase.

I set the 701 up and calibrated it. It has a great range and is VERY dynamic but one thing about it really bothers me. When I have the thing calibrated at 75db across the board, subwoofer response in movies is perfect and "right-on", but when I listen to a CD or the tuner, the subwoofer is dead and does nothing. If I turn the sub up enough to sound good for music, it will blow you out of the room during a movie! While these "small-woofer" towers are very smooth, they all lack any kind of low-end bass response. Don't get me wrong, I am not a "bass-head" I just like my music well-rounded and percussion is the driving force in most music. Without that impact, it feels dead to me.

What I did to correct this issue somewhat, was to boost the subwoofer 6db and drop 6db on the LFE adjustment. That brings back the subwoofer response in music, and 5.1+ movies are perfect, however, when watching any kind of TV or DirecTV shows, the subwoofer has FAR too much presence when set up this way. This was never a problem with my H/K. The thought has crossed my mind to go back to H/K but some things about the H/K's I really don't like also. Their remotes are easily the worst in the business. The internal battery fails once every year or so requiring it to be replaced unless you want to recalibrate, and set up the unit again every time you unplug it, which happens frequently living in tornado alley.

While I do not expect the world out of an $800.00 receiver, I do not expect to make compromises at this price level, and this feels like a compromise to me. Overall, I really like the Onkyo. It sounds great and has loads of power. If it were not for this one little issue, I would be completely content with it. I have been looking around again and the Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX is almost the same price as the Onkyo so I was pondering swapping them out. You now how it is, you've got 30 days to make up your mind and an $800.00 purchase is a big deal. I just want to do it right.

If you have any input on this or my problem with the Onkyo TX-SR701, I would LOVE to hear it (please). If you have other brand suggestions, I would be glad to hear them as well. Thanks!

fireshoes

I should know this since I sell Onkyo where I work, but does the 701 remember different settings for different inputs? Maybe a setting is jacked up on cd and tuner, but calibrated correctly on dvd?

I went with the Yamaha RXv2400. It's a grand but the RXV1400 has several of the same features. Onkyo sounds good but I personally preferred the Yamaha sound. Even if sound were a wash, the Yamaha has composite and s-video upconversion to component video and YPAO, which automatically sets up your speaker levels, size, distance, checks phase, and runs a parametric EQ on each speaker to correct for your room acoustics. The 1400 does all that, but with the 2400 you can also control just about everything for the main room, zone 2, and zone 3 from your computer. There's a few other differences between the two that I can get into if you want me to, but that's the direction I went for my HT.

warviper

I own the yamaha rx-2300 and I am verry pleased with it.

hamzahsh

I own Yamaha RX-V1400 which has lot features.

Thick inlet-type de-tachable power cord.
7.1 THX SELECT CERTIFIED
THX SURROUND EX
DPLIIx
YPAO (Yamaha Acoustic Parametric Optimizer)
7 band Graphich Equalizer and 10 band in Auto Setup using YPAO.
Component Video Upconversion

Yamaha 1400 uses very high quality DACs on all channels. 24/192kHz Burr-Brown DACs for Front L/R channels and rest are 24/192kHz AKM DACs.

YPAO feature automatically measures all the distance and adjusts levels for your speakers and size according to room size using YPAO. Very advanced feature.

Yamaha 1400 mates perfect with all Polk Audio speakers. The sound is warm, sweet, mellow and crystal clear. Also very detailed. The bass is very tight and accurate.

The receiver is best for both music and movies. It is one of cleanest and most accurate sounding receiver. I highly recommend this receiver to anybody.

I also run Velodyne CHT-15 and the bass it produces is unbelievabily clean and transparent. The HELM's DEEP Explosion from LOTR-TTT-EE is totally jaw-dropping experience. Especially when the bricks hit the ground you will hear different harmonics in form of echo within the bass. Wow! this driver kicks major butt.

aba4430

Sowen,
If you live close to a Tweeter or affiliated store (Sound Advice in FL for example), listen to both, the Yamaha and the Pioneer. I have had a Pro Logic Yamaha since 1993 (RX-V870) and have a lot of respect for the brand. They are built like tanks with no nonsense power ratings. The newer ones are real flexible with connectivity and the calibration routines. My main setup also includes an Elite VSX-47TX that am nuts about. Build quality and power ratings with the Pioneer are no nonsense as well. I had to play around with my main setup for almost 3 months before I felt that I had the sound dialed in. Main change was to set the RTi100's to small, then everything worked out. The Pioneer also has a sophisticated calibration setup. It is amazing how these things figure out distance etc. of each speaker to within a few inches, including the subwoofer distance. This is a simple example to highlight its calibration capabilities.

The Onkyo brand, I have not used - but have had respect for it and followed it over the years. I considered getting into when I was making my purchases - just ended up with the ones I got because of the "value for money" and features factors. In other words, you really cannot go wrong with any of these brands.

As with one post above, if you have time, I would carefully check the input signal settings of your components to the receiver to make sure everything is normalized. If I had to buy another receiver now (to replace my older Yamaha in my smaller second set-up), it would certainly be the VSX-53TX or the Yamaha 1400, solely due to my experience with the brands thus far.

Regards,

aba

PolkThug

sowen,

That's a great receiver. Are you using your DVD player as your CD player? Try hooking up a seperate CD player to the CD player input on the Onk, and see if you have the same problem with the music bass.

My setup is a little different but I don't have the same problem. I have my sub level set to 0. In the audio setup, I have bass set to +2. I have sub volume knobs set to 12 o'clock position.

I'm sure if you experiment a little more, you will find the combination you are looking for.

Regards,
PolkThug

jd45177

I am in love with my 53TX. It has all the features and versatility I will ever need. The MCACC is nothing short of amazing. My only gripe is with the remote, it's non-illuminated.

As a side, I was shopping with my mother last night in search of a 32" TV for her and ended up with a Toshiba. I have to say two things...BEST BUY SUCKS!

My other comment is: To those of us that have QUALITY speaker systems and set-ups, don't the people that you see in stores listening to Bose and other crap look like complete and total morons? Especially those that think loud=awesome.

sowen010599

OK folks.......

I called the owner of a local home theater store and asked him a slew of questions. He suggested I call Onkyo, so I did. I talked with the tech support folks about the issue I am having with the 701. They said I would have to change the speaker levels depending on what I wanted to listed to. Simply put, when I change from a movie to a CD, I need to go into "level calibration" and adjust the subwoofer level. To me, that is not acceptable. I set up my db meter and measured the difference between subwoofer output in 2 channel music and 5.1+ movies. Music is 20db down from movies. That's a lot. Just for grins, I hooked up my old H/K and did the same measurements. With 2 channel music, the sub output was 3db ABOVE what it was in 5.1+ movies. To me, it makes the the Onkyo seem flawed in that aspect.

I am using a separate CD player and I've tried a variety of input options. I tried CD's in the CD player using optical and RCA outputs. I tried CD's in the DVD player using optical, coaxial, and RCA. All with the same results. I have the same issue with the tuner. I have read of no others having this same issue with this receiver so I am wondering if it may be something is wrong in this unit itself. Regardless, it is going back today if for no other reason than Onkyo's solution to the issue I am having.

So, here we go.......
I am looking at either the Yamaha RX-V2400, the Marantz SR-7400, or the Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX. All things being equal, they have very similar features and prices. Please help me pick one. I am looking for your objective opinions please.

hamzahsh

Go with Yamaha RX-V2400!

sowen010599

Anybody else? The poor 'ole Visa Check Card is feelin' a might bit itchy today......lol

polkatese

I would put my vote on Pioneer Elite, since it is such a reliable brand (I own several) and customer service is top notch. I read not-so-promising feedback about Marantz 7400 quality control issues. No opinion on Yammie.

So there, you have the excuse to cure the itch

scottvamp

Not a fan of Yammie. Out of the 3 i like the Marantz. I also like the Denon line. I still don't understand what the problem with Onkyo was. Your going to have that source "bass" difference with any unit. Good Luck and have FUN!!!!
PS: my check card "itched" and then I was broke. :eek:

sowen010599

I know that, but with the Onkyo, it's DRAMATIC. In two-channel mode, with the fronts playing at about 100db, you can hold your head directly in-front of the sub and hear NOTHING. It doesn't matter if the towers are set to large or small, or if double bass is on or off.

I am off to do some demos. I returned to Onkyo and I'm going to go demo the Yamerhamer and the Pioneer Elite.

JDOGG

Another vote for the Elite.

danger boy

i don't have any experience with either of the two receivers you are using or looking at.. I'm a Marantz man myself. ha ha.

but i can say that.. DVD's and movies will ALWAYS give you better and deeper bass.. the way they are burned and processed is much more musical range that you could get from a regular CD.

remember CD's only contain 16 bits of infomation... that lack of range limits the amount of information that can be included on a CD. so limits usually are set.. to what is most acceptable.. that limts the amount of bass response on CD's. whereby the expanded range of DVD's, being around 20 to 24 bits can and does include much more information on them.. ie: better dynamics with includes deeper bass.

Yeah i when i listen to a movie then change over to a CD, bass is lacking as well.. and i have a decent SVS 20-39PCi. which is awesome to boot. so i have to up the bass when listening to a CD usually. it's not a problem of the receiver. it's the limits of the disc you are listening to.

sowen010599

Well folks, I had quite an adventure. I visited my local Pioneer/Denon and demoed the 53tx and the 3804. I am sure he was quite sick of me as I was there for seveal hours. Both are fantastic units. Then I made a road trip to an "out-of-state" Yamaha dealer (we don't have one locally) and checked out the RX-V2400. None of these receivers had the bass issue the Onkyo did. Sure you loose a couple db going from source to source but it was not DRAMATIC and quite acceptable.

With two-channel sources, the Denon had a slightly harsher sound than the Pioneer but that was only noticeable when doing a direct A/B comparison. Either one sounded great on its own. The Pioneer sounded more open, but with that openness came a less defined sound stage when compared to the Denon or Yamaha. Both the Denon and the Yamaha have more features than the Pioneer. To get the same features from an Elite, you would have to buy the flagship 59txi. I looked at the Marantz sr7400 but the salesman steered me clear of it saying that several who have purchased it have had problems with it. The Yamaha dealer did not carry Denon or Pioneer so I could not do a direct comparison but I did take notes. The Yamaha was very smooth yet more dynamic than the Denon or Pioneer. It seemed to being spreading the music out in front of you rather than simply playing it (if that makes any sense). It was not bright or harsh even though it was paired with metal dome Paradigms. The sound stage was extremely well defined but still very open with a good "enveloping" feeling.

In movies, the Yamaha and Pioneer were very similar. They both had amazing clarity and ambiance with lots of reserve power. However, the Pioneer seemed to be less dynamic than ether the Yamaha or Denon. With the Denon, dialog seemed to get lost a little, especially in action sequences.

The Yamaha's 9.1 demo was impressive. The two additional front "presence" channels added a great deal to the ambiance of the presentation. 3d sound placement was amazing in 9.1. Bullets in The Matrix 2 were flat-out scary. You could hear where in the room the were. They didn't simply move front to back.

None of these dealers offered a "demo" program. Any return had a re-stock fee. All the demos I did were done there but on the same Paradigm Reference speakers (both places were Paradigm dealers).

All-in-all, they were very comparable. No unit was clearly "better" than the other but they all had there own character. Personally, I thought Yamaha did it better this time. It had more features than the other two and sounded amazing. Not a clear winner, but a winner just the same. I bought the Yamaha RX-V2400. The dealer is shipping it to Yamaha right now for the DPLIIx upgrade and Yamaha is going to ship it to me (he did this for free). I should receive it next week. I HATE WAITING!

Thanks for the help and input guys!

JDOGG

Hey congratulations! I'm sure you will be very happy with it. Enjoy!:)

hamzahsh

CONGRATULATION!

Yamaha 2400 wins! yes. The sound will be even better on your polks. I use Yamaha 1400 which is exact same receiver just 10watts less, No RS232, Video out in Multi-room and that's it. I don't need that and I saved $200 over Yamaha 2400 and $200 discount on it. I went home with $400 of savings. Cool!

I'm glad that you heard the receiver and loved its clean, warm powerful sound. You'll be amazed on your Polks. Make sure to use YPAO to calibrate the speakers. Yamaha 1400/2400 uses 10-band automatic Equalizer for each channel to calibrate the right sound for the speakers.

Mine is DPLIIx upgraded. I use STRAIGHT MODE for 2-channel stereo music which uses Subwoofer.

Yamaha uses different DACs then Denon 3803 and Pionner Elite.

I contacted Yamaha Canada for the DAC info.

Yamaha uses Burr-Brown 24/192kHz for Front L/R channels. AKM 24/192kHz for Center, Surrounds, Back Surrounds, Presence and Subwoofer.

Yamaha 1400/2400 are the best!

TrappedUnder Ice

funny.>>I just went through the same ropes... Elite vs. Denon vs.Yammie
I have 2 other Yamaha's at home... both like tanks! So I thought I'd check out others for fun.. features and sound wise...The 2400 holds its own!

Set it up yesterday...but have not had a chance to callibrate it. Will have to do so this weekend. I must say the componant upgrade conversion is sweet!

Congrats on your purchase!

hamzahsh

Another vote for Yamaha 2400!

sowen010599

Votes are no longer being tallied, especially for the RX-V2400, that's what I bought!

I just HATE the WAIT!!

JDOGG

When do you expect it will be at your hose?

VR3

Great choice, that is what I would have chose also.

I miss my old Yamaha receiver

Great value for the money.....................

But now I have a 100 dollar Klipsch preamp and a large stack of amps and wouldnt have it any other way

You have a great receiver, when you get your Yamaha, turn on HALL -- Listen to that setting, get ready to DROOL! It sounds friggin REAL.

sowen010599

Well folks, I got the RX-2400 in yesterday. I have to say, I am amazed with it. It sounds amazing! I really have to hand it to Yamaha. Feature-wise, this thing is friggin loaded. I set up the receiver control software through the serial port, simply awesome. Now I have to build another computer to put in the theater room. DPLIIx is cool but overrated. I don't think it was worth the wait.

I should reiterate, out of every receiver I demoed, this was the best, and I demoed every one I could find. Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, etc. this Yamaha was tops. I doubt you could do better for under 3k.

For everyone out there that said the Yamaha's are bright, yes. Yes they are. But, I don't think it's brightness as much as it is detail. Cymbals crash, high-hats sizzle. It sounds the way it's supposed to. Some of the "not so bright" setups I checked out (Krell w/ B&W) were, well, interesting would be a good way to describe it. Some would really like it. The salesman said it was his favorite setup. Ok, great, sounds muffled to me. Truth be told, it was the deadest, most lifeless, crap I have ever heard.

I have played in brass-bands, jazz-bands, and Orchestra's (I play trombone and baritone). Real music is just not that flat. Real music has life and breath to it. It moves, it sways, and it has meaning. Trumpets are bright, cymbals are bright. A good brass player's sound has a bite to it. Some would call that brightness. I call it "true to life". Sure, you stuff a mute in a trumpet, and stick the player in a padded room............that's not bright. It seems many like that sound. To each their own I guess, but for me, if I throw a CD in the player THAT I PLAYED IN, I want it to sound the way I remember it.

If anyone is looking at the RX-V2400 for it's video-up-conversion, forget it, it sucks. When watching a s-video source, up-converted to component, it's awful. The colors are way overdone and everything is dark. A good way to get those "inky" blacks I guess!

Power-wise, it beats the living snot out of those Rti70's! Not much else to say in this department. For only 120 watts per, it's a beast.

One really REALLY nice feature of the RX-V2400 is "Low Frequency Test". It makes it so easy to match your sub and fronts. Using a db meter, I set my crossover and sub volume. It is the easiest way to seamlessly integrate your sub! How else could you go from 250hz down to 35hz and not gain or loose so much as 1 db!? By the way, using this feature, and a meter, I found the best x-over point for the Rti70's to be 60hz.

I think I am done for now. My setup consists of......
Yamaha RX-V2400
R/L Rti70's
C Csi40
SR SL SBR SBL 4 Rti28's
Sub Velodyne 12
Monster Cable everything

Sounds good to me!

TrappedUnder Ice

I'm amazed at your comment on the componant up conversion! Mine works great...None of the issues you mention are there. I run my sat s-video through it... got a better pic then when at the store! Interesting

VR3

I agree with the Krell and B&W. Although not Krell ---- More like Mcintosh. The two paired together with a denon CD player is the most boring stuff I have EVER heard.

I also agree with the brightness comment. I think speakers should have a *vibrant* sound. Which is why I try to sway away from speakers when I hear flat.

Glad to hear you found your receiver that you liked! Enjoy!

sowen010599

Originally posted by TrappedUnder Ice
I'm amazed at your comment on the component up conversion! Mine works great...None of the issues you mention are there. I run my sat s-video through it... got a better pic then when at the store! Interesting

What are you watching it on? I also noticed up-converted signals get a greenish tint to them, when compared to the original source.

Vr3MxStyler2k3
I don't know if I would say "vibrant". I simply believe that whatever media you play, it should sound as if you were there watching it live, and hearing the real thing. To my ears, the Yamaha sounds like it gets very close to it. Another thing, I don't think I ever knew what good stereo imaging was, until now. It's an amazing thing! I played Live's "Lightning Crashes" and on the guitar intro, it sounds like the guitar is swirling all around you, and only with 2-channel stereo and no DSP's!! Anything and everything 2-channel, I play in 2-channel. That is just too cool. I am very familiar with that song and I have never, and I mean NEVER, heard it do THAT before.

hamzahsh

sowen010599,

CONGRATULATIONs! Wasn't it worth the wait. I'm glad you loved the way it sounds and I knew you'll love it.

If you need more help with your new Yamaha RX-V2400 visit,

www.hometheaterspot.com

and read all the posts in Yamaha section. My posts are also there and my user name is VCHT15. Me and other guys are gurus and helped all the people having trouble with there Yamaha receivers.

Chao!