I've been Salked

BlueMDPicker

BTW - I now feel your pain of the past week, Rich. Empty sweet spot awaiting new arrivals.

tonyb

Dude, you have the Gems sitting in a corner collecting dust. Hook 'em up in the mean time, certainly no slouch that's for sure. Damn fine speakers.

BlueMDPicker

The Gems are in the main HT rig now, and probably to stay a long while. They sound fantastic, and (with the bases alone @95 lbs. a copy) they are a chore to slide around.

daboyz

Plus they need to be introduced to artists like Two Chains lol (jk)..... Cause Jump around doesn't count as rap anymore.... DAVE[/QUOTE]

Can "Jump" really be considered rap? Maybe it's old man rap. No the stuff Dan listens to, that's the shiznit. (right)

SCompRacer

txcoastal1 wrote: »

I've got speaker envy, but if you want to simplify your system sell your pre and consider an integrated like the Modwright KWI-200, and if you have issues with the brightness then look at the Hegel 200
Congrats looks awesome as usual

Thanks! Fortunately no brightness yet with the Sanders or Wyreds. I wouldn’t mind getting back into the ModWright camp. Was there for a few years with the signature SWLP 9.0. Main reason for leaving was the DIY DAC. Discrete output was balanced out only so had to get a balanced pre.

tonyb wrote: »

Dude, Rich doesn't do "simple"....not in his vocabulary. Rich has a quest for best possible sound, simple doesn't fit into that schematic. LOL

lol Thanks! I had it simple then went and complicated it. I forgot you just can’t dump speakers into a room and expect them to perform at their optimum without messing with placement.

BlueMDPicker wrote: »

Cool beans, Rich. Glad you have some music again!
(Darn you for showing that pic of the beautiful Class D amps)

I’m happy too! Still too many things getting in the way of serious listening. Wife ill, hospital visits, doctors. Our dentist understands speakers and two channel goodness but our primary doc is a current manufacture Bose type.

I have a feeling that open space you have will be filled soon!

SCompRacer

First off, great speakers, full range to 25Hz +-1.5dB, but large room open to main level. Like 40 feet long. I gave the nethers some help. Two 12" nht B-12d subs. Ed, Dark never sounded better. Loving the Wyred SX-1000 amps/Class A Krell KSL pre combo. Early January will see if the old Class A Krell KSA-250 unseats them.

A room sweep without subs. A work in progress. The lower sweep is what I first heard. Upper is with some placement changes and no treatments behind each speaker.

aboroth00

Couple questions: How come the SPL level you're measuring at is so low? Waterfalls?

BlueMDPicker

One question: Did you buy Russian fur hats for the Soundscapes (damn, it must be cold)?

aboroth00

BlueMDPicker wrote: »

One question: Did you buy Russian fur hats for the Soundscapes (damn, it must be cold)?

Obviously... they're his babies!

SCompRacer

BlueMDPicker wrote: »

One question: Did you buy Russian fur hats for the Soundscapes (damn, it must be cold)?

LOL True to my ruskie heritage, we all have fur hats. The wife bought them soft bath carpets! She was worried about kitty jumping on them. Since one speaker attacked him he hasn't messed with them though. The grills are magnetic, he knocked one off and it hit him. Any speaker attacks now will probably be from the rear....

SCompRacer

aboroth00 wrote: »

Couple questions: How come the SPL level you're measuring at is so low? Waterfalls?

First blood for the new software. Dayton OmniMic V2. Before I was using a Behringer DEQ2496 to do sweeps. After the sweep, I would view what EQ it wanted to apply and graph it. The Behringer would do R and L channel individually.

I may use the DEQ2496 to run the subs LFE input after I get the best speaker/treatment positions. Just apply the lower freq I need. That's the plan anyway....

IF I do a south wall setup, things change for the better with some worse, but then the room is no longer usable for the wife, so I share. The worse is both speakers have corners but I have no wall behind me and can set speakers deeper into room. West wall has one speaker open to main level, but has me breaking the 39% rule with windows/wall behind me.

aboroth00

SCompRacer wrote: »

First blood for the new software. Dayton OmniMic V2. Before I was using a Behringer DEQ2496 to do sweeps. After the sweep, I would view what EQ it wanted to apply and graph it. The Behringer would do R and L channel individually.

I may use the DEQ2496 to run the subs LFE input after I get the best speaker/treatment positions. Just apply the lower freq I need. That's the plan anyway....

IF I do a south wall setup, things change for the better with some worse, but then the room is no longer usable for the wife, so I share. The worse is both speakers have corners but I have no wall behind me and can set speakers deeper into room. West wall has one speaker open to main level, but has me breaking the 39% rule with windows/wall behind me.

mmm... I was just wondering why the SPL level (45-50) you're reading are so low. Usually sweeps are run at around reference (75db). Can't really see what the room is doing with the 1/6th smoothing. It smooths out the dips and peaks too much to make observations. Only thing I see is that 50hz peak which is pretty big. If we can see a waterfall of that, it would be useful. Only tricky thing is that if you don't cross the main speakers and just cross the sub you'll have a bump at around the XO point. 39% rule? I assume that's sitting within 33-38% of a room dimension? Definitely agree putting a speaker in a corner is probably the worst thing you can do. Only other trouble is that if you want to EQ the low end flat, it'll require a lot of amp power.

SCompRacer

aboroth00 wrote: »

mmm... I was just wondering why the SPL level (45-50) you're reading are so low. Usually sweeps are run at around reference (75db). Can't really see what the room is doing with the 1/6th smoothing. It smooths out the dips and peaks too much to make observations. Only thing I see is that 50hz peak which is pretty big. If we can see a waterfall of that, it would be useful. Only tricky thing is that if you don't cross the main speakers and just cross the sub you'll have a bump at around the XO point. 39% rule? I assume that's sitting within 33-38% of a room dimension? Definitely agree putting a speaker in a corner is probably the worst thing you can do. Only other trouble is that if you want to EQ the low end flat, it'll require a lot of amp power.

When I applied EQ I always followed the 4dB max bump rule. Wifes been ill, and I haven't had much time to work at it. I start and then I just listen instead. I had my other speakers dialed in very well with placement/treatment. Treatment placement didn't work as well with the new ones.

I have JRiver and can also apply EQ that way, but I want the fix to work for my vinyl as well. Thanks for the input, appreciate any help I can get.

Oh and yes on breaking the sitting in the 33-38% of room dimension with the west wall setup.

South wall...



West wall.

aboroth00

It's pretty tough balancing performance and room aesthetics and practicality. A 4db bump rule is a good one to follow. However if you try to EQ a ported speaker below it's tuning frequency you might be causing more problems. You might throw amp power at it and it won't do a thing. Remember 3db increase is 2x the wattage. Post a pic of the bass region with less smoothing and a waterfall when you get a chance and we can really see what's up.

As far as the treatments go, I used to have dipolar ribbon speakers for a while and I thought that treating the entire front wall with absorption really deaden things as well as decreasing the ambiance (soundstage). It tightened the imaging but I really preferred the ambiance and liveliness of it. Usually that's what the designs intend to do. You might want to play around diffraction on the front wall instead and put the absorption at the first reflection on the side wall. Putting thick bass trapping behind the LP would help absorb the back wave coming behind you.

I solved most of my peaks in the bass region by carefully selecting my XO point. I tried rolling in the sub while leaving the speakers to play full range. But that just caused a big peak at where the XO point is. Of course using steeper XO slopes you can try and prevent that but I only had the use of 12db/octave slopes. If the 50hz peak is from your speakers you can just roll them off much sooner and position your subs in a manner to roll in to cover that range. Another thing to try is to leave a hole around 50hz as in bring the subs lower i.e. 30-40hz and start rolling your speakers at 60-70hz. Or another thing is to adjust the sub and speakers to the same XO point 50hz and use the phase control to turn the sub 90 degrees out of phase and create a drop there. I would try to solve it without EQ first as even with EQ you haven't done much to the region in the time domain.