How to improve my system for music?

mr_natural78

What I have is in my signature. I like it for HT....seems lacking when I play music. What would you suggest? Upgrade my front L/R to floor standing speakers? Maybe 3 way speakers with a sub in the cab? Do any of you use dual purpose systems or have a separate system for music?

PolkieMan

I have Onkyo TX-NR808 serves up both 2 ch music and 5.1 for movies.
For better music change your fronts I have 2.3 tls. I run 2 channel pure audio

tonyb

Do you listen to music with all 5 speakers or just the 2 fronts ? How big is the room this is in ? Whats the source for music.....cdp, playstation, dvd player, computer ? What cables are you using ?

mr_natural78

It seems week on the low end and maybe even a little in the mid range. Highs seem very crisp and clear though. To me it just doesn't sound very full. I tried 2 channel at first but it seemed weak on the low end with just the l/r rt35i. Seems a little better in 5.1 with the sub. The room is just an average sized living room with an open floor plan and small kitchen and dining area off of it. I can measure it tonight to be more specific. If I had to guess the living room area is 20 or 25 ft by 30 ft or so and maybe 25 x 50 if you count the entire space. The source is through a new sony BD player with built in Wi-Fi. Pandora sometimes. Sometimes playing cd's with it. My entire system is connected with HDMI. Cheap ones. Speakers are connected with 14g plain speaker wire. HDMI and speaker wire both came from Home depot if I remember correctly.

BlueFox

There are an infinite number of things you can do, but they cost money. The more you spend then the better the results. What budget are you willing to spend? Let us help you (spend your money).

treitz3

BlueFox wrote: »

The more you spend then the better the results.

Well, I don't know about all that. There are certainly an infinite amount of different variables involved here and a plethora of bad mistakes resulting in horrid sound can be made with just blowing money at it to get to the goal. Knowing you, I don't think that this was the way you had intended for it to come out. Perhaps you meant to say something along the lines of "The more you have available to spend, then the better your options can be to achieve better results".

Tom

ken brydson

treitz3 wrote: »

Well, I don't know about all that. There are certainly an infinite amount of different variables involved here and a plethora of bad mistakes resulting in horrid sound can be made with just blowing money at it to get to the goal. Knowing you, I don't think that this was the way you had intended for it to come out. Perhaps you meant to say something along the lines of "The more you have available to spend, then the better your options can be to achieve better results".

Tom

Well put...

Easy Runnin

After running audyssey try these settings at your music sources:

Audyssey - music
Dynamic EQ - on
Dynamic volume - light
Music optimizer - on

I have an Integra dtr30.3 so I'm assuming you have these setting. I also have the same fronts and rears with a csi3 and psw111.

tonyb

mr_natural78 wrote: »

It seems week on the low end and maybe even a little in the mid range. Highs seem very crisp and clear though. To me it just doesn't sound very full. I tried 2 channel at first but it seemed weak on the low end with just the l/r rt35i. Seems a little better in 5.1 with the sub. The room is just an average sized living room with an open floor plan and small kitchen and dining area off of it. I can measure it tonight to be more specific. If I had to guess the living room area is 20 or 25 ft by 30 ft or so and maybe 25 x 50 if you count the entire space. The source is through a new sony BD player with built in Wi-Fi. Pandora sometimes. Sometimes playing cd's with it. My entire system is connected with HDMI. Cheap ones. Speakers are connected with 14g plain speaker wire. HDMI and speaker wire both came from Home depot if I remember correctly.

Well, to start off, you have a fairly large room there and small speakers, which btw the RT series are built more for HT than music. The sub will have a hard time pressurizing a big room, especially one that's open to another room. You have multiple problems to address, but for starters I would first look at some better front speakers, and better cables. The worlds your oyster depending on budget. Throw out a general ballpark of a budget and we can help you get to where you want to be.

BTW, have you played with any of the settings in the receiver ?

heartystatue

I have the same reciever you have the txnr-809. It took me a while to get everything set up correct on the menu side. One thing I can tell you is I change the reciever off of the Dolby mode and turn off the audessy when listening to 2 channel. I also use the Dynamic volume when listening at low to moderate volumes. If you already do this then you are prolly ready for some floor standers. I ran my 2.3's off this reciever for quite a while and they sound great. Just my .02

BlueFox

treitz3 wrote: »

"The more you have available to spend, then the better your options can be to achieve better results".

Yes, a bit better. I was answering from my iPhone, and hate typing on it.

mr_natural78

Easy Runnin wrote: »

After running audyssey try these settings at your music sources:

Audyssey - music
Dynamic EQ - on
Dynamic volume - light
Music optimizer - on

I have an Integra dtr30.3 so I'm assuming you have these setting. I also have the same fronts and rears with a csi3 and psw111.

I will change a few of these settings and see what difference it makes.

mr_natural78

tonyb wrote: »

Well, to start off, you have a fairly large room there and small speakers, which btw the RT series are built more for HT than music. The sub will have a hard time pressurizing a big room, especially one that's open to another room. You have multiple problems to address, but for starters I would first look at some better front speakers, and better cables. The worlds your oyster depending on budget. Throw out a general ballpark of a budget and we can help you get to where you want to be.

BTW, have you played with any of the settings in the receiver ?

The sub seems to do ok for movies. I've always had a regular 2 channel stereo for music before. I still have my old 2 channel stereo but i'm using it in my booth at work. Even the 20 year old sony 2 channel stereo sounds better for music to me. I think what is bothering me is I just don't like music in 5.1. Not really sure why. Maybe because I'm just used to 2 channel. To me it just sounds better. I've only had this receiver for about a month. I'm still playing with the settings and learning what everything does and trying to figure out what works best for different things. This is the first decent a/v reciever I've had and all the bells and whisles and different modes is still confusing to me. The reason I wanted to get a set of rt55i or rt800i was to get bigger front L/R speakers because i'm not happy with this set up for music. I'm starting to think i may be happier going with rt1000i/p, rt2000i/p. Something that will have a subwoofer in the front L/R. As for a budget...I havent really thought about it yet. I won't be buying any new high dollar speakers though. I just can't afford that. I will be in the market for more vintage/used gear. Something along the lines of the models I mentioned...or possibly something similiar if you guys think I'd be better of with something else? I dont really want to spend the money on better speaker cable yet. I've been reading up on it some and when I upgrade I think I will buy quality wire and build my own with quality banana plugs. I'm about to start building a large media center/wall unit and when it's done the living room will get rearranged so I dont want to mess with speaker cables until that is done.

mr_natural78

PolkieMan wrote: »

I have Onkyo TX-NR808 serves up both 2 ch music and 5.1 for movies.
For better music change your fronts I have 2.3 tls. I run 2 channel pure audio

I didn't know what 2.3 tls were. I googled them and they look like they'd be killer! My reciever has a pure audio setting. What is it?

mr_natural78

heartystatue wrote: »

I have the same reciever you have the txnr-809. It took me a while to get everything set up correct on the menu side. One thing I can tell you is I change the reciever off of the Dolby mode and turn off the audessy when listening to 2 channel. I also use the Dynamic volume when listening at low to moderate volumes. If you already do this then you are prolly ready for some floor standers. I ran my 2.3's off this reciever for quite a while and they sound great. Just my .02

I do not do these things. I'll have to try that out as well.

westmassguy

mr_natural78 wrote: »

I didn't know what 2.3 tls were. I googled them and they look like they'd be killer! My reciever has a pure audio setting. What is it?

"Pure" on an AVR usually means all or most signal processing is bypassed. My Pioneer for example, has three settings, Auto Surround which engages all the various HT signal processing i.e. Dolby DTS etc., Direct, which bypasses everything except the subwoofers, and Pure Direct, which bypasses everything. Pure Direct is what I use for 2 channel listening.
In your case, since you front left and rights are relatively small, you'll need to find the setting with the most direct signal for 2 channel, but keeps the sub in the chain. I would re-visit the owners manual, and review all the various setting your receiver is capable of.

leftwinger57

Mr Natural, I had the same type of problem, wanting more from the music side of things ,movies were impressive but music on the other hand was very weak even going in 2chl or pure direct mode.Now it wasn't the Klipsch smalls I was impressed and liked them better than anything in their class so it was the avr and it's lack of power.The magic happened when I got an Adcom 200 watter and used the preouts on the avr and my music dillema was solved.Still I went on to get a sepeate pre/amp to go full 2 chl. and have it used as is or run a multitdude of sources through the pre such as my i-pod, i-net radio ,tt, cdp.Purists feel 2 chl should be dedicated to just that 1 source and I firmly disagree w/ why limit yourself.On my Yamaha pure direct shuts all nonessential circuits off and concentrates on your front 2

cfrizz

I would also recommend getting a separate amp to plug into your receiver. Get a 5 channel 200wpc @ 8ohms amp and enjoy. This much power will ensure that all of your speakers are operating to their full potential whether in 5 channel mode or 2. All speakers benefit from more power including bookshelves. And receivers today simply don't have what it takes to power them. Add in more channels and the less power you have for all of them. A separate amp will take care of this problem.

With this amp in place, you will be all set now and in the future if you choose to upgrade to other speakers.

Amps to look at:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-sunfire-cinema-grand-signature-2013-10-03-amplifiers-01930 (Here is the one that I have in my own system, I plan to keep it forever!)

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-emotiva-xpa-5-2013-10-18-amplifiers-03811--2

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-adcom-gfa5503-three-channel-amp-2013-09-27-amplifiers-63117-richmond-heights-mo

Easy Runnin

FYI - On my receiver, when in stereo mode I have 2.1. You should be able to do that as well.

I find myself switching the fronts and center between 50hz or 60hz. My surrounds are at 70hz and my subs lpf is 120hz. You need to play around with the settings to dial it in.

Personally, I don't think you need a bigger amp. I think mine sounds pretty good and I only have 100wpc. But if I had an opportunity to pick up a pair of rt55is. I would jump on it.

tonyb

I might also suggest the OP read the manual to his receiver....twice, cover to cover. Get a grasp on what everything does, understand it and ask if you don't. That's the first step to better sound imho.

mr_natural78

tonyb wrote: »

I might also suggest the OP read the manual to his receiver....twice, cover to cover. Get a grasp on what everything does, understand it and ask if you don't. That's the first step to better sound imho.

That is what I've been doing for the last few days. I'm not used to having so many bells and whistles. lol.

tonyb

mr_natural78 wrote: »

That is what I've been doing for the last few days. I'm not used to having so many bells and whistles. lol.

I hear ya man, but like I said before, todays receivers have a lot more processing power that the old receivers. More and more like a computer than a piece of audio gear. It can get confusing that's for sure. Take your time, if you don't understand something, just ask.

mr_natural78

Thanks for the help. It is much appreciated. I'll play with my receiver a little more and get to know the settings a little better and go from there.

mr_natural78

Ok. Thanks again for the help everyone. My tx-nr809 came with the owners manual of a disc. I printed all 100 pages and put it in a binder. I've kept it in the living room for quick reference. I ran audyssey again and then double checked the settings. For some reason audyssey was setting the cross over for L/R, center, and Surround all at 40hz. I readjusted them and have the Rt35i set at 50hz since the specs for them say 39hz-26khz. I have the cs245i center set to 60hz since the specs for it say 52hz-26khz. I have the Rt25i surrounds set to 60hz since the specs for those say 50hz-26khz. That in itself seemed to make a big difference in how everything sounds. Now more of the low frequency stuff is going to the sub and not the others. I've been using stereo mode and that keeps the subwoofer active. I've also been turning off the dolby and audyssey like suggested in this thread. Man did it make a world of difference!!! I still want to find a set of Rt55i or Rt800i to use as my mains and then move the others all back one for a 7.1 set up instead of 5.1 and then add another psw505 sub and I think I'll be pretty happy there. Again...and I can't say it enough...thank you for the help. It is greatly appreciated.

CCNJ

Glad you found some tweaks to make you happy. I have changed my gear many times in my short audio career and it can get expensive so little tweaks should be explored first. With that said, upgrading speakers is always hard to resist as they offer the biggest improvements IMHO.

CCNJ

nbrowser wrote: »

This is why I personally stick with simple easy to use 2 channel receivers...the easier to use, the better imho.

I started out with receivers and full HT setups. I now only own use two channel systems even for HT. For me, it is simple and it works. I don't have all the surround effects but the dialogue sounds great, bass is tight without being boomy (no sub in my setup), and music tracks sound fantastic. Not to say I will never swap out my gear over time but I doubt it will be for a full HT setup.

theoctavist

It escapes me...why audiophile types are always saying to throw money at gear...when in truth , treating the room acoustically/correcting problems/mitigating them will have a bigger effect than ANYTHING(yes, anything) else.


get the room sussed.


that is the way to go. then get more gear.

tonyb

If it escapes you, then you haven't been paying attention. Room treatments are nothing new around here, but they also aren't the be all end all to good sound. Room treatments don't necessarily have to be store bought either. Many things already in your home can act and achieve the same results when placed properly.

halo71

I am so happy he came here to school us all. I feel much calmer now. :rolleyes: