Audyssey pro Calibration, Interesting job I had.
mantis
Posts: 17,200
Whats up guys?
As most of you know I'm not a huge fan of Paradigm speakers. I always find them to be overpriced for the performance and compared to others in the same price class. Yet I always look at them and think "maybe this will be the pair that really impresses me" as if you ever taken time to look at their line, they are some remarkably beautiful speakers. Just take a look at the Studio 100's version 5's and fall in love you can even without ever turning them on.
So I had this job where my client had a Rotel RX1052 he was driving a pair of paradigm Studio 100's that he just picked up. In this 2 channel room, he decided to add video in a Panasonic 50 inch plasma, Blu ray player, Xbox 360, PS3, HD cable and a Apple TV. At first he ran all the video to the Tv, ran out of inputs and ran analog out to the Rotel. He also had all the factory remotes.
This system is a 3rd 2 channel system he has in his house with my favorite being his Totem room, another conversation after I calibrate that room.
So after careful designing, we decided on replacing the Rotel with a Integra DTR80.3. Now most of you are probably thinking why not Pioneer Elite? Well I preferred this way but wasn't against the Integra as sometimes I have found Integra to match Paradigm speakers quite well.
With this Install, another factor in the decision to go with the Integra is the ability to use a PRO CALIBRATION in Audyssey Pro EQ. This requires a License, a full PRO Mic Kit and a PC computer. This offers a much better calibration then the standard mic. IMO this is the only thing I wish Pioneer would offer.
Side note we added a nice Universal remote and RF base in the MX980 and MRF350 which cleans up all the remotes and makes for a much better experience.
So after I got the speakers dialed in for the room to seating relationship, I decided to give them a factory listen with no calibration, large no sub, center or surrounds, just 2 channel. They where somewhat pleasing to listen to. I felt the mid range was standing out a bit and the bass was a bit sloppy. A mental visual of this room is it's 16 feet wide by 21 feet deep by 8 feet high. It has full carpet on the floor with a pocket door in the dead center so you can close the room off from the rest of the house. It is in the basement so behind the pocket doors is a stairway. Also an outside ground level door with glass is off to the right in the back of the room. To the left and right of the room in the front which just misses first order reflections is standard size windows.
Once I got them exactly how I wanted them and couldn't get anymore out of them with placement and angles, I decided it's time to run Audyssey Pro. I went to our dealer login on the website, entered all my info as a Pro Audyssey Calibrator, Got my license and away I went.
The Audyssey pro cal system comes with 50 feet of Mic cable 2 x 25 which makes doing a large room nice. Some theater can get quite large and with the gear in another room, the 50 feet could just make it in those cases. The quality of everything in the kit is very nice and I like the hot red cables, they look cool.
So I ran for the sheer hell of it 8 positions, which I could have stopped at 3 or 5 but they recommend at least 8 for an accurate measurement of the room.
I may have taken 15 to 20 minutes tops to do a full 8 position Pro calibration. due to the fact I only had 2 speakers to deal with.
After this was finished I sat down to listen to my music again and to my surprise, I was shocked in the differences on how these speakers now performed.
First thing I noticed was how smooth the bottom end sounded. Crystal clear blend right into the very last note they where able to play. The Mid range now was transparent and true to the music. I hated omitting it but I actually started to really enjoy these speakers. Now mind you I have Installed these speakers many times, We had them our shop(Where I use to work which again is another story) I have ran them off of krell and Bryston and never really liked them. With this AVR in the DTR80.3 calibrated to this very room I was very pleased with the sound I was hearing to the point I would actually consider using this very setup(Don't tell nobody).
I have done many standard calibrations with the factory mic's Audyssey Preamps and receivers come with. I never once thought it made a difference for the better. I actually went back to old school calibrations and didn't run Audyssey as in many cases it made the system sound worse. I felt it took the life out of some systems in some rooms and when I would compare a mantis calibration vs a Audyssey calibration, I preferred my own over that factory mic.
Honestly sometimes I also prefer my own calibration over MCACC which is Pioneer's calibration that I feel is better in most cases over Audyssey. But generally MCACC makes very nice improvements over most systems in most rooms. I like the 1 calibration point for a KING seat and everyone else gets a off axis experience. That is completely fine with me as I personally don't think in home theater rooms you can make every seat perfect. Thats because I hang on to my 2 channel training and apply it to theater. Probably a hang up but I never experienced better sound sitting anywhere in any theater other then the KING seat or sweet spot if you will.
I didn't take any pic's of this but I am going back to add a subwoofer to this system as I felt the Studio 100's could greatly benefit from a nice paradigm Sub 12. In the Totem room which is another story, I want to add a Thunder for bottom end. He has a awesome pair of Rainmakers that by the way do a killer job all by themselves but can't play the last octaves as most speakers can't.
When I go back to recalibrate and dial in the Totem room, I'll snap some pic's. He has yet another 2 channel room but I didn't go in there yet.
As most of you know I'm not a huge fan of Paradigm speakers. I always find them to be overpriced for the performance and compared to others in the same price class. Yet I always look at them and think "maybe this will be the pair that really impresses me" as if you ever taken time to look at their line, they are some remarkably beautiful speakers. Just take a look at the Studio 100's version 5's and fall in love you can even without ever turning them on.
So I had this job where my client had a Rotel RX1052 he was driving a pair of paradigm Studio 100's that he just picked up. In this 2 channel room, he decided to add video in a Panasonic 50 inch plasma, Blu ray player, Xbox 360, PS3, HD cable and a Apple TV. At first he ran all the video to the Tv, ran out of inputs and ran analog out to the Rotel. He also had all the factory remotes.
This system is a 3rd 2 channel system he has in his house with my favorite being his Totem room, another conversation after I calibrate that room.
So after careful designing, we decided on replacing the Rotel with a Integra DTR80.3. Now most of you are probably thinking why not Pioneer Elite? Well I preferred this way but wasn't against the Integra as sometimes I have found Integra to match Paradigm speakers quite well.
With this Install, another factor in the decision to go with the Integra is the ability to use a PRO CALIBRATION in Audyssey Pro EQ. This requires a License, a full PRO Mic Kit and a PC computer. This offers a much better calibration then the standard mic. IMO this is the only thing I wish Pioneer would offer.
Side note we added a nice Universal remote and RF base in the MX980 and MRF350 which cleans up all the remotes and makes for a much better experience.
So after I got the speakers dialed in for the room to seating relationship, I decided to give them a factory listen with no calibration, large no sub, center or surrounds, just 2 channel. They where somewhat pleasing to listen to. I felt the mid range was standing out a bit and the bass was a bit sloppy. A mental visual of this room is it's 16 feet wide by 21 feet deep by 8 feet high. It has full carpet on the floor with a pocket door in the dead center so you can close the room off from the rest of the house. It is in the basement so behind the pocket doors is a stairway. Also an outside ground level door with glass is off to the right in the back of the room. To the left and right of the room in the front which just misses first order reflections is standard size windows.
Once I got them exactly how I wanted them and couldn't get anymore out of them with placement and angles, I decided it's time to run Audyssey Pro. I went to our dealer login on the website, entered all my info as a Pro Audyssey Calibrator, Got my license and away I went.
The Audyssey pro cal system comes with 50 feet of Mic cable 2 x 25 which makes doing a large room nice. Some theater can get quite large and with the gear in another room, the 50 feet could just make it in those cases. The quality of everything in the kit is very nice and I like the hot red cables, they look cool.
So I ran for the sheer hell of it 8 positions, which I could have stopped at 3 or 5 but they recommend at least 8 for an accurate measurement of the room.
I may have taken 15 to 20 minutes tops to do a full 8 position Pro calibration. due to the fact I only had 2 speakers to deal with.
After this was finished I sat down to listen to my music again and to my surprise, I was shocked in the differences on how these speakers now performed.
First thing I noticed was how smooth the bottom end sounded. Crystal clear blend right into the very last note they where able to play. The Mid range now was transparent and true to the music. I hated omitting it but I actually started to really enjoy these speakers. Now mind you I have Installed these speakers many times, We had them our shop(Where I use to work which again is another story) I have ran them off of krell and Bryston and never really liked them. With this AVR in the DTR80.3 calibrated to this very room I was very pleased with the sound I was hearing to the point I would actually consider using this very setup(Don't tell nobody).
I have done many standard calibrations with the factory mic's Audyssey Preamps and receivers come with. I never once thought it made a difference for the better. I actually went back to old school calibrations and didn't run Audyssey as in many cases it made the system sound worse. I felt it took the life out of some systems in some rooms and when I would compare a mantis calibration vs a Audyssey calibration, I preferred my own over that factory mic.
Honestly sometimes I also prefer my own calibration over MCACC which is Pioneer's calibration that I feel is better in most cases over Audyssey. But generally MCACC makes very nice improvements over most systems in most rooms. I like the 1 calibration point for a KING seat and everyone else gets a off axis experience. That is completely fine with me as I personally don't think in home theater rooms you can make every seat perfect. Thats because I hang on to my 2 channel training and apply it to theater. Probably a hang up but I never experienced better sound sitting anywhere in any theater other then the KING seat or sweet spot if you will.
I didn't take any pic's of this but I am going back to add a subwoofer to this system as I felt the Studio 100's could greatly benefit from a nice paradigm Sub 12. In the Totem room which is another story, I want to add a Thunder for bottom end. He has a awesome pair of Rainmakers that by the way do a killer job all by themselves but can't play the last octaves as most speakers can't.
When I go back to recalibrate and dial in the Totem room, I'll snap some pic's. He has yet another 2 channel room but I didn't go in there yet.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Post edited by mantis on
Comments
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Very nice write up, I have always admired the looks of the Paradigm speakers but I have never heard any, living out here in the sticks. One of these days I really would like to get my ears on a Paradigm setup.Home Theater
Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
Two Channel
Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV -
I have been thinking of making my next big upgrade be to either the paradigm reference or signature series. Maybe after I decide whether I am keeping my Onkyo sc5508 or Anthem AVM 50v, then I will start working on speakers. I really like the onkyo with xt32 with dual subs. I have not really given the anthem a fair chance in my main room, but it does sound great in a single sub system. I have not had the time recently to try out the anthem in the dual sub system since it takes a little more work than xt32.
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I actually Prefer Onkyo over Anthem. Or in my case Integra over Anthem.
I'm not a huge fan of ARC as I have yet to hear a Anthem sound awesome. I do however like ARC on the In wall Paradigm Subs , they sound great.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Nice write up Mantis..
Kind of reminds me of my Best friend and I always going opposites on Speakers and gear..
He was always a Paradigm man and I was a PSB man, saying that I have since sold my PSB and bought the exact speakers you are referring too in Piano Gloss finish they look Beautiful.
Now my buddy has the same but in Rosenut or Cherry and after seeing mine he prefers them to his, when he bought his they did not offer the Piano finish.
I always had Yamaha and he had Pioneer he has a Sub 12 as well.
Now up until a month ago he always preferred his system to mine since I now own the McCormack amp and LD-2 Pre he came over last weekend and I Q'ed up some music on my TT and he was literally BLOWN away he said that is the BEST he has heard the Paradigms sound to date..
He just had a BIG grin on his face sitting in my chair, and on his way home his wife told me he just kept talking about getting better amps and a Pre now..
Big grin on my face, as it's only taken me 25 yrs to get him to admit he likes my sound better now..lol
Oh he's running Rotel amps on a high end Denon receiver after just getting his Pioneer SC-07 into the upstairs tv room.
He also has the Paradigm Perfect bass Kit and wants another Sub 12, he's a Bass freak
Oh and I LOVE the sound of my system now it just keeps getting better the more I listen to it..ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
Very cool, funny how these things work out.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
