Power question

Nightfall
Nightfall Posts: 10,086
edited October 2013 in Electronics
F1Nuts suggestion to nbrowser (Edit: In another thread, obviously) put a question in my mind.

At what point, concerning amplification, is a dedicated line off the circuit breaker necessary? I assume you can't just say x amps can supply x watts? How do you know how many amps an amplifier is pulling from the wall?
afterburnt wrote: »
They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

Village Idiot of Club Polk
Post edited by Nightfall on
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2013
    While power can play a part in getting a dedicated line, I suspect the main reason for a dedicated line is to eliminate as much noise pollution as possible from the line. With a shared line, everything plugged into it is putting noise onto the line. Of course, this noise can go back to the breaker, and then leech in on the dedicated line, but it is probably less than being on the same circuit. When I had my dedicated line installed the audio improvement was obvious by making the background quieter, and sounds more defined.

    One other benefit of a dedicated line is you reduce the number of potential DTCD drops, but this is a new concept and is still being quantified through research.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited October 2013
    Any audio rig will benefit from a dedicated line regardless if it's an AVR, 100wpc amp or a 500wpc amp. It's not just about being able to supply the power it's also about lowering the noise floor.
    I assume you can't just say x amps can supply x watts?

    Yes, you can. For example, a 15 amp line can provide 1800 watts, less the 20% margin required by code for 1440 watts. So, if you have a power amp that has a maximum draw of 1500 watts, you really need a 20 amp/2400 watts line less 20% for 1920 watts. Keep in mind that you also have to use the proper gauge wire. A 20 amp line requires at a minimum 12/2 wire, but you could use 10/2 if you wanted.

    That said I'm going to repeat myself, it's not just about being able to supply the power it's also about lowering the noise floor.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited October 2013
    Understood, thank you guys!
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited October 2013
    F1NUT did a good job explaining the reasons why for a dedicated line and clean power but let me add to that. While true, that any system can benefit, most systems can use a dedicated 15 amp line already available in your home.....as long as you don't have other huge current drawing appliances on that line or noise inducing lights. If your worried about wattage usage, lets keep in mind an amp stores power, it doesn't use it's full rated power all the time the second you turn it on.

    I certainly realize dedicated lines are optimal, but not practical for some of us. A good power conditioner can also offer up some benefit in line noise rejection for those who adding dedicated lines is out of the question. Plus, change out those old standard wall sockets the builder installed to at least a hospital grade receptacle or PS Audio if you want to go a few notches above that. If you combine those 2, a good power conditioner and upgraded wall sockets, your going to realize and hear what a lower noise floor does for your music.
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  • Tornado Red
    Tornado Red Posts: 939
    edited October 2013
    +1 on the noise. I did 2 dedicated 20 amp lines a couple months ago. I hadn't been tripping breakers or anything before, so I was wondering if I'd see any improvement. The noise was the difference, or more accurately the lack thereof. Background noise I really didn't think was there...until it was gone. And with adding amps, subs and such, it's a nice feeling not to be taxing the power coming in.
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    edited October 2013
    Would there be any negative implications of (GOING Bigger) installing a home-run/dedicated circuit to your Rig using 10 AWG and equally rated recepticles ??
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,450
    edited October 2013
    GlennDog wrote: »
    Would there be any negative implications of (GOING Bigger) installing a home-run/dedicated circuit to your Rig using 10 AWG and equally rated recepticles ??

    Nope it would be a no harm what so ever,and give just that much more insurance to free flowing electrons
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  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited October 2013
    GlennDog wrote: »
    Would there be any negative implications of (GOING Bigger) installing a home-run/dedicated circuit to your Rig using 10 AWG and equally rated recepticles ??

    Better is running a heavy wire dedicated circuit from the main breaker box to a central point in your room. Then star out to the equipment outlet boxes. Shorter runs between your components is better than longer runs.

    And yes you can (and sometimes you must) use 8AWG or 10AWG in a 15A or 20A circuit.

    There is no internal difference between a 15A and a 20A dual receptacle. In either all the internal parts are rated at 20A.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited October 2013
    GlennDog wrote: »
    Would there be any negative implications of (GOING Bigger) installing a home-run/dedicated circuit to your Rig using 10 AWG and equally rated recepticles ??

    10 gauge is a bit more difficult to work with, but other than that there is no downside. It will also allow you to use a 30 amp breaker.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited October 2013
    DSkip wrote: »
    I'm assuming a lower noise floor = a more transparent presentation?

    That and mo' better bass.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited October 2013
    The NEC code problem with a 30 Amp breaker circuit is that you cannot use 20A or 15A receptacles.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited October 2013
    Speedskater wrote: »
    The NEC code problem with a 30 Amp breaker circuit is that you cannot use 20A or 15A receptacles.
    In most cases a 15amp breaker would suffice so you can use those standard 15A Hubble hospital grade recepticles.
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  • Tornado Red
    Tornado Red Posts: 939
    edited October 2013
    DSkip wrote: »
    I'm assuming a lower noise floor = a more transparent presentation? I've looked at sockets, but will not do any bigger electrical work as my system is in the 4th bedroom. Our second home will probably get a dedicated 20 amp line, but its not worth the investment here.

    Yes, that's it exactly, a more transparent presentation. There is blackness now where I wrongly blamed some of the "software" before.
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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    edited October 2013
    Dk ??
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    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Rythmik F12
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,567
    edited October 2013
    Speedskater wrote: »
    The NEC code problem with a 30 Amp breaker circuit is that you cannot use 20A or 15A receptacles.

    Don't tell them and all is good. If you ever sell your house just swap in a 20 amp breaker.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • GlennDog
    GlennDog Posts: 3,120
    edited October 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Don't tell them and all is good. If you ever sell your house just swap in a 20 amp breaker.

    the NEC is all about protecting life & property. If working properly, the weak link (breaker/fuse) would "open" before hazard happens . . . but what do I know . . . sounds like all should be okay dokay??

    G
    AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
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