Cut backs

Timothy Smith

rooftop59 wrote: »

The average family of four who once received HC free from their employer will now see a 6-9 thousand dollar swing out of pocket. Only the rich will be able to afford Cadillac policies that once was a staple of corporate benefits.

Tony this is false. Please direct me to data backing up this claim. My wife's co-worker thought that the new "o-care" would only cost 28 a month whereas she pays much more right now through the university plan and doesn't see how that is. The reality a single women making 25 k a year will pay 158 a month for the silver tier, which is one step up. The invented "facts" that people spout over this issue are just insane, and I think most often the result of too much of a certain news organization.

Yes.

If you just don't "watch too much of a certain news organization" everything will be A-OK.

scottyboy76

By the way, im actually in favor of not for profit healthcare, i have known too many people in the ins. biz, trust me they dont give a damn about you or your health.

Problem is govt. is even more slimy.

If they had wanted to actually improve the system as opposed to grab power, one thing they would have done is to allow you to purchase your ins. across state lines, they all said that would be very helpful, and did not include it in final bill.

gimpod

tonyb wrote: »

Anyone of you ever been to a VA hospital ? That's what your national HC will become, only worse.

Have you? Sorry but I have to take offense at this statement. I can't speak for all VA hospitals but the Seattle VA is the best hospital I've ever been to. The doctors, nurses and everybody else I've ever met that works for the VA have been caring and compassionate people who will go out of there way to help you out. In the last 13+ years that I've been going to the VA the only a**holes I've met were other patients.

gimpod

DSkip wrote: »

See post #34. Welcome back, been too long since I've seen your name around these parts.

I think before this bill the government (federal, state, local) were not allowed to cut full timers hours, now the bill allows them to. I'm not sure about this it's just my take on it. I haven't read the bill nor do I feel like spending reading and trying to understand it.

Mikey081057

charley95 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with you on this!

+1 I would say we've been hoodwinked, but if you didn't see this coming.... well ouch ....my tongue

tonyb

rooftop59 wrote: »

Tony this is false.
My wife's co-worker thought that the new "o-care" would only cost 28 a month whereas she pays much more right now through the university plan and doesn't see how that is. The reality a single women making 25 k a year will pay 158 a month for the silver tier, which is one step up. The invented "facts" that people spout over this issue are just insane, and I think most often the result of too much of a certain news organization.

Has nothing to do with any one news organization. Here's just one example.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/24/Obamacare-Triples-KY-Family-s-Insurance-Overnight

Granted, every area will differ some and every situation is also different. I said a family of 4 and you brought up a single persons rates, 2 different ball games. My own corporate sponsored insurance policy that the wife gets just went from 80 bucks a month deducted from the check to 285 bucks. Now we recently got a letter saying it will be 120 more if you smoke. So I know you guys know how do to math, but in my neck of the woods 400 bucks a month is a lot more than the 80 I was paying. Don't tell me it's hogwash because I know first hand.

tonyb

Also there are subsidies involved too if you make under a certain amount of income. There's that evil word again, subsidies. We decry when everyone else gets them, decry that's the reason why government has so little revenue, yet we applaud handing them out to millions of people for this. A tad hypocritical wouldn't you say ? Then on these exchanges too, the lower tiered plans which are also the cheapest limit the doctors you can see. Those doctors will be so backlogged, you'll wait until PFB posts a pic of his Porsche before you see a doc. Not to mention most Doc's will not want to participate in those plans because of the low reimbursements. It's a cluster f%*k no matter how you slice it up.

txcoastal1

DSkip wrote: »

They are required to offer benefits to full time employees, not part time. I don't see how that applies to the city anyways since they surely exceed that limit.

The city exceeds the limit, but not all cities have full benefits and insurance packages, part time went from 32hrs to 28hrs or less.

Its not a big deal that his dept got the cuts he''l survive, but every employer with 50+ employees that can't afford or are greedy will follow suit.

gudnoyez

We have pretty decent healthcare with vision and dental, however the cost per month will be $ 150 a month more unless you qualify for the healthy credit of $150 which means no smoking, a normal BMI for your height, decent cholestrol levels and not overly high blood pressure, if you qualify then you recieve the bonus. Fortunatley me and the wife are qualified but, alot of people who are not are upset. Perhaps next year we will all have to be blonde and have blue eyes!

txcoastal1

kevhed72 wrote: »

Sounds like quite a leap to make this connection.

It was actually stated in the meeting that the city could not afford it, tis the reason for the cut backs by October 1st.

dkg999

Hillary had the best healthcare reform plan, we just didn't realize how good it was at the time. And while there is certainly mis-information that abounds across all of the MSM, there is a huge adjustment in coverage and costs taking place. Some of the costs are not part of the premiums. Changes in what a provider and payer is required to do are also part of the costs. Roll into the ER after getting drunk and doing something stupid, well you might want to read that part of the ACA bill. And full disclosure, I am on the project teams for both a HIE and an EMR initiative.

tonyb

txcoastal1 wrote: »

It was actually stated in the meeting that the city could not afford it, tis the reason for the cut backs by October 1st.

Of course they can't afford it, neither can businesses especially the small and mid size ones which as we know make up a good chunk of the economy. Lets also no forget that if they were to just absorb those additional costs, they'd have to raise property taxes to gain the revenue. Which again, means you pay for it. Any time you add mandated costs/taxes onto a business, the majority of those costs gets passed down to the consumer or end user if you will. So you may feel good about taxing corporations above and beyond but in the end you'll pay those taxes in the goods and services you buy from them. I'm not an anti-tax guy either. Taxes are a necessity to run the country, we all know that. It's the way the money is appropriated that's out of whack. We have the money to tackle a lot of our issues but lack the will power to prioritize on the important ones. Still, to me the most important question is, and btw I never get an answer to, how much as a percentage should a man or woman's labor be taxed ? Is there a limit ? How much can you keep of what you earn . Throw out a number, include local state and federal taxes. 30-40-70-90% ? That's the more telling question imho anyway.

Freedom means different things to different people that's for sure. I feel that the more disposable income you have in your pocket coupled with a variety of choices in all things is essential to maintaining those freedoms. Take away both, stifle free speech and what do you have left ?

txcoastal1

I as a small business owner have cut prices to compete. We're not talking about competing against big big corp, but against each other just to make ends meet. So when is time for us (small business owners) to quit working 70hrs a week and join the entitlement programs and pursue menial jobs.

schwarcw

gimpod wrote: »

Have you? Sorry but I have to take offense at this statement. I can't speak for all VA hospitals but the Seattle VA is the best hospital I've ever been to. The doctors, nurses and everybody else I've ever met that works for the VA have been caring and compassionate people who will go out of there way to help you out. In the last 13+ years that I've been going to the VA the only a**holes I've met were other patients.

Good to see you posting Tony! I hope all is well with you!

+1 on the VA hospital. I was with my father many times in the VA hospital as he was a disabled WWII and Korean War Vet. The quality of care and their facilities were very good. He passed away there and the staff grieved with us. They were like family.

charley95

Correct me if I'm wrong here, did I read read somewhere that Muslims are exempt from O-Care?

charley95

charley95 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, did I read read somewhere that Muslims are exempt from O-Care?

I just read that this is true! Islam considers insurance 'gambling' so they are exempt from O-care penalties.

Don't you guys just love this great country of ours???? If we are Muslim converts are we exempt too?

charley95

charley95 wrote: »

I just read that this is true! Islam considers insurance 'gambling' so they are exempt from O-care penalties.

Don't you guys just love this great country of ours???? If we are Muslim converts are we exempt too?

My blood is boiling right now and so should any other red blooded american!

tonyb

txcoastal1 wrote: »

. So when is time for us (small business owners) to quit working 70hrs a week and join the entitlement programs and pursue menial jobs.

Well now, that's the end game isn't it ? That's the push, that's what "forward" means.

Some of you guys are lucky to have good VA hospitals by you. I've been in some that I must say was rather disgusting and my heart fell on the floor knowing that these are our guys/gals that made sacrifices in here. We can do better, we have to do better, and not just for vets either, for everyone. If we put the money into the places that really need it, appropriate what we have already, instead of all the garbage and fraud and stupid nation building, we wouldn't be having these discussions. How about America first.....citizens of America first. Then we can worry about the other junk after WE are taken care of.


BTW, found this
http://socialsecurityinstitute.com/blog/christians-and-jews-need-not-apply-for-the-muslim-exemption-to-obamacare

Haven't dug into it so still not sure of it's validity. If it's true however, how much proof does one need to see whats going on here and in the world ?

Msabot1

I guess this is THE CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN! You get what you vote for!

tonyb

Just a thought on another aspect of this. We all know many corporations stood up in favor of this HC bill. Now many of the same ones are dumping their employee's into the exchanges. By eliminating the burden of those costs on a businesses balance sheet, they appear to be more stable thus their stock prices will go up. Investors will make money, Ceo's and other executives will meet their numbers for huge bonuses more easily. Home Depot and Walgreens as of late have announced dumping thousands of employee's into exchanges. Also don't forget these first year rates are going to be slowly increased over the next few years. The IRS themselves estimate the average family will see 20,000 dollar policies by the time this is fully implemented. The largest tax increase in our history, as said by the SCOTU. I would imagine most here consider themselves an "average" family. How many of you can afford to shell out, or lose 20k from your yearly income ? Politics aside, this bill will ruin you if you do the simple math.

Still, I'm confused on the logic. We have a HC bill which the people who wrote it still don't understand it, the people who passed it don't know what's in it, and the people trying to implement it don't seem to grasp everything it entails either. Yet this is suppose to be the savior of our HC industry ? Kinda like a mousetrap, and we all know how a mousetrap works. You being the mouse, the IRS is the hammer, and the ACA is the cheese. Only a mouse has a choice to take that risk of getting the cheese, you however will not.

sucks2beme

Add the cost of benefits to the fact that internet shopping has cut a big chunk out of local sales tax
revenue, and you have local government cutting back. It's a two fold hit.

sucks2beme

tonyb wrote: »

Just a thought on another aspect of this. We all know many corporations stood up in favor of this HC bill. Now many of the same ones are dumping their employee's into the exchanges. By eliminating the burden of those costs on a businesses balance sheet, they appear to be more stable thus their stock prices will go up. Investors will make money, Ceo's and other executives will meet their numbers for huge bonuses more easily. Home Depot and Walgreens as of late have announced dumping thousands of employee's into exchanges. Also don't forget these first year rates are going to be slowly increased over the next few years. The IRS themselves estimate the average family will see 20,000 dollar policies by the time this is fully implemented. The largest tax increase in our history, as said by the SCOTU. I would imagine most here consider themselves an "average" family. How many of you can afford to shell out, or lose 20k from your yearly income ? Politics aside, this bill will ruin you if you do the simple math.

Still, I'm confused on the logic. We have a HC bill which the people who wrote it still don't understand it, the people who passed it don't know what's in it, and the people trying to implement it don't seem to grasp everything it entails either. Yet this is suppose to be the savior of our HC industry ? Kinda like a mousetrap, and we all know how a mousetrap works. You being the mouse, the IRS is the hammer, and the ACA is the cheese. Only a mouse has a choice to take that risk of getting the cheese, you however will not.

I don't think the bill did anything to the big business plans. It just has sped up the cycle.
They chopped out pensions, cut back vacations, and health care was next on the list anyway.
You're lucky to have the job. Welcome to 2013.

tonyb

Next on the list to manipulate the balance sheet. A false pretense into the strength of the economy if you ask me. It gets harder and harder to figure out where we stand, as a nation, financially and economically. Everything is manipulated. From balance sheets, to stock markets, to the media, from government, the Federal reserve.....who knows the truth on our stability ? You have to be Sherlock Holmes these days to find any real truth in anything. Is that the intended purpose ?

Speaking of "truth", as Americans we used to entrust the media to supply us with the "truth". Now even that has become manipulated. Now what ?

mhardy6647

I am 100% cool with the exchanges if they give me fairly painless access to a true choice of good quality and affordable health insurance alternatives. Shop a little, sign up, pay and go.

Now, in NH - where I now live- the result of the insurance tumult has been that every company except one that previously offered health insurance for individuals in the state has pulled out of the market there. This doesn't bode well.

tonyb

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I am 100% cool with the exchanges if they give me fairly painless access to a true choice of good quality and affordable health insurance alternatives. Shop a little, sign up, pay and go.

Now, in NH - where I now live- the result of the insurance tumult has been that every company except one that previously offered health insurance for individuals in the state has pulled out of the market there. This doesn't bode well.

C'mon man, look at your neighbors. Romneycare which is a close call to the ACA, hasn't exactly been the beaming light of success.

tonyb

Look, in a nutshell, regardless of your politics or ideology any spending plan has to stand up to basic economic principles otherwise it won't be sustainable. In other words, in the long run someone has to pay for it. It's just that we don't want that "someone" to be us. Right ? When we finally figure out who that "someone" is.....those are the ones screaming the loudest. Everybody wants something for nothing, just nobody wants to pay for it.

mrbigbluelight

Tony, we are the first mouse.
The first mouse gets nailed in the trap, the second mouse gets the cheese.

I would dare say almost no one truly knows what is in the leviathan Affordable Care Act provisions.
For the extremely few who do know what's in it, it would be impossible for them to know the long term effects of this, IMO, monstrosity will be.

In your link there is mention of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' and one of my favorite quotes:
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

This absolutely applies to the ACA.

It has always been my opinion that this country should be able to provide a system for universal health care that is truly affordable and truly effective for EVERYONE.
This rendition of the ACA isn't it, IMO.
How to get it ? Simple. Make whatever system that is proposed apply to EVERYONE, including all 3 executive branches. And their staffs. Treat all "animals" as if they truly were equal.
Then somehow, as if it were magic, a system would be developed that is functional and truly affordable.
If the Supreme Court had known that they would be included in the ACA, perhaps their ruling of "Congress has the power to regulate/rule health care as a tax because health care is interstate commerce" then .... well, maybe their ruling might have been different.

tonyb

Agreed Sir, but isn't it interesting in a nation where supposedly our motto is "all men are created equally", we constantly create laws that propose the opposite.

brgman

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Tony, we are the first mouse.
The first mouse gets nailed in the trap, the second mouse gets the cheese.

I would dare say almost no one truly knows what is in the leviathan Affordable Care Act provisions.
For the extremely few who do know what's in it, it would be impossible for them to know the long term effects of this, IMO, monstrosity will be.

In your link there is mention of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' and one of my favorite quotes:
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

This absolutely applies to the ACA.

It has always been my opinion that this country should be able to provide a system for universal health care that is truly affordable and truly effective for EVERYONE.
This rendition of the ACA isn't it, IMO.
How to get it ? Simple. Make whatever system that is proposed apply to EVERYONE, including all 3 executive branches. And their staffs. Treat all "animals" as if they truly were equal.
Then somehow, as if it were magic, a system would be developed that is functional and truly affordable.
If the Supreme Court had known that they would be included in the ACA, perhaps their ruling of "Congress has the power to regulate/rule health care as a tax because health care is interstate commerce" then .... well, maybe their ruling might have been different.

Well said sir!

WLDock

Will all that don't care for the ACA or the current administation in general please sound off about how you felt about your health care before 2009?

Myself, I grew up the son of an UAW auto worker so I always had good insurance coverage until I was 18. Once I started working the coverage offered by my employers was good and generally was free to me or a small $40-$150 a month cost for my family.

Today, I pay $267.47 per pay period(2xMonth) for my family of four. That totals $6419.28 a year!!! Also, the deductables are more. While I'm still learning more about ACA and don't have a firm stand one way or the other...i know for a fact that something needs to change.

You guys that are jumping up and down about Obama....Hell, I've been jumping up and down waay before he took office. I know I'm not alone?