I am going to take the plunge

Steven72555
Steven72555 Posts: 35
edited September 2013 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I can't find any new speakers out here that wasn't made for home theater sound.
So.. I am going to build my own.
This is what I was looking at to put into the speaker.
Dayton Audio ST210-8 8" Series II Woofer
Aurum Cantus AC120/50CK 5" Midwoofer <this size may change
Morel CAT 408 1-1/8" Compact Soft Dome Tweeter
Dayton Audio XO3W-500/4K 3-Way Crossover 500/4,000 Hz


I figure I couldn't do any worse from what I have seen.
Post edited by Steven72555 on
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,604
    edited September 2013
    What speakers have you looked at? Budget?

    Are these drivers and XO's based on a current known design?
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    Dayton Audio XO3W-500/4K 3-Way Crossover 500/4,000 Hz


    I figure I couldn't do any worse from what I have seen.
    I hate to be a debbie downer but using an off the shelf formula based crossover such as that usually results in less than great results even if you use excellent drivers.The reason being is that the values used assume the drivers have perfectly flat frequency response and present a purely resistive load.Niether is the case so the result is less than ideal driver blending.A crossover must be designed specifically for the drivers used and requires accurate frequency response and impedance measurements.If you want to do DIY I would suggest looking at some of the excellent fully developed designs from the likes of Zaph Audio's, and conbributors at Parts express tech talk forum and Meniscus web sites etc..http://meniscusaudio.com/kits-c-133.html http://www.zaphaudio.com/
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited September 2013
    I can't find any new speakers out here that wasn't made for home theater sound.

    Either you haven't looked very hard or in the wrong places as there are a vast quantity of speakers out there made for 2 channel.
    Location Twinsburg, Ohio

    I've got family around your area, you're going to look around the Cleveland area.

    In Shaker Heights, http://donbetteraudio.com/products/loudspeakers/

    Another, http://www.audiovisions-online.com/homeaudio

    Of course, you can always shop online at Polk's eBay store. The LSiM series are aimed at music lovers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited September 2013
    Another great spot in Cleveland is Audio Craft on Carnegie Ave.
    http://audiocraft.com
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited September 2013
    Generic crossovers are the bane of the DIY world.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited September 2013
    DSkip wrote: »
    There's a great spot in Cleveland?
    Lot's of them, if you know where to look.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited September 2013
    Not only are driver measurements from manufacturers inaccurate at times, but the cabinet they're placed in can have a huge influence in frequency response.

    Start here:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?219617-The-Speaker-Building-Bible
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited September 2013
    chumlie wrote: »
    Lot's of them, if you know where to look.
    I think he was being sarcastic, facetious, what have you.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited September 2013
    No, he wasn't. Lots of nice places there.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Steven72555
    Steven72555 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    Face wrote: »
    Not only are driver measurements from manufacturers inaccurate at times, but the cabinet they're placed in can have a huge influence in frequency response.

    Start here:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?219617-The-Speaker-Building-Bible
    I had a Parts Express tech guy give my cabinet plans with my choice of speakers in mind.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited September 2013
    Again, either you haven't looked very hard or in the wrong places as there are a vast quantity of speakers out there made for 2 channel.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Steven72555
    Steven72555 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Again, either you haven't looked very hard or in the wrong places as there are a vast quantity of speakers out there made for 2 channel.
    Where do you live? What is your stereo set up?
    I live outside of Cleveland, and there isn't much in the way of REAL stereo dealers out here.
    Everyone is so hyped up with the home theater sound. I have looked.
    I am also not going to 700+ dollars for one speaker.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited September 2013
    [HTML][/HTML]
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    I am also not going to 700+ dollars for one speaker.

    Is that because you can't afford it, or just a matter of principle thing?

    If economic then try to work out a way. If a matter of principle then that is just stupid.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Steven72555
    Steven72555 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    You know what..
    This thread was started because I was hoping for some "constructive" hints and ideas on how I can build some speakers. After all, I am in the DIY subforum.
    No its a freakin debate over what I can or cannot afford.
    I shall assume there is nobody that can build speakers that wants to help me out here.

    So, I will consider this thread closed and I'll go look elsewhere for some constructive help.

    Thanks anyway.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    Where do you live? What is your stereo set up?
    I live outside of Cleveland, and there isn't much in the way of REAL stereo dealers out here.
    Everyone is so hyped up with the home theater sound. I have looked.

    I know where you live, I addressed that in post #4, but here it is again. Both are REAL stereo dealers.

    In Shaker Heights, http://donbetteraudio.com/products/loudspeakers/

    Another, http://www.audiovisions-online.com/homeaudio

    Of course, you can always shop online at Polk's eBay store. The LSiM series are aimed at music lovers.
    I am also not going to 700+ dollars for one speaker.

    I had a feeling that was the real issue.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited September 2013
    Madisound is very good.
    Jake
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,652
    edited September 2013
    You cabinet/dimensions appear to be for a single full range driver but then your driver/crossover compliment suggests a 3 way design.
    Stuff a 3 way design into a cabinet designed for a single full range driver is going to be anything but musical.


    Nobody is shooting down your idea of building your own speakers. But if you have never done it before, it is FAR better to start with a kit rather than the TONS of trial and error you are going to go through trying to get your random individual drivers and pre-fabbed crossover to work right together.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • Steven72555
    Steven72555 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    You cabinet/dimensions appear to be for a single full range driver but then your driver/crossover compliment suggests a 3 way design.
    Stuff a 3 way design into a cabinet designed for a single full range driver is going to be anything but musical.
    THAT cabinet design was given to me by one the Parts Express "Tech" guys after I told him what woofer I wanted to put in there. I even questioned him on that choice.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,446
    edited September 2013
    A pair of Magnepan MMG's could be yours for 599.00 plus shipping. They will run circles around what you are proposing.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,901
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    I can't find any new speakers out here that wasn't made for home theater sound.
    ...

    Umm, there are a few.
    Here are some:

    http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php
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  • Steven72555
    Steven72555 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Umm, there are a few.
    Here are some:

    http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php
    That was a screwed up suggestion.
    Do you own a pair?
    Have you heard a pair?

    Did you even check the prices on those?
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    That was a screwed up suggestion.

    Why is that a screwed up suggestion? Your original statement was "I can't find any new speakers out here that wasn't made for home theater sound." Harbeth speakers are designed and built for musical enjoyment and not theater. He exactly addressed your questions.
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    Do you own a pair?
    Have you heard a pair?

    Did you even check the prices on those?

    Yes, I believe he owns a pair; or at least a few of our members do.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited September 2013
    Here are two speakers from Madisound that are expertly designed, and even come with cabinets at around $400 a pair:

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/preassembled-speakers/rhyme-acoustics-nuscale-216-2-way-pair/

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mtm-speaker-kits/zaph%7Caudio-za5.3-mtm-pair-with-cabinets/
    Jake
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  • Steven72555
    Steven72555 Posts: 35
    edited September 2013
    zingo wrote: »
    Why is that a screwed up suggestion? Your original statement was "I can't find any new speakers out here that wasn't made for home theater sound." Harbeth speakers are designed and built for musical enjoyment and not theater. He exactly addressed your questions.



    Yes, I believe he owns a pair; or at least a few of our members do.

    6000 usd a pair?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,901
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    That was a screwed up suggestion.
    Do you own a pair?
    Have you heard a pair?

    Did you even check the prices on those?

    No
    Yes
    Yes

    They are superb. They weren't designed for home theatre.
    For more affordable options, there are some very nice Pioneers now available designed by their (TAD's) Andrew Jones.

    ... and plenty of things in between.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    6000 usd a pair?

    Their P3ESR speakers start at $2300 a pair.
    Jake
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,446
    edited September 2013
    DSkip wrote: »
    Wanted to add, if you go the Maggie route, be sure the subwoofer is nice and quick. Don't go out and get a 12" $300 sub, 'cuz it ain't gonna keep up.

    There is a 3 piece option for them from Magnepan that includes a sweet little sub panel...

    http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,901
    edited September 2013
    Magneplanars are fine but pretty power-hungry...
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,446
    edited September 2013
    Not as deep as I would like, but it is very fast and detailed, without being boomy. It will take the MMG to a level very near the 3.7's IHMO.

    As far as power hungry goes, so long as the amp will tolerate a 4 ohm load, they can sound quite nice with 50 watts...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited September 2013
    Steven72555 wrote: »
    You know what..
    This thread was started because I was hoping for some "constructive" hints and ideas on how I can build some speakers. After all, I am in the DIY subforum.
    No its a freakin debate over what I can or cannot afford.
    I shall assume there is nobody that can build speakers that wants to help me out here.

    So, I will consider this thread closed and I'll go look elsewhere for some constructive help.

    Thanks anyway.

    Did you read posts 3, 7, and 9?

    One poster has been published in a very popular DIY loudspeaker book, the other has won a couple of DIY competitions, both provided helpful information. Or is it you're just not hearing what you want to hear...?

    Just curious, what is the difference between a speaker designed for 2 channel and one designed for HT? A well designed speaker should be able to do either proficiently.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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