the worm has turned

leftwinger57

Well the process has begun.I did this old school over the phone, tracked down leads and wamo Dynamat Extreme is here.This is either going to drive Heiny nuts or make him oh so proud that I do listen if the consensous is wildly
for the improvements. Now if you think I'm going to start to pull speakers before getting the tweeters no that makes absolutely no sense to me, do it all in one shot.I have 0 confidence about doing the x-overs so that might just have to hang.So the exposed piece was free at an auto detailer audio hole in wall place that had it just lying around and the pkge was $20 from IEI if needed.
On serious note ,I should know this before I do anything when removing the drivers,and passives do you leave the cabinets verticle or lay them down on some nice fluffy blankets.

drumminman

When I pull the drivers to mod mine I lay them on their backs.

leftwinger57

Nice ,see in my norrow minded world I would think the opposite why have so much opposing gravity. But if you did it lying down and it's safe then that's maybe that's the way. I'm sure more will chime in let's see what the concensous on this ?Thanks lew

zane77

My 2.3's I left standing upright when i was doing the mods to them. Whatever you are most comfortable with.

Moose68Bash

To do the mods on both my SRSs and 1Cs I removed the drivers and PRs while the speakers were upright, but lay them on their "backs" to carve out excess hot glue so that Black Hole 5 could be properly installed.

And, I reinstalled the drivers with the speakers upright.

leftwinger57

Moose68,What the heck is a Black Hole 5?This term I never heard from anybody here before ever.I really hope it has nothing to do w/ my 2bs.I see on your sig that you did "the whole kit and kaboodle" there on your SRS1.2s.Very nice taste in gear.

heiney9

I agree, gather all your materials and parts (do the x-over or send it to VR3) and do it at once.

H9

Moose68Bash

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Moose68,What the heck is a Black Hole 5?This term I never heard from anybody here before ever.I really hope it has nothing to do w/ my 2bs.I see on your sig that you did "the whole kit and kaboodle" there on your SRS1.2s.Very nice taste in gear.

It is a material that you apply in managed quantities to the backs and sides of the inside of your cabinets to damp cabinet resonance. There are other products (e.g., "NoRez") which others use for the same purpose. I believe Trey prefers NoRez.

Check out Black Hole 5 here:
www.soniccraft.com/products/damping/blackhole5.htm‎

NoRez here:
http://gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx

While you've got the cabinets open, you might as well apply this mod, as well.

leftwinger57

Ok I got that , lets say I can't maybe go that far but would have enough Dynamat to do the floos of the cabinets . Would this benifiacial or totally detremental to the cause.

leftwinger57

Heiny are you saying that my 3/4 effort sans x-overs is not really going to show the improvements I'm looking for. Since like have said priviously I don't think I would want tackle the x-overs ,what's involved w/ shipping them out and approximate cost for a job like this.Please keep in mind I've already heard from some people who said I would be fine and then when my boat comes in I could always do them later and that what physical mods and not electrical except for the new tweets would be enough.Now no rambling I'm seriously convinced of all of this and on the way but of this is not going to be an overnight sensation.

leftwinger57

Ok , again just went to your links and 1 did not let me ,page not found,the other yes it's in and to me it looks like thicker Dynamat and they do the their own comparison of the privious product that you used and No -Rez.I don't know if you've been following this ongoing deal of doing the mods or not, both because I think these suckers sound amazing now but by vast majority they say as good as they are they are ther're still from 89' and sh#t happens over time due to temp changes,use of new technology and just age in general.Now also /w the story is that I'm not let's say flushed w/ cash and judging by your sig you must have buckets o' cash . But again just kidding and I know nothing of your own situation but mine is rough to say the least.So would just w/ excess Dynamat to the floors be benificial or detrimental.

Moose68Bash

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Ok , again just went to your links and 1 did not let me ,page not found,the other yes it's in and to me it looks like thicker Dynamat and they do the their own comparison of the privious product that you used and No -Rez.I don't know if you've been following this ongoing deal of doing the mods or not, both because I think these suckers sound amazing now but by vast majority they say as good as they are they are ther're still from 89' and sh#t happens over time due to temp changes,use of new technology and just age in general.Now also /w the story is that I'm not let's say flushed w/ cash and judging by your sig you must have buckets o' cash . But again just kidding and I know nothing of your own situation but mine is rough to say the least.So would just w/ excess Dynamat to the floors be benificial or detrimental.

I'm sorry the link to BH 5 didn't work. Just go to Sonic Craft's web site and you can navigate to the Black Hole 5 page. The most dificult thing about the BH 5 installation is cutting it. It is not like Dynamat and serves a different purpose. Dynamat damps metallic resonance from driver and PR baskets and other metallic components. I would not put Dynamat on on the insides of cabinets -- on the inside of the trunk of my car to damp resonance from a subwoofer, but not on MDF that forms my speaker cabinets.

Black Hole 5 and NoRez are specifically designed to damp resonance from cabinet materials.

There are a lot of guys on this Forum who know far, far more about these matters than I do. They have very generously shared their expertise and experience with all varieties of SDA speakers. Spend some time searching the Forum threads, and you will learn a lot about all the questions you have.

There are various levels of expense you can incur in modifying your crossovers, and you can do the crossover boards in one step and then the SDA inductors later to spread the cost over time.

In my opinion, Trey at VR3 Mods is a completely reliable source of advice on the subject of crossovers (and many other audio topics). You can consult him about costs and options, if you are interested, and I'm certain he will help you chart a path that balances your desire to get the most out of your speakers and your pocketbook!

leftwinger57

Moose68Bash, man , thank you very much , I had no idea there were 2 different purposes for the 2 differing materials.I'm so new to this this except redoing foam surrounds and refinishing some cabinets for a more presentable look.

tonyb

LW,

Here's the jist, any older speaker including SDA's can benefit from Dynamat. Older cabinets tend to separate at the seams allowing air to escape which isn't a good thing for sound. So yes, you may notice some improvements, but the crossover is where the bulk of the improvements will come from. We understand that it may not be an affordable venture right now, so Dynamat to your hearts content and save those bottle caps for the crossovers.

leftwinger57

Thanks a lot TB....Gotcha, Moosebash up there says it's not the right stuff so already again differing opinions.

Moose68Bash

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Thanks a lot TB....Gotcha, Moosebash up there says it's not the right stuff so already again differing opinions.

tonyb is one of the veterans on this Forum who knows far more about this stuff than I probably ever will. However, his post is the only one I've ever seen that even remotely suggests applying Dynamat to MDF. I suspect he means "Dynamat to your hearts content" as long as you apply it to metallic surfaces inside the cabinets, not to the MDF.

However, let's let tonyb speak for himself in clarifying that issue.

Dynamat has a black tar-like or butyl rubber-like material on the side that adheres to whatever surface you apply it to and which supplies the damping effect. It would make a real mess of the insides of a speaker cabinet IMHO.

By the way, when you buy Dynamat, go for the Dynamat Xtreme version. You can buy sheets on eBay for significant savings over MSRP.

leftwinger57

Mosse68. If you see on the 1st pix of the thread it's Extreme this one I learned long ago both the package and the loose peice.loose was free and the pkge was $20 and just might have jumped the gun on that.But when I looked up the Dynamat
all I saw were fairly big pgkgs of sheets and or rolls at very high prices .My luck on E-Bay has been 1 for 6 w/ the speaker selector as the winner for $21 w/ shipping.Not good odds and I was on the hunt and kinda accomplished the mission.
.

Moose68Bash

Yes, I see that you have the Dynamat Xtreme. I'm sorry I didn't go back and look at the pictures again.

Keep posting your progress!

nooshinjohn

make sure you get the Armacell for the new gaskets and do those at the same time you do the dynamat

leftwinger57

nooshinjohn,I just looked up Amacell and it kinda looks like Black hole 5 or No-Rez. Now your mentioning gaskets I gather for airtight worthyness but I will be doing the Mortite. Is this for another application ? I did try a search for mods and really came up w/ a dude w/ again the Dyamat thing and then 1 dude did every inch of his passives including magnets and all around said this was over kill just do the outer spars.I kinda perused through the SDA-Handbook already.What I need is a definative list by the #s to do this .Then I will make it into a Chinese menu and pick and choose what I can and can not do either do to cost or find there is no need like some of the other extreme things people have done here to their speakers.Like new internal wireing(not happening),new binding posts (not happening) JB-weld (not happening)new I/C cable (not happening) Larry's Rings (not happening as is Johnnies Doughnuts Pete's Croissants (not happening) Hurricane Nuts( not happening) x-overs not until 2017ad maybe.

leftwinger57

Because there is some excitement outside w/ cops and kids I'm up and went back to the SDA Handbook which I was going to print but at 116pg and most of doesn't fill my needs forget that.I can always go back and refer to it.In a nutshell for my 87' SDA 2bs the order of priority to improve the sound w/ doing mods went like this.Absolutly change out Tweeters to RDO-198-1 2.Dynamat metal spars of baskets to reduce resonanace and or ringing within cabinets 3. Use mortite to seal and not some cheesey foam insulation around the rims of drivers and passives (byM Polk himself) and do new x-overs.Then it went into all the other stuff which I ixnayed already.

tonyb

Moose68Bash wrote: »

Dynamat has a black tar-like or butyl rubber-like material on the side that adheres to whatever surface you apply it to and which supplies the damping effect. It would make a real mess of the insides of a speaker cabinet IMHO.

.

Yes, of course but that's not how I ment it. In no way was I suggesting using sheets of Dynamat inside a speaker cabinet. LOL..On another note, I've seen guys take thin strips of it and just run it down the corners of a cabinet without any negative effects. There are many different ways of sealing cabinets and I can't speak to all of them as far as whats best, as I myself don't usually keep speakers for that long or buy vintage. I'll leave those suggestions to the more experienced rehabbers. I've even seen guys use wood putty....caulk....can't say how it worked, but interesting techniques.

If your cabinet of a vintage speaker has big bass drivers, you can almost bet the farm your going to lose some air due to leaks. After all, the bass portion of these bigger speaker cabinets is what pushes the most air, which then becomes more noticeable. Common sense really, but not something most look for when their bass notes get a little squirrely.

leftwinger57

Ok that's cleared up , but you know a zillion people are chiming in here and on the p/m side I gotta use this product or that product I MUST do that and this and it's not going to happen like that. I get the concept of airtight worthyness, I get the mortite as a sealant under the basket rims, I get the metalic ring that the Dyamat will **** or disapate entiterly, I get lining the cabinets w/ some form of acoustic material, I get changing the tweeters, sealing the cabinets w/ some form of goop like liquid nails seems problematic except through the passive opening but to reach all the way I doubt that but pulling a material would and does work for some that I have heard from. As I said before there are things I just won't do ever.like new I/C cable, Sunami Nuts,Rings and dougnuts replacing internal wireing and all the other stuff that some went to the absolute extreme .You know why because they could afford it and I can't it's that simple.

tonyb

leftwinger57 wrote: »

....because they could afford it and I can't it's that simple.

I know that LW, but some are just tossing out the possibilities of what can be accomplished with these speakers. I realize most is going to fly over your head, or you simply don't have the skills or coin to do what most are suggesting. No offense ment there either.

Look, it comes down to this. If you like what your hearing, don't do a damn thing. Some tweeks can be done on the cheap, and if you want to pursue those, then ask. If not, cool.....you can always invest whatever coin you can gather somewhere else in your system. Simple isn't it ?

In this hobby of audio, you can go as deep or shallow as anyone's wallet can accommodate. No shame in it either my friend, good sound can be had at any level.

leftwinger57

I got tell you are to cool.I forgot to ask before ,what the hell were you doing up so early in a different time zone than me. lol lol

nooshinjohn

Armacel is superior to mortite as a gasket material, especially if you are not using Larry's rings to secure the drivers to the front baffle. It is easier to work with, and makes the drivers easier to remove if you need to do so later on. Darquenight did an excellent review on the differences between the two, and found there were very small sonic improvements to using Armacell as well.

Here is the stuff you need...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell-2-in-x-30-ft-R-1-Foam-Insulation-Tape-TAP18230/100539553#.UgfKNr7n9oU

You only need one roll , and you will have a ton of it left over.

F1nut

Lew, do NOT use Mortite, period.

I find no reason to change the original driver gaskets unless they are damaged.

leftwinger57

Thankyou especially if H/D carries it must be neater than mortite..... ,I do have 2 questions then I'm watching NASCAR@Watkins Glen.1.A guy p/md me and said Lew when you do remove the drivers make absolutely sure you have a clean work surface because they have a sticky adhesive on them,I just turned around to look at my JBL -2060s and they have butyl surrounds black cones but no sticky.What's up w/ that?
2.When pulling the tweeters do you reseal them w/ anything at all?
3. I am out of questions for today.Rodger over and out for today.........lew

leftwinger57

Sh#t, Jesse I just missed your post by 2 minutes. Now your like the 600th opinion I've gotten so far If you hear that some dude in
in central N.J.has shot himself but has inordinate amout of audio gear that's me............Back to the race

zane77

Reseal the tweeters with the Armacell as well

F1nut

There is a slightly sticky coating on the mid-drivers, it's called doped paper, which is better than plain paper. Again, if the original gaskets are not damaged there is no reason to change them and that includes the tweeters.