SDA SRS to vintage

drumiv
drumiv Posts: 171
edited September 2013 in Vintage Speakers
I tried this in "basic hook-ups", lots a views, no comments. Is there any problem hooking up these speakers to my vintage receiver. I ask because I read something about a ground issue with the speakers.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,569
    edited August 2013
    What is your vintage receiver?

    The short answer is most, if not all, receivers are common ground, so that shouldn't be a problem. However, the problem you're going to have is that the speakers are 4 ohm nominal loads and most receivers are not rated to drive 4 ohm loads. Even if a receiver is rated to drive a 4 ohm load, a receiver is not going to drive those speakers properly.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dcoil
    dcoil Posts: 153
    edited August 2013
    Ditto what F1nut said! If you have SRS, you really need at least 200W/channel, capable of 4ohm load and high current capability and or course common ground. You can hook them up to a receiver, but you will not begin to scratch these speakers capability. Also, look at the upgrades for these speakers if you have not done so. Many are fairly inexpensive, easy to do with the great step-by-step instructions, and can improve your listening experience immensely!
    SDA SRS modded: X’ovrd, de-polyed, inductorized, interconnectorized, re-posted, dynamited, RDO’d, spiked, gasketed, ringed (Larry's), and grill cloth blinged! Done this on my own? Not a chance. Thanks to Raife and all who forged easy to follow upgrades. At least a 100% improvement in sound and my personal listening pleasure! :cheesygrin:Pass XP-10 preamp, Parasound A21 amp, Pioneer Elite DV-58AV (Ric Shultz modded), Audioquest Sky IC's, No longer need my Sunfire sub after mods...
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited August 2013
    Sounds like you just want to see it they work to just get started.
    Well if you have 4 ohm capability and at least 50 wpc you can use it till you get something better.
    Just don't crank it way up, you know.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited August 2013
    He has an SX-1980, you're golden -- that's tons of power.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,569
    edited August 2013
    I see it is rated at 270 wpc @ 8 ohms and although it indicates 4 ohm capability I ddin't find any wpc specs at 4 ohms. Therefore, crank with caution.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited August 2013
    oh well yea should be good, did you read his mind?
    Nightfall wrote: »
    He has an SX-1980, you're golden -- that's tons of power.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited August 2013
    PolkieMan wrote: »
    oh well yea should be good, did you read his mind?
    :lol: No, he has another of this exact thread in Hookup/Wiring I think.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited August 2013
    Thanks for the replies. Yes, I did post in another forum, but got nothing there. Cool, so my 1980 will power them. It's just been re-built, and my tech said it's putting out right at 350 wpc before clipping. This will have to do 'till I can get into separates. Thanks again.
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited August 2013
    oh I thought that you were like the late great Johnny Carson when he played that physic guy (Carnac the Magnificent) with the turban and everything he held up to his head he knew about it. :cheesygrin:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m_dT0wsrGI
    Nightfall wrote: »
    :lol: No, he has another of this exact thread in Hookup/Wiring I think.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited August 2013
    drumiv wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies. Yes, I did post in another forum, but got nothing there. Cool, so my 1980 will power them. It's just been re-built, and my tech said it's putting out right at 350 wpc before clipping. This will have to do 'till I can get into separates. Thanks again.
    I like how that will have to do. :cool: You'd have to be in a pretty large room for that NOT to be loud.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited August 2013
    It is in a large room, and still gets loud. Past 10:00 o'clock through my L112's, and my ears ring for days.
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  • dscheer
    dscheer Posts: 47
    edited August 2013
    F1nut is right on......The problem with most receivers that drive a 4 ohm load, the receiver will be at the point of a soft clip or (with the volume up, at clipping into 4 ohm loads). This is what fries the voice coils of both the high freq drivers or the mid-bass drivers. I have a set of RTA12c I purchased new in 1984 and drove these with a receiver, I frequently fried voice coils, I was younger and stupid with the ole volume controll, Polk replaced all the drivers I destroyed. But I now drive these speakers with a Parasound HCA 3500 dual mono amp. 500 watts into 4 ohms with ultra High Current capibilities, I have had this set up for 12 years now with no problems and the RTA12c's love this amp. Do yourself a BIG Favor, when you can afford it, purchase a High Current amp that is designed to drive 4 ohm loads at loud listening levels (If that's what you like) We all crank up the volume on our rigs at times, it only takes a second to fri a voice coil.
    Regards: Don scheer
    Donto's System:
    Parasound HCA3500
    Parasound HCA 1500a (4 each)
    DIY Set Tube Amps (4 each)
    Parasound 850 Pre-Amp
    Onkyo CD Player
    Teac Tape Play/Recorder
    Samsung 50" TV
    Toshiba HD DVD Play/Recorder
    Polk RTA12C Speakers
    DIY 15" Side-Firing Subwoofers (2 ea)
    DIY 15" Down-Firing Subwoofer
    Adcom Power Conditioner
    DIY Isolation Transformers/Power Conditioner
    4 ea 20 Amp Power Circuits
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited August 2013
    I do plan on being very careful with the volume. Usually, 9 0'clock is the norm. As soon as I sell some gear off, I'll start the process of collecting separates (I'm sure the wife will be thrilled).
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited August 2013
    Don't get rid of that 1980. It deserves to be in the hands of someone that will care for it, which it sounds like you are. They're only going to get harder and harder to come by.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited August 2013
    Oh, the 1980's not going anywhere. I'm going to loose the 1250,1050, the OLA's, L50's, maybe the L100's, maybe the KLH Fives.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited August 2013
    dscheer wrote: »
    F1nut is right on......The problem with most receivers that drive a 4 ohm load, the receiver will be at the point of a soft clip or (with the volume up, at clipping into 4 ohm loads). This is what fries the voice coils of both the high freq drivers or the mid-bass drivers. I have a set of RTA12c I purchased new in 1984 and drove these with a receiver, I frequently fried voice coils, I was younger and stupid with the ole volume controll, Polk replaced all the drivers I destroyed. But I now drive these speakers with a Parasound HCA 3500 dual mono amp. 500 watts into 4 ohms with ultra High Current capibilities, I have had this set up for 12 years now with no problems and the RTA12c's love this amp. Do yourself a BIG Favor, when you can afford it, purchase a High Current amp that is designed to drive 4 ohm loads at loud listening levels (If that's what you like) We all crank up the volume on our rigs at times, it only takes a second to fri a voice coil.
    Regards: Don scheer

    Have you done any mods to your 12C's? I have a pair that I also bought new in '84, and mods (Xovers, BH 5, etc) really take them to another level. They do love power.

    Sorry for the derail - carry on. :smile:
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • dscheer
    dscheer Posts: 47
    edited September 2013
    I have done some minor mods to my RTA12cs, But!...I need to do a through rebuild on the crossovers and a few other things.
    My problem is, I rather listen to music than take time to tear apart & rebuild. I know I should do this, But, I never get to it.
    I need to get all the necessary parts and just do it ..Period.

    I love my RTA12Cs.
    Regards: Don Scheer
    Donto's System:
    Parasound HCA3500
    Parasound HCA 1500a (4 each)
    DIY Set Tube Amps (4 each)
    Parasound 850 Pre-Amp
    Onkyo CD Player
    Teac Tape Play/Recorder
    Samsung 50" TV
    Toshiba HD DVD Play/Recorder
    Polk RTA12C Speakers
    DIY 15" Side-Firing Subwoofers (2 ea)
    DIY 15" Down-Firing Subwoofer
    Adcom Power Conditioner
    DIY Isolation Transformers/Power Conditioner
    4 ea 20 Amp Power Circuits
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited September 2013
    Nightfall wrote: »
    Don't get rid of that 1980. It deserves to be in the hands of someone that will care for it, which it sounds like you are. They're only going to get harder and harder to come by.

    For what people are paying for those things, you can rest assured that whoever buys it for $3,500 or $4,000 will take care of it. Unless there is a sentimental attachment, you can sell that thing, have the money to buy some more than adequate separates and really hear what those speakers can sound like.
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited September 2013
    George, I've got more than $4k into the 1980, so it will take a little more than that to pry it away. The separates are almost done; The Holman preamp is finished, the Soundcraftsmen is almost there, and the Carver is waiting on the big caps. I can't wait to hear the big guys on this stuff, but I must say, the 1980 is no slouch.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited September 2013
    350 watts is enough to get them nearly to their maximum db output isn't it? Something about each 3db increase takes a certain multiplication of watts to achieve.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,259
    edited September 2013
    Yes, but separates is where it's at, once you step into that, everything changes..
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited September 2013
    Nightfall, 350 wpc is definitely enough to make them happy, but is putting a serious load on the mighty 1980; they are the only speakers I have that put it into protection. I did have the volume at 1:30, listening to Nora Jones. That might have had a little to do with it.
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,701
    edited September 2013
    I had the same problem. Was running SDS SRS's with a pioneer sx-1250. Did a good job up until the 11 or 12 o'clock position. Then would start to go into protection mode. Moved the sx-1250 to tuner duty and purchased a Parasound amp and Preamp. The Halo A21 and P3. Now running 250/400 wpc 8/4 ohm. What a difference this made.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • MAD
    MAD Posts: 105
    edited September 2013
    I have an unrestored sx1980 which I think sounds good... I can't imagine what it would sound like fully restored. Thats amazing... It definitely shines like jewel under the light.
    I can usually control my volume knob until friends come over and want to hear my speakers. The SDA's blew them away... some started laughing hysterically since some of them only own those crappy ipod docks and this definitely scares me cranking an unrestored amp, I would be furious with myself if I damaged it.

    Currently running a kenwood 700m and I'm happy with the synergy between that and the sda 2.3s. It's only rated at something like 170wpc. Loud enough for me and sounds great at low volumes as well. Tried my qsc mx 1500a - rated at 350wpc rms and I found I prefered the sound of the kenwood by a huge margin even though it was lower powered. Someone once told me the design of the kenwood amp employs minimal negative feedback, true or not?, but maybe thats why I'm hooked on the sound. Very natural sounding.

    What I learned from that is, although more powerful amps will go louder they may not necessarily sound better, imho watts are not created equally. Maybe it is a unfair comparison between a home stereo vs. pa but just some food for thought. I wish there was a 500wpc kenwood supreme to compare it to.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,569
    edited September 2013
    What I learned from that is, although more powerful amps will go louder they may not necessarily sound better, imho watts are not created equally.

    You have learned well.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited September 2013
    MAD wrote: »
    Currently running a kenwood 700m and I'm happy with the synergy between that and the sda 2.3s. It's only rated at something like 170wpc. Loud enough for me and sounds great at low volumes as well. Tried my qsc mx 1500a - rated at 350wpc rms and I found I prefered the sound of the kenwood by a huge margin even though it was lower powered. Someone once told me the design of the kenwood amp employs minimal negative feedback, true or not?, but maybe thats why I'm hooked on the sound. Very natural sounding.
    I'm not disputing what F1 just agreed to. At all. I'm just throwing out that you are not only comparing "watts" here, you're also switching preamps.

    Just looked at a picture of the 700M. That thing is simple, to the point, and gorgeous.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,569
    edited September 2013
    Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he mentioned what pre amp he was using.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited September 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he mentioned what pre amp he was using.
    My reading comprehension sucks. He was only comparing the two amps, the SX1980 was not a result of his final thoughts. Sorry!

    Everything I've read about that Kenwood is highly looked upon by. Are three of them really worth anything near 15k?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Kenwood-700-M-Power-Amplifiers-SPECTACULAR-ONE-OF-A-KIND-/161094544486?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2581fbac66
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • drumiv
    drumiv Posts: 171
    edited September 2013
    I just got my first taste of the separates thing; Apt Holman pre & Soundcraftsmen MA 5002. First impression, I'm not happy. The 1980 blows them away SQ wise. It seems as though everything I loved about the SDA's is gone. I'm still waiting on the Carver M-4.0t to get finished. The plan was to use the Carver up top, and the MA 5002 for the bottom. I'm holding out hope for the Carver, but am going to look at something else to replace the 5002.
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  • MAD
    MAD Posts: 105
    edited September 2013
    When I did the comparision, I bypassed the pre amp and went directly from my cd player into the amps as each has level controls.
    I used a sound meter to get roughly the same level for the comparison. I see what you are saying, pre amps can definitely influence the sound and I have found the kenwood is more dynamic without it... one day I hope to stumble upon the 700c which was designed for film caps, kenwood just didn't put them in because of the cost difference.
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