Newb's first Post - Monitor 10s

workmeistr

Hi,
Newb here with new original Monitor 10s (maybe A's?).

I have to replace one woofer so thought I would do, at least: the Dynamat on all, glue magnets, and check/re-seal the cabinet perimeter while checking the center brace rigidity. Excellent write-up by westmassguy on Thread: Monitor 10 Rebuild with "TL" Mod. I thanks you very much, Sir.

I'll be buying the woofer off of the Bay after pulling the frozen one to check for style/magnet sticker so I can hopefully get a period-correct replacement. My 10s are original or As, I believe, with early tweeter and no evidence of a sticker on the back upper right of cabinet, though my PRs do seem coated and have the bigger 'dustcaps'?

Could someone please advise me on the safe way to remove the woofers and PR after removing the screws? Do you use a razor blade to separate some of the tape before prying up? Thin putty knife? What tape do you use to reseal, something like foam insulation tape? What's currently under the speakers looks grey, occasionally poking out from around the black rims.

Thanks for the help. Again, great write-up and pictures, westmassguy. It would be cool if someone with skills would be interested in doing the "TL" Mod on a core cross over exchange basis. In the meantime I'll ensure everything is tight and sealed as originally intended.

Mystery

Congrats!

I use thin kitchen butter knife for stuck drivers.

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

Hi,
Newb here with new original Monitor 10s (maybe A's?).

I have to replace one woofer so thought I would do, at least: the Dynamat on all, glue magnets, and check/re-seal the cabinet perimeter while checking the center brace rigidity. Excellent write-up by westmassguy on Thread: Monitor 10 Rebuild with "TL" Mod. I thanks you very much, Sir.

I'll be buying the woofer off of the Bay after pulling the frozen one to check for style/magnet sticker so I can hopefully get a period-correct replacement. My 10s are original or As, I believe, with early tweeter and no evidence of a sticker on the back upper right of cabinet, though my PRs do seem coated and have the bigger 'dustcaps'?

Could someone please advise me on the safe way to remove the woofers and PR after removing the screws? Do you use a razor blade to separate some of the tape before prying up? Thin putty knife? What tape do you use to reseal, something like foam insulation tape? What's currently under the speakers looks grey, occasionally poking out from around the black rims.

Thanks for the help. Again, great write-up and pictures, westmassguy. It would be cool if someone with skills would be interested in doing the "TL" Mod on a core cross over exchange basis. In the meantime I'll ensure everything is tight and sealed as originally intended.

Thanks for your kind words and welcome to Club Polk.
Sounds like you have an early pair with Mortite Rope Caulk, which can be a PITA to dislodge.
One trick you can try, is remove the screws from the crossover, and pull it out. There should be enough play on wires to move it out of the way, and then insert your hand/arm through the hole, and try gently pressing the PR from behind. Be sure to only press on the back of the basket frame. Once you get the PR out, you can pop the other drivers.

westmassguy

Mystery wrote: »

Congrats!

I use thin kitchen butter knife for stuck drivers.

That will work, but you risk damaging the textured vinyl on the front baffle.

Mr. Bubbles

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your speakers. Polks can get addictive. I have used a small pick with a right angle tip hooked into the screw hole itself after removing the screws. this has worked well for me.

westmassguy

Mr. Bubbles wrote: »

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your speakers. Polks can get addictive. I have used a small pick with a right angle tip hooked into the screw hole itself after removing the screws. this has worked well for me.

I have an upholstery tool that does the same thing. Very handy

workmeistr

My Monitor 10A’s frozen MW6500 driver is date stamped 111280, speaker Ser. # 90086 (on 1 speaker, forgot to picture # on other)

The 10As are rosewood vinyl color and both are absolutely perfect condition (missing 1 Polk badge on grille, though no damage), however the shipping boxes were evidently stored in a non-climate controlled environment (I like how the boxes tout “New Grille Fastener” and “Black Basket”, stamped with what was surely a large ink stamper). I paid $150 and will be in them at $200 after new driver and badge. I’m very happy, and already planning the easy upgrades (RAAMmat, hurricane nuts, JB weld the seams between magnets and plates of the drivers, and cross-brace and seam integrity measures), I will commission a local woodworker to make the stands from the provided schematics, and I am thinking about buying an extra pair of period-correct crossovers in which to commission someone to replace the caps and resistors to Sonicaps and Mills resistors.

Regarding my frozen driver, I read that vintage Polk drivers can be very susceptible to damage from shock. A speaker that has been dropped, even from a short distance or bumped severely, could damage the woofers. I’m going to JB weld around the seams between the magnets and plates of all drivers. Now I’m on the search for a replacement driver; there was one on the Bay, though it specifically said “as is”, and with the above information and the nature of shipping abuses, I’m reluctant to risk $35 only to start a frozen driver collection.

So my initial questions are:
Do you JB weld around both above and below the magnet rings?
Is everyone using Armacell tape/rolls? I only find it in the 1/8" thick, 2" width roll; should I use it and cut the width down? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell-2-in-x-30-ft-R-1-Foam-Insulation-Tape-TAP18230/100539553

Take care, Bren.

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

My Monitor 10A’s frozen MW6500 driver is date stamped 111280, speaker Ser. # 90086 (on 1 speaker, forgot to picture # on other)

The 10As are rosewood vinyl color and both are absolutely perfect condition (missing 1 Polk badge on grille, though no damage), however the shipping boxes were evidently stored in a non-climate controlled environment (I like how the boxes tout “New Grille Fastener” and “Black Basket”, stamped with what was surely a large ink stamper). I paid $150 and will be in them at $200 after new driver and badge. I’m very happy, and already planning the easy upgrades (RAAMmat, hurricane nuts, JB weld the seams between magnets and plates of the drivers, and cross-brace and seam integrity measures), I will commission a local woodworker to make the stands from the provided schematics, and I am thinking about buying an extra pair of period-correct crossovers in which to commission someone to replace the caps and resistors to Sonicaps and Mills resistors.

Regarding my frozen driver, I read that vintage Polk drivers can be very susceptible to damage from shock. A speaker that has been dropped, even from a short distance or bumped severely, could damage the woofers. I’m going to JB weld around the seams between the magnets and plates of all drivers. Now I’m on the search for a replacement driver; there was one on the Bay, though it specifically said “as is”, and with the above information and the nature of shipping abuses, I’m reluctant to risk $35 only to start a frozen driver collection.

So my initial questions are:
Do you JB weld around both above and below the magnet rings?
Is everyone using Armacell tape/rolls? I only find it in the 1/8" thick, 2" width roles; should I use it and cut the width down? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell-2-in-x-30-ft-R-1-Foam-Insulation-Tape-TAP18230/100539553

Take care, Bren.

Bren, your 10s have Peerless Tweeters. There is no upgrade path, unless, as you stated, you were going to purchase another pair of 10 crossovers. A 10B crossover will allow you to switch to the RDO-194-1, or with modifications, the RDO 198-1. The MW6500 are pretty common on eBay, and a new replacement may be available from Polk customer Service. Call them, and make sure you state you're a member of Club Polk.
Never heard of RAAMmat, most here use Dynamat Extreme. The "Wedge Pack" can be found on eBay for $25.00 shipping included and is the cheapest place to get it.
In lieu of JB Weld, any 10 minute epoxy will do, however I've found Loctite Power Grab, clear Acrylic just as effective, and much easier to work with. Clean-up with soap and water. You can also use it to internally seal the cabinets, as it does not contain silicone, which is corrosive to the internal metal parts of the speaker. You should apply a bead on the top and bottom of the ceramic magnet where it meets the front and back plate. Smooth it out with your finger, which pushes it into the small gap, and wipe off the excess with a damp cloth.
Armacell tape is the preferred gasket material around here. It should be cut into 3/8" or 1/2" strips depending on whether you're doing the drivers or the PR.
Either myself or Trey/VR3mods, would be happy to help you with the recap.

workmeistr

I’m definitely going the Loctite route for the reasons you stated. Although JB Weld has saved many a day for me in the past (usually involving British automobiles), it is a pain to mix and then apply neatly; I also had not thought about the silicone content of some adhesives.

You had lost me with “front and back plate” of the speakers, until I looked up proper speaker component names. So, a bead all the way around the magnet both top and bottom?, too easy.

I have RAAMmat left over from doing my Isuzu Vehicross interior; basically the same as comparable version of Dynamat (RAAMmat 60 vs. Dynamat Extreme), but cheaper if you’re doing larger volume like a car interior.

I guess I shouldn’t have used the term “upgrade” regarding my 10A crossovers, I’m still learning. It is advised to have the crossovers re-capped, as they’re at the end of their lifecycle? I suppose if silicone fumes aren’t good for internal metal parts, a slowly belching cap isn’t either. So this would be considered maintenance, with no appreciable difference in sound? How much does a re-capping basic maintenance run, generally?

I had thought to buy a period-correct replacement driver to most closely match tone and any degenerative loss shared with the other three drivers, but I’m likely over thinking it.

Thanks again, Bren.

boston1450

I would also be very cautious about buying a driver on the bay. I would make sure it is good. If it said as is. No way. Too many bad stories. Ask questions on condition & shipping packaging methods---also. Nice speakers & welcome

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

I’m definitely going the Loctite route for the reasons you stated. Although JB Weld has saved many a day for me in the past (usually involving British automobiles), it is a pain to mix and then apply neatly; I also had not thought about the silicone content of some adhesives.

You had lost me with “front and back plate” of the speakers, until I looked up proper speaker component names. So, a bead all the way around the magnet both top and bottom?, too easy.

I have RAAMmat left over from doing my Isuzu Vehicross interior; basically the same as comparable version of Dynamat (RAAMmat 60 vs. Dynamat Extreme), but cheaper if you’re doing larger volume like a car interior.

I guess I shouldn’t have used the term “upgrade” regarding my 10A crossovers, I’m still learning. It is advised to have the crossovers re-capped, as they’re at the end of their lifecycle? I suppose if silicone fumes aren’t good for internal metal parts, a slowly belching cap isn’t either. So this would be considered maintenance, with no appreciable difference in sound? How much does a re-capping basic maintenance run, generally?

I had thought to buy a period-correct replacement driver to most closely match tone and any degenerative loss shared with the other three drivers, but I’m likely over thinking it.

Thanks again, Bren.

Bren, you're not overthinking at all. Your early 6500s are probably smooth and shiny when cleaned. Later cones have a very slight texture to them beneath the polymer coating. The new replacements are very different in appearance than the early drivers.
Recapping the crossover is considered an upgrade, when new and much better quality parts are used. I was referring to the tweeter upgrade you mentioned. There is no direct upgrade for the Peerless, and if they're both working there's really no need. They're a fine sounding tweeter in their own right. Replacement clones can be bought from Midwest Speaker. I've heard very good things about their sound

westmassguy

boston1450 wrote: »

I would also be very cautious about buying a driver on the bay. I would make sure it is good. If it said as is. No way. Too many bad stories. Ask questions on condition & shipping packaging methods---also. Nice speakers & welcome

+1, but I've had very good luck. I always speak directly to the seller, and give detailed instructions for packing etc.
eBay's always a crap-shoot, so best to speak to the seller, and get insurance too if offered.

Adam Czepiel

Are you near Connecticut ?

westmassguy

Adam Czepiel wrote: »

Are you near Connecticut ?

Me? or the OP?

workmeistr

So there is a Bay'er who will warranty the MW6500 speaker to arrive unfrozen and working. Unfortunately he did not respond until after his first auction ended, so now I have to wait 5 more days until the end of the current. $20 for the speaker and $15 shipping (unless someone starts bidding this go 'round), only the $20 refunded if speaker bad. I do like that the driver is dated early 1981, keeps it close to my "112080" speakers.

Sound like an alright deal? Thanks.

workmeistr

Working... 2-part epoxy on the magnets, started with applying RAAMmat on my one good driver and PM from the first cabinet.

I had to order hurricane nuts from Amazon and #8-32 x 1" black oxide coated stainless steel machine screws from Fastenall. I went to Menards, Home Depot, Lowes, and an Ace Hardware; no love on nuts or screws.

I did get the Armacell 2 in. x 30 ft. x 1/8” thick R-1 Foam Insulation Tape and the Loctite 6-Ounce Power Grab All-Purpose Clear Construction Adhesive Pressure Pack from the Depot. The 6-Ounce Power Grab Pressure Pack is great, though it comes out fast and and thick (probably take a week for it to fully set) and only suffices for one cabinet.

I'm a bit nervous about soldering the wires back to the speaker terminals; does anyone know of any got Youtube videos or otherwise explaining basis soldering? I don't know about flux, or how to prevent overheating and possibly affecting the leads to the cones.

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

Working... 2-part epoxy on the magnets, started with applying RAAMmat on my one good driver and PM from the first cabinet.

I had to order hurricane nuts from Amazon and #8-32 x 1" black oxide coated stainless steel machine screws from Fastenall. I went to Menards, Home Depot, Lowes, and an Ace Hardware; no love on nuts or screws.

I did get the Armacell 2 in. x 30 ft. x 1/8” thick R-1 Foam Insulation Tape and the Loctite 6-Ounce Power Grab All-Purpose Clear Construction Adhesive Pressure Pack from the Depot. The 6-Ounce Power Grab Pressure Pack is great, though it comes out fast and and thick (probably take a week for it to fully set) and only suffices for one cabinet.

I'm a bit nervous about soldering the wires back to the speaker terminals; does anyone know of any got Youtube videos or otherwise explaining basis soldering? I don't know about flux, or how to prevent overheating and possibly affecting the leads to the cones.

Bren, the Hurricane nuts could have been ordered directly from Parts Express, and they have an assortment of machine screws as well.
The Loctite dries via evaporation. did you smooth it out with your finger tip? You can put the cabs in the sun or take a house fan and aim it at the front of the cabs to speed up drying time.
I thought you were going to use the Loctite on the magnets too?
Have you cleaned the woofers and PRs yet? If not, Real Windex, and a soft, microfiber cloth is what I use. Wet the cloth with the Windex, and with a circular motion, starting from the center dust cap, work your way around the cone. The Windex cleans and lubricates as you wipe, and prevents the cloth from sticking to the tacky coating on the cones. I usually do the rubber surrounds first with the Windex, to remove all the brown rubber oxidation, then switch to a clean area of the cloth to do the cones.
The early Monitors were soldered, however, you can switch to 3/16" female spade connectors to slip on to the male spades on the woofers. I heat the spade with the soldering iron, and using a small brass parts cleaning brush, brush off the excess solder
If you do intend to solder, the Rat Shack has 25-30 watt irons, and also lead free solder in small tubes, that contains flux. Do not use acid or rosin core solder.

workmeistr

I didn’t see 1" 8-32 black oxide coated stainless steel machine screws on Parts Express; I ordered the hurricane nuts through Amazon from Parts Express. I’m new to Parts Express but I like what I see.

For the magnets I used Loctite Quick Set 5 minute Epoxy with the Instant Mix Syringe which makes clean application a breeze.

For the cabinets, I smoothed out the Loctite, but the convenient Loctite 6-Ounce Power Grab All-Purpose Clear Construction Adhesive Pressure Pack came out fast and quick.

Thanks for the tip on cleaning the woofers with Windex. I thought their stickiness was a bad thing; I’m glad to hear that it’s common for them to be sticky.

I contemplated spade connectors but thought that was a cop out, as they were originally soldered. Were later variants equipped with spade connectors? No degradation in sound?

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

I didn’t see 1" 8-32 black oxide coated stainless steel machine screws on Parts Express; I ordered the hurricane nuts through Amazon from Parts Express. I’m new to Parts Express but I like what I see.

For the magnets I used Loctite Quick Set 5 minute Epoxy with the Instant Mix Syringe which makes clean application a breeze.

For the cabinets, I smoothed out the Loctite, but the convenient Loctite 6-Ounce Power Grab All-Purpose Clear Construction Adhesive Pressure Pack came out fast and quick.

Thanks for the tip on cleaning the woofers with Windex. I thought their stickiness was a bad thing; I’m glad to hear that it’s common for them to be sticky.

I contemplated spade connectors but thought that was a cop out, as they were originally soldered. Were later variants equipped with spade connectors? No degradation in sound?

All the old MW65XX Series had a sticky polymer coating applied to them. The new replacement drivers Polk has are coated too, but not sticky to the touch.
It's not a cop out to switch to spade connectors. If you really want to dress them up nice, get the gold plated brass spades. Clean all the old solder off, and apply a little DeoxIT for good measure.

workmeistr

Progress is being made on the three good drivers and the PR.

One of the driver’s magnet is seriously out of alignment with the back plate and top plate. This speaker seemed to work fine in the previous test. It seems odd to me that my frozen driver visually appears aligned, but this one works looking the way it does. Is there anything to worry about with this driver? (pic 1&2)

And for a real novice question: on the Peerless tweeter, does the black wire go to the lead with the red insulator, or the lead with the black insulator? I forgot to make a note before aggressively clipping wires. (pic 3)

When deadening car interiors with the RAAMmat, I always taped the seams with a heavy metallic ‘muffler tape’ to prevent the tar substance from getting on any re-installed panels; I did the same thing on my drivers and PR. (pic 4)

Thanks again for the support. I need to get the 4th driver and do all steps to it, seal cabinet #2, finish sealing cabinet #1 (The seams of the panel with speaker holes: I need to get a mirror to neatly apply the bead of Loctite), and install the hurricane nuts when they arrive.

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

Progress is being made on the three good drivers and the PR.

One of the driver’s magnet is seriously out of alignment with the back plate and top plate. This speaker seemed to work fine in the previous test. It seems odd to me that my frozen driver visually appears aligned, but this one works looking the way it does. Is there anything to worry about with this driver? (pic 1&2)

And for a real novice question: on the Peerless tweeter, does the black wire go to the lead with the red insulator, or the lead with the black insulator? I forgot to make a note before aggressively clipping wires. (pic 3)

When deadening car interiors with the RAAMmat, I always taped the seams with a heavy metallic ‘muffler tape’ to prevent the tar substance from getting on any re-installed panels; I did the same thing on my drivers and PR. (pic 4)

Thanks again for the support. I need to get the 4th driver and do all steps to it, seal cabinet #2, finish sealing cabinet #1 (The seams of the panel with speaker holes: I need to get a mirror to neatly apply the bead of Loctite), and install the hurricane nuts when they arrive.

The magnets and plates are aligned at the factory. It's not uncommon for them to look odd after alignment. As long as the cone moves in and out smoothly without any rubbing or odd noises, you should be fine.
The red insulator on the Peerless is the positive terminal. All the old Polks were wired: Black +/Positive, White -/Negative or Ground.
No need to add any additional sealing tape on the RAAMmat.

workmeistr

Can I put 6502's in my Monitor 10As? I now have a collection of two frozen 6500's. How tough is it to crack these open and try to recenter them? Is there a thread about rebuilding the MWs? Anyone got a 6500 laying around and can appreciate how to package; I can appreciate compensation for packaging? I'm eager to get my 10As put back together. Take care, Bren.

westmassguy

workmeistr wrote: »

Can I put 6502's in my Monitor 10As? I now have a collection of two frozen 6500's. How tough is it to crack these open and try to recenter them? Is there a thread about rebuilding the MWs? Anyone got a 6500 laying around and can appreciate how to package; I can appreciate compensation for packaging? I'm eager to get my 10As put back together. Take care, Bren.

MW6502s are 4 ohm, and not compatible in any way shape or form. The T/S Parameters are very different. Keep an eye on eBay for 6500s.
Use the search function, as there are several threads about building a jig to re-center everything. If the Forum search doesn't work, use Google.

workmeistr

Thanks again. I ordered a single 6503 from Polk w/ 20% Club Polk discount and free shipping. If after many hours to settle in, I convince myself that there is a noticeable difference, I may think about replacing the mirror image thrower in the other cabinet.

Thanks westmassguy for the 6500/6503 specs in http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?148575-Just-curious-MW6500-vs-MW6503

I finished the hurricane nuts last weekend and am now looking forward to putting everything back together.

workmeistr

Slight delay; 1 dead Peerless in my 10As. 'Probably from me overheating the lead when soldering the wire. I'll be more careful with the period replacement I just won on eBay. I may seek out another pair of 10As or 7s for the rear speakers. I am building a quad system around my Pioneer QX-949 which is getting cleaned and re-capped now.

The Pioneer QX-949 receiver is a 4-channel receiver which can operate with both 2-channel and 4-channel program source.

It has a 2 CH power boosting switch that increases power when using the QX-949 for 2-channel reproduction. I plan to keep the boosting switch (inconveniently located on the back of the unit) in 4CH Quadraphonic mode:

Continuous Power Output (4CH Quadraphonic)
20Hz~20kHz (4 channels driven) 40W x 4 (8Ω), 50W x 4 (4Ω)
1kHz (4 channels driven) 44W x 4 (8Ω), 58W x 4 (4Ω)
1kHz (Each channel driven) 53W/CH (8Ω), 75W/CH (4Ω)

Continuous Power Output (2CH Power Boosting Switch set at “2 CH”)
20Hz~20kHz (2 channels driven) 60W+60W (8Ω), 75W+75W (4Ω)
1kHz (2 channels driven) 65W+65W (8Ω), 85W+85W (4Ω)
1kHz (Each channel driven) 75W/CH (8Ω), 100W/CH (4Ω)

So this is a long way around to ask you good folks how many more watts per channel should I plan to amplify? Will 4- Monitor 10As in four corners be happy with 70W/CH (8Ω)?

I ask because I am drawn to, for period-correctness and silver-ness:
-Pioneer QC 800A Quadraphonic pre-amp
-Pioneer QM 800A Quadraphonic power amp
5-60kHz (4 channels driven) 30W x 4 (8Ω), 50W x 4 (4Ω)
.5 THD.FREQ.RESPONSE FROM 8 -60KHZ+/-.5DB
-Pair of Pioneer Equalizers (2 ea. for 4-channels), either: SG-9500 or SG-9800
-Polk Audio PSW 10 Sub (or 2 separate ones; not sure how to hook these up on a vintage receiver, or if they are even advisable)

Any advice will be appreciated. Specifically: is 70W/CH (8Ω) sufficient for Monitor 10As?