Amp/Reciever to Power Monitor 70s?

tonyb

I'd say it's beyond "beyond astounding". Who cares about 1.5 db's anyway ? Since when did any part of this discussion equate quality of sound to loudness ?

Painfully obvious our new friend has zero experience with anything of quality or a variety of gear. You simply can't hide that fact given his posts. Certainly entitled to his opinions though, meaningless as they are.

nguyendot

Yahzi wrote: »

Claims based on zero evidence. FYI, no amplifier is "high current". Current isn't "high" by default.

Some amplifiers are capable of delivering high-er current assuming the demand is there. If the OP's listening levels don't require high wattage then it's immaterial how much "high current" he needs because his amplifier will never deliver it under those circumstances.

If the OP is up to date with modern technology and is using a subwoofer then it's reasonable to assume he is also using bass management - both will significantly curtail power demands and therefore the need for a so-called "high current" amplifier is moot.

How do you know I have no evidence? You assume I have never used the monitor 70 with and avr1700? How would you know? Wait you don't know so ironically you are the one claiming something based on zero evidence. Please, keep your foot squarely planted in your mouth. On this forum we generally have accepted any amplifier that doubles down in power went going from 8 to 4 ohms as "high current". The avr1700 does not double down.

I have used the configuration he has talked about and it was underwhelming. Also he made no mention of a subwoofer but purely two speaker operation. You cannot assume he is up to date with technology. No sub = no bass management. Stfu kthx.

GFOviedo

I bought a Pioneer SC-1522-K from CostCo for $600 dollars, which has 130 wpc. I own a pair of Monitor 70's, Monitor 25c, pair of Jamos S426, and a Pair of Energy EF-500, with dual Klipsch RW-12D's.

My receiver pushes my 7.2 nicely, but I am sure if I was to add an Emotiva amp for the front 3, it would sound even better. I'm actually thinking of selling my set up, and upgrading to the RTi line.

Yahzi

tonyb wrote:

I'd say it's beyond "beyond astounding". Who cares about 1.5 db's anyway ? Since when did any part of this discussion equate quality of sound to loudness

Well, more power equals more loudness. It's common sense stuff, but clearly being well informed is anathema to your beliefs.

Since SPL is logarithmic 1.5 dB is what you can expect moving from 200-300 watts. The only thing that changes is SPL and guess what, it's hardly noticeable.

There is no reason to assume that you NEED 200-300 watts - it's just an assumption based on a meme that has spread around here ie "more power equals better quality" or some such nonsense. It's simply not reality - not all people need that kind of power because

1) Not all people listen at outrageous SPL levels
2) Not all people listen in auditoriums but actual listening rooms
3) Not all people are seated very, very far away from their systems

What you don't understand is that the additional potential current you gain with a bigger amplifier won't be utilised at the drop of a hat - if your listening levels don't require it, or the source does not require it, or your seated distance does not dictate the need for it, then increasing current exponentially will bring about ZERO gains. Think about it - don't act like a sheep, but actually think about this for a second until you can grasp the nature of the situation.

If you don't need, it won't make a difference and I'm betting most here wouldn't know how much power they needed if their lives depended on it.

F1nut" wrote:

It appears your level of ignorance related to all things audio is beyond astounding, congrats!

It appears I am the only one who actually has his thinking cap on. Guys coming out with these "you need 300 watts for your speakers to sound good" claims are just that - claims, which have no basis for being made.

No thought was put in to the claim, no logic is there; it's just useless ie unhelpful and giving people the wrong impression. "Hey, let's all go out and buy a big power amp because other forum members say so!?! That isn't particularly helpful - not only that, it's misleading.

Since everyone's power requirements are different as a matter of course, even if one used the same identical pair of speakers, it just renders the whole claim moot.

Yahzi

nguyendot wrote:

On this forum we generally have accepted any amplifier that doubles down in power went going from 8 to 4 ohms as "high current". The avr1700 does not double down.

Yes, I understand the general usage of the term, but very few amplifiers actually double down perfectly from 8 ohms into 4 ohms and "high current" is not "high current" at all times - if your source/listening level/speaker impedance/phase angle does not call for "high current" then it's a moot question. Moreover, I'm not convinced you understand why you think you would need a high current amplifier. It's just the current trend that you need "x" without fully grasping why you need it.

tonyb

I assure you chief, I'm well aware of how it all works when it comes to power.

Your taking some comments too seriously. While some of what you say may be true, it's more so common knowledge that doesn't bear repeating in every thread. We've covered power/watts/current....more times than fly's chasing Lady Gaga with her meat outfit on.

That said, everyone's listening habits are different and so are the needs for power. Any speaker can benefit from more current and that applies to more than loudness. Will a lot of extra power go unused ? Yeah, possibly so....but that's an individual decision. Power is used for more than the amount of DB's you can push out your speakers. But then, most here know this and every comment about amps doesn't require a tutorial.

ZLTFUL

Give up Tony. You are talking to the internet equivilant of a tree stump.
This guy has a notorious reputation for arguing simply for the sake of argument while trying to come off as somehow being the only one "in the know". Industry professionals be damned.

Geoff4rfc

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Give up Tony. You are talking to the internet equivilant of a tree stump.

Lol, he sounds like he's related to ravioli

txcoastal1

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

Lol, he sounds like he's related to ravioli

Hey.....I like my Ravioli with Cheezy:cheesygrin:

ZLTFUL

Mmmm...cheezy ravioli...
Great...now I want Italian for lunch...

Habanero Monk

I didn't experience a huge SQ jump until I upgraded speakers. Going from my Yamaha AVR to Marantz monoblocks doubled my wattagefor my 70's. But it was nothing like putting the LSi 9's on them.

Yahzi is correct that you are gaining, roughly, only 1.5dB going from 200 to 300 watts. I don't think it's "Even better 'by far'"can be said in an absolute since no one asked about listening preference or seating distance. It may matter though if you listen at a level where the 1.5 dB is the difference in clipping an amp or not. Not bad information for the OP to have to make informed/educated decisions with.

The OP has $300 to spend. What would be the best way to spend it is what I hope everyone would be on board for. This is about the OP. Take a look at the Crown XLS 1000 DriveCore. You can get it new for $299 or less if you look. Stable down to 2 ohms (so it can deliver plenty of current) and it would last you through a few speaker upgrades. I doubt it would break a sweat on the LSiM's either.

You can also look used but you forgo the warranty. Crown offers 3 year 'No Fault'.

nguyendot

Yahzi wrote: »

Yes, I understand the general usage of the term, but very few amplifiers actually double down perfectly from 8 ohms into 4 ohms and "high current" is not "high current" at all times - if your source/listening level/speaker impedance/phase angle does not call for "high current" then it's a moot question. Moreover, I'm not convinced you understand why you think you would need a high current amplifier. It's just the current trend that you need "x" without fully grasping why you need it.

blah blah blah blah, like how you only nitpick part of what you called me out for. You conveniently left out how you were wrong about the other 80%. You don't understand what he needs at all - you assumed he had a sub, and assumed he was using bass management - please...where did that come from? You think you know everything and try to take joy in nitpicking everyone else but no one cares. We've given advice before you, and will continue to do so long after you're gone.

Habanero Monk

Yahzi wrote: »

.
If the OP is up to date with modern technology and is using a subwoofer then it's reasonable to assume he is also using bass management - both will significantly curtail power demands and therefore the need for a so-called "high current" amplifier is moot.

nguyendot wrote: »

you assumed he had a sub, and assumed he was using bass management.

No he wasn't. I believe he is asking some leading questions to get a clearer, more informed picture of the OP's setup in entirety. He's mentioned a few things so far: Seating distance, and Sub integration. Not bad questions to ask and fully in context with the poll posted.

Geoff4rfc

Habanero Monk wrote: »

Yahzi is correct that you are gaining, roughly, only 1.5dB going from 200 to 300 watts. I don't think it's "Even better 'by far'".

When you're comparing and looking at stats, are you hearing sound? What's being looked over entirely by you and your partner here, is how the M70's "sound" when amped.

If you have "no" experience with the M70's amped from an AVR, then another amp and then another amp, you have nothing to base your statements on except what you can read.

Yahzi

tonyb wrote:

That said, everyone's listening habits are different and so are the needs for power. Any speaker can benefit from more current and that applies to more than loudness.

If everyone's listening habits are different and therefore the power requirements are individually tailored to each individual situation, how can one then generalise the situation and claim "300 watts are better by far"? Based on what? You're just making assertions.

Any speaker can benefit from more current? Uh, yeah until you have enough current for your listening level. What do you think more current will buy you? Don't you understand, for a second time - If the quota for power has been met, adding more serves no logical purpose - ie no benefit.

You only need enough clean power for your listening levels. Any more will not serve a logical purpose - you can claim you need 300 watts, but you have no way of determining how you even arrived at that figure - it's just some bogus figure you manufactured.

The truth of the matter is that no, you don't need 300 watts, and 300 watts is not necessarily better than 200 watts. 300 watts with any reasonable efficient pair of speakers will cause permanent hearing damage at any reasonable distance.

What you aren't able to grasp is that the power requirements are not nearly as steep as you make it out to be - not all people need 300 watts - and if you don't need it, and if the amplifier will never deliver it, then it's a waste of money, so I don't understand why you feel the need to misinform people.

Will a lot of extra power go unused ? Yeah, possibly so....but that's an individual decision. Power is used for more than the amount of DB's you can push out your speakers.

No, you just need to understand that not all people need huge power - you only need enough, over and above that, it makes no difference because it can't. The amp will never deliver more, so it's a moot point.

F1nut

Have no fear, the Monk is here.

F1nut

Tell us Yahzi, exactly what amps, not AVR's, have you tried?

Geoff4rfc

Yahzi wrote: »

If everyone's listening habits are different and therefore the power requirements are individually tailored to each individual situation, how can one then generalise the situation and claim "300 watts are better by far"? Based on what? You're just making assertions.

Based on sound! Speakers have different personalities just like, well just like you! When you generalize stats, you discredit an individual speakers behavior to power input. Until you actually listen to a speakers behavior on different power, your education is limited by your inexperience.

Yahzi

Geoff4rfc wrote:

If you have "no" experience with the M70's amped from an AVR, then another amp and then another amp, you have nothing to base your statements on except what you can read.

I'm sure you have lots of experience comparing amplifier after amplifier after amplifier under unreliable conditions, like not setting the levels the same, or not switching quickly between units, or allowing your personal bias to dictate which unit is better etc etc etc - but that doesn't tell us much.

Yahzi

Geoff4rfc wrote:

Based on sound! Speakers have different personalities just like, well just like you! When you generalize stats, you discredit an individual speakers behavior to power input. Until you actually listen to a speakers behavior on different power, your education is limited by your inexperience.

But how can one assume that 300 watts is NEEDED for everyone? How can anyone make that determination? You claim it's all about the sound, but what if I only need 50 watts given my listening habits? How is 300 watts going to help me if my amplifier is only drawing a fraction of that figure at my listening levels? Claiming it's all about the sound is weak sauce. Anyone can claim that, the question is on what basis can you say that more power is better or even more desirable if you don't need it?

GFOviedo

Getting the popcorn ready!!!:cheesygrin:

Yahzi

F1nut wrote:

Tell us Yahzi, exactly what amps, not AVR's, have you tried?

Too many to list.

Geoff4rfc

Yahzi wrote: »

I'm sure you have lots of experience comparing amplifier after amplifier after amplifier under unreliable conditions, like not setting the levels the same, or not switching quickly between units, or allowing your personal bias to dictate which unit is better etc etc etc - but that doesn't tell us much.

Ok creeper, nice to know you were right there beside me so you can make that absurd claim. BTW anyone give you an answer on how to set up your rear speakers? Try exercising some experience. LwLfe

Geoff4rfc

Yahzi wrote: »

But how can one assume that 300 watts is NEEDED for everyone? QUOTE]

Well there you go, no one ever said he "needed". Now everyone knows what a spaz you are.

Yahzi

The logic around here is that more wattage equals better sound quality. There are certainly situations where more power can be beneficial under the right circumstances, but making ridiculous claims like "oh, you really need 300 watts for much better sound" is unfounded.

PolkieMan

Monitor 70 Series II are good for my rear channels.
But they turn pale and weak beside the 2.3 Tls for 2 channel or fronts.:cheesygrin:

Yahzi

Geoff4rfc wrote:

Ok creeper, nice to know you were right there beside me so you can make that absurd claim.

The odds are your comparisons were about as reliable as the average Joe. You also don't strike me as a technical person. Most people do not have access to a volt meter and are not able to precisely level match across the speaker terminals, and most aren't able to ignore their personal bias at the drop of a hat, and most aren't able to switch instantaneously between amplifiers, so I think it is really, really safe to assume that your comparisons were unreliable. Thanks for playing.

F1nut

Yahzi wrote: »

Too many to list.

Yeah right, more troll BS.

Habanero Monk

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

When you're comparing and looking at stats, are you hearing sound? What's being looked over entirely by you and your partner here, is how the M70's "sound" when amped.

If you have "no" experience with the M70's amped from an AVR, then another amp and then another amp, you have nothing to base your statements on except what you can read.

My first pair of speakers were the 70's. Off an AVR (Yamaha) and then the Pre-outs on the Yamaha driving a pair of Marantz Mono-bloc's. I'm telling you that the while the cost for doubling up my output wattage is not much, neither was the improvement for my seating position and room. Most likely because the 70 isn't a difficult speaker to drive given my circumstances.

I wanted a SQ improvement and eventually scored a pair of LSi 9's. One of the mono-blocks developed a staticy buzz and I picked up the Yamaha P2500S for under $400 at GC.

I don't have the Yammy any more since I am driving everything over USB with a pro-audio interface from computer(does XLR) and has a headphone amp. I've also upgraded and added a dual opposed Infinity Subwoofer that people are currently building the snot out of it and driving it with a Behringer EPX 3000 and using another out on my audio interface.

The OP is in the same scenario with a lot of other people. He or She is trying to figure out their best expenditure of funds. Given my experience I would want to know the seating distance primarily before making ANY wattage or range there of recommendation. It may be that a higher quality, but lower wattage piece of gear would be called for.

Yahzi

F1nut wrote:

Yeah right, more troll BS.

Pot meet Kettle.