bothered about upgrade of spkr wire.

leftwinger57

Yesterday after I gave my evalutation of the SDA- 2bs and told you I was running 14gu clear I heard it from you guys w/ both barrles.Now being me I can't leave anything alone and I called 4-5 different cable companies and almost to a man after telling them the lenghts involved and what amp I was using said leave it alone and let the ones who can hear a difference buy those cables. I called The Cable CO. and spoke to Ethan and told me they have a lending library of all differing brands of cable.For a5% deposit on any pair I would chose they would send me w/ me paying the shipping both ways a set of cables.He suggested DH-LABS T-14 w/ terminators and after 2 weeks send back the lent cable and decide on whether to buy a pair.Guys I really don't know here, what's up, most pros said you will not hear a difference or marginal at best. Before I even get to that lending deal maybe there is a cheaper way. Also yesterday an E-Bay add was selling mulitiple pieces of Monster Cable Z-1. and at that time it was at $1.29.It interested me until I read the reviews of this particular series and there was not 1 positive review anywhere and I mean anywhere. So,I'm sure any co. would sell me some mts. of cable but the concensous of these guys said it wasn't needed.Also I never said that finances was an issue which of course it is.Not to be argumentative but I did do some research and asked what I thought were all the right questions.As you can see Iam trying to absorb your guys advice and put my bias aside but this is a tough one.

decal

You have to decide for yourself with your ears. Notice all the stressed yous? Like Zimmy said, "Don't let other people get your kicks for you".

BlueFox

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Guys I really don't know here, what's up, most pros said you will not hear a difference or marginal at best.

"most pros" What does that mean? Most prostitutes? I doubt if they know much about audio cables. How is the rest of your system? Do you have a dedicated 20 amp circuit? Are all your power cables upgraded? Lots of areas to take care off, and speaker cables are just one part.

Also, just as a bit of constructive criticism, if you format your post it is easier for people to read.

nspindel

And no one says you need to blow the bank on them. Personally, I think Monster is awful and is completely overpriced. I used to use it. Then I switched to Signal Cable and was amazed at how much better my system sounded. Signal is very reasonably priced, and Frank is a great guy to deal with. Many people on this forum use his cables, and I've yet to hear a bad thing about them. www.signalcable.com.

pitdogg2

True enough Neil. I bought some used single cable ultra's from the PF it was the BEST 100 bucks I have spent on my system.

ZLTFUL

Heck, something like Audioquest Flex series 14/2 CL rated cable is a vast improvement over your average 18ga lamp wire.

But some "pros" saying cable doesn't matter? I would be looking for some different "pros".

leftwinger57

Hearing different cables would tip the scales for sure ,but to invest and then not gain anything would be very disappointing .As for my gear none have detachtable power cords so that's out. As for my outlet I use I dedicated oulet and everything runs through my Sampson PS-15 a 9 outlet surge protector .How many joules off hand I do not know.As for the pro titles I gave them they would be the guys selling the stuff so I would think they would know a boatload more than me.I am not giving up on this ,no blanket statement for no new cables I just have to find ones that will fill the bill both in build quality and how much they would be out of pocket. Most said ICs are way more important than speaker cables at reasonably short lenghts. I just wanted you guys to know what some of them thought.For those who have not seen my gear I will list it here.

pitdogg2

ZLTFUL wrote: »

But some "pros" saying cable doesn't matter? I would be looking for some different "pros".

I must disagree here a little. I would really appreciate it if I called a "PRO" as a prospect to buy new cable and after a conversation about my gear and use that they speak the truth IF they feel it would make little or no difference. Anybody can just say yes you need this or that and can't live without it but you really need to spend X amount of dollars to get _________fill in the blank. Would you trust say MIT if you called about new cable for your boombox and they said you NEED the shotguns top of the line? OR Maybe you should try our EXP line and if you like it. Move up and our cable will get a little better each time on much better gear but not on your boombox. It would of been very easy for them to just sell him something but maybe now they will NOT lose a customer over something he wouldn't get the benefit out of...
understand where I'm going here? hard to get this across what I'm trying to say here....

D_M

Leftwinger57,

Everything makes a difference, but you have to know when, to say when. You'll end up in a constant merry go round. I found the speaker cable article below interesting, it might be useful for you.

http://www.shrani.si/f/n/8C/UiucvDd/speakercabletest.pdf

Systems

"Moving up the line"?

Actually I think it is that they offer something in every price range, and possibly some in between those particular price ranges.
It goes without saying, most of the "Big Cable Manufacturers" do indeed invest a lot of R&D in their designs.
Something your run of the mill "Home Depot" cable does not.

That said, I personally, have in fact, noticed a substantial upgrade in performance, with the mating of higher cost components in a cable.

Like speakers, cables are VERY subjective however, so your mileage will always vary!

B Run

I've gone through 5 or so different sets of speaker cables and they all are noticeably different. I really liked the Kimber Kable 4pr for price to performance ratio. It was $3 a foot so my 5ft pair was $30. Definitely an improvement over Canare I was using which was an improvement over Home Depot cord that I had laying around. Worst case you don't like em and sell them online for what you paid or close to it. Good way to get your feet wet without buying super expensive cables if that makes you nervous.

nooshinjohn

Give Doug a shot... these are easily among the best cables I have ever heard...

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?147895-Speaker-Cables-and-IC-s-by-Douglas...

polkfarmboy

Leftw, why don't you ask that helicopter doug guy to do you some cables as a few members around here have had positive experiences using them when compaired to much more pricey cables. Also its like Bluefox says too you need ac cables etc, that guy Doug has ac cables and everything else you may need.

Maybe some members here can give you more info on those cables

Edit: looks like John just posted what I said at the same time lol

gudnoyez

Thanks for starting this thread, I think I will invest in a pair of signal cables the classic spade to spade connects an 8 foot run @ 49.50
Per channel. The ultra is 61.50 for a 8 ft run. Is 8 ft runs plenty,and what do you guys suggest classic or the ultra? Spade to spade, or banana to spade.

leftwinger57

D-M, I'm sorry,You must have an engineering background because that article did absolutely nothing but even confuse me more. I did get the comparison between the lamp cord and the brand of Monster cable they were testing .Throwing out terms like w/ skin effect loss ,round conductors more pronounced than thin flat conductors ?The resistance and reactance do not add arithmetically because the reactance lags resistance by-90 so the series impedence is the root sum of the two.WTF. The graphs they were showing and then the mathimatic formulas .Dude I failed algebra 1 sbout 6x ,that didn't help at all. I do apreciate your attempt.Like I said prior, I will give it a try, I do not need much and none of my speakers including the SDAs are bi-wire which is even better for the wallet.So many of you are that convinced but until I hear it for myself I do not think I'm ready to drink the Kool-Aid.

nooshinjohn

leftwinger57 wrote: »

So many of you are that convinced but until I hear it for myself I do not think I'm ready to drink the Kool-Aid.

No Kool-Aide... get some of Doug's cables and you will hear the difference. If not, I will buy them from you myself.

leftwinger57

PFB- Now that might be a real good option. Someone from this forum who may are maynot be following this rediculousness might just be the ticket. I just might P/M him and see what he says about this whole deal. Again not talking huge amounts of cable here and w/ the info ,insight steering I have gotten this might be the clue I was looking for.Thanks for the tip. Yes I do have Signal Cable ICs and clearly there is no comparison between them and RCAs you get in a box w/ a cdp.

D_M

Leftwinger57,

My apologies, that was not my intention. I just wanted to illustrate how complex this hobby of ours actually is. Don't try to take the mathematical journey with the authors. The last page is the subjective listening test. It highlights how system dependent cables are.

nooshinjohn

leftwinger57 wrote: »

PFB- Now that might be a real good option. Someone from this forum who may are maynot be following this rediculousness might just be the ticket. I just might P/M him and see what he says about this whole deal. Again not talking huge amounts of cable here and w/ the info ,insight steering I have gotten this might be the clue I was looking for.Thanks for the tip. Yes I do have Signal Cable ICs and clearly there is no comparison between them and RCAs you get in a box w/ a cdp.

Typical... I make a suggestion, and PFB gets the credit.:rolleyes:

Guess I must be on leftwinger's naughty list.:eek:

leftwinger57

d-m
You cannot believe how hard Iam laughing at this now .I still have it and will eventually get to the end . I did mean it when I say thanks but whew over my head my g-d.I Still have it and will get to the end w/ the listening test,as you must of gathered by now the 1st page was a bit too much lol

leftwinger57

I just p/m Doug.Now I'm interested in what he says and what he has to offer.Thanks all around and not playing favorites here, you all chimed in.....Lew

gudnoyez

I swapped out all my IC cables to audio quest G snake interconnects on both my two channel rigs. I noticed a difference they are not the best but I like them. Should I be looking at audio quest speaker cable instead of signal cable? I don't usually get involved in cable debates as I haven't a clue when it comes to what's the best at a certain budget.

I have been putting funds off to the side so I can TL one pair of CRS+s and my 2b's it's gonna cost so I don't want to invest to much into cables. I just wonder if I should keep the IC's and speaker cable the same brand. From some of the posts here that seems like the thing to do.

Systems

gudnoyez wrote: »

I swapped out all my IC cables to audio quest G snake interconnects on both my two channel rigs. I noticed a difference they are not the best but I like them. Should I be looking at audio quest speaker cable instead of signal cable? I don't usually get involved in cable debates as I haven't a clue when it comes to what's the best at a certain budget.

I have been putting funds off to the side so I can TL one pair of CRS+s and my 2b's it's gonna cost so I don't want to invest to much into cables. I just wonder if I should keep the IC's and speaker cable the same brand. From some of the posts here that seems like the thing to do.

IMHO, no, it would not matter if they are all the same brand, as long as they bring something to the table.
In fact, I have had full looms of the same brand cables in my system (Zu and others), and preferred some other brands in a certain spot (synergy?).
I always ended up with a "mixed" stable of different brands.

There may be some benefit when you get in the "Uber Higher End" cables for running a full loom of the same brand, but I even have my doubts then, that you could not find a better "off brand" that will perform better in a certain spot with a certain component.

Oldfatdogs

No Kool-Aide... get some of Doug's cables and you will hear the difference. If not, I will buy them from you myself.

That's a hard offer to turn down.
Dan

F1nut

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Yes I do have Signal Cable ICs and clearly there is no comparison between them and RCAs you get in a box w/ a cdp.

As I suggested to you previously, since you already have Signal IC's, get matching Signal speaker cables. You heard a difference with IC's, so I don't understand why you are skeptical about speaker cables, which IMO, make a bigger difference than IC's.

ZLTFUL

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I must disagree here a little. I would really appreciate it if I called a "PRO" as a prospect to buy new cable and after a conversation about my gear and use that they speak the truth IF they feel it would make little or no difference. Anybody can just say yes you need this or that and can't live without it but you really need to spend X amount of dollars to get _________fill in the blank. Would you trust say MIT if you called about new cable for your boombox and they said you NEED the shotguns top of the line? OR Maybe you should try our EXP line and if you like it. Move up and our cable will get a little better each time on much better gear but not on your boombox. It would of been very easy for them to just sell him something but maybe now they will NOT lose a customer over something he wouldn't get the benefit out of...
understand where I'm going here? hard to get this across what I'm trying to say here....

I get what you're saying. And I agree to an extent. But at the same time, just saying "Nope...not going to make a difference." is the worst form of bad customer service. The "pros" who provide the best advice would be the one who listen to what you have for gear and don't try to upsell you stuff you definitely don't need BUT will add the caveat that you *may* see a difference in upgrading from lamp cord to even an entry level/grade cable.

I am lucky enough that I have a buddy who owns a high end shop. And this shop has a loaner cable program so that I can try things out and see for myself whether or not it will make a difference.
Better to give a starting point to actually give it a shot and let him, as the consumer and ultimately the set of ears needing to be convinced, make his own determination.

I am glad we are on the same page.

helipilotdoug

leftwinger57 wrote: »

I just p/m Doug.Now I'm interested in what he says and what he has to offer.Thanks all around and not playing favorites here, you all chimed in.....Lew

PM Sent

tonyb

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Yes I do have Signal Cable ICs and clearly there is no comparison between them and RCAs you get in a box w/ a cdp.

You just answered your own question dude...LOL !!

If cables didn't matter, then those old red and white ones that came with your cdp should sound the same as the Signal cables. Here's the ticket though, do some research, look at what others use. Different cables in the 50 buck range aren't going to sound night and day different either. Used cables is where the value is at and Phil had some nice cables in the FS section for a song. Pepster or Doug can hook you up with good sounding cables on the cheap, I highly recommend you go that route first.

Geoff4rfc

tonyb wrote: »

Used cables is where the value is at and Phil had some nice cables in the FS section for a song.

Lol, so apropos

badchad

Ah yes, the cable debate. I agree with the fist poster: If YOU can hear a difference, then by all means, upgrade your cables. Better yet, grab a buddy, put on a blindfold and have him/her swap out the cables. See if you can tell a difference when you don't know which cables are being used.

This is always an interesting subject, I wish there was more empirical research on the matter.

polkfarmboy

badchad wrote: »

Ah yes, the cable debate. I agree with the fist poster: If YOU can hear a difference, then by all means, upgrade your cables. Better yet, grab a buddy, put on a blindfold and have him/her swap out the cables. See if you can tell a difference when you don't know which cables are being used.

This is always an interesting subject, I wish there was more empirical research on the matter.

You should buy a pair of $10000 speaker cables and then put a blindfold on and do an A/b with some $50 ones and I am sure youl get it right