WHy set speaker size to small with large speakers?

Bob Irvin

Ok...Why is it that most suggest that speaker size gets set to small no matter what size speakers are used?

dave shepard

When you set the speakers to small you give the recievers amp. a break from trying to produce all the freq. signals and it can run longer harder without heating-up. Those LFE signals are what your powered sub is designed to do.

Dave

dorokusai

Bob - NIce to see a fellow ES user in the forum

I couldn't agree more with Dave, it lets the subwoofer handle the LFE. I have found a dramatic change in vocals, depth and presence, without the labor of very low bass signals being recreated on my mains.

If your speakers are in fact large, e.g. towers, you can set them to large, provided they handle the frequencies effectively. Boomy bass is not good bass, and alot of tower speakers cannot accurately reproduce low end frequencies to the extent that a subwoofer is capable.

That's is a general statement, subwoofers are a variable breed also, but I think you get the idea.

scottvamp

In all my setups SMALL sounds better - period. Just try it both ways and see for yourself.
Dave's explanation was right on the money......

Sydney's Dad

I think small/large is subjective. When listening to music I prefer the sound of the large setup and hate the fact that when listing to sacds on my Sony 755 I have to set the speakers on small to use the sub.

If I'm watching a dvd the small setup works fine for me

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by dorokusai
I have found a dramatic change in vocals, depth and presence, without the labor of very low bass signals being recreated on my mains.

Yes - in addition to the dynamics gained by reducing the load on the amp, the reduction in intermodulation distortion (some people call this Doppler distortion) is very significant when the speaks are set to small. A quite noticeable improvement in midrange is almost always the result.

I'm a firm believer in small for all applications - HT, 2 channel, SACD, DVD-A.

rskarvan

If you have enough watts - go large on towers. Nothing like the explosions occurring (and moving) all around you. Whoever said bass was non-directional.... well, they lack ears.

scottvamp

"Bass" is nondirectional. Somebody did not make that up. But if your just joking then that is cool.
On the other note, on most "DVD" soundtracks (5.1)bass is very limited to all speakers(anything under a small set midrange speaker) except the center and subwoofer (LFE). Really.....

mlware

I don't understand most of the things posted here. Starting with the idea bass isn't directionally perceptible, and going from there... Low frequency information specific to a channel is not specific to that channel at all? (At least that fits in with the latest receiver designs with the single subw output. They used to have two until it became a lifestyle perk to only have one sub in all the ads.)(personally I find the right crossover point on my subs and set the processor to "subwoofer no" and output bass and LFE to all speakers plus two subs in stereo configuration from the pre-outs L and R front, because it improves Dolby Digital performance and is a pleasing subjective arrangement. My Polk towers level can be scaled back to avoid boom.)

RuSsMaN

Originally posted by Bob Irvin
Ok...Why is it that most suggest that speaker size gets set to small no matter what size speakers are used?

Because there are a lot of idiots in the world? Got me brotha.



Cheers,
Russ (of the large-camp Russes)

scottvamp

My Polk towers level can be scaled back to avoid boom.)

I have experimented with your theory. I have rt1000p powered towers in one of my HT setups. I came to the conclusion (much to my amazement) that my towers pumped out plenty of bass when set to small. More efficient and cleaner bass even.
Two channel music argueable but Dolby Digital set too small has sounded better in every case. Once again not lossing nothing because a quality sub WILL do its job.

Kpt_Krunch

Originally posted by Sydney's Dad
I think small/large is subjective. When listening to music I prefer the sound of the large setup and hate the fact that when listing to sacds on my Sony 755 I have to set the speakers on small to use the sub.

If I'm watching a dvd the small setup works fine for me

I have all my speakers set to small, my crossover on the sub is set all the way to 150 so my receiver, not my sub, handles the crossover. The receiver is set to 80 for the cross over as my fronts can easily handle the bass above 80hz. When listening to SACD and DVD-A (on a Pioneer 563A) the details in the sound are incredible. I can actually pick an instrument and focus on that one throughout the song. The bass coming from the sub is a nice sound, fills the room, but does not over power the details (if it did, I wouldn't be able to hear the detail). When the speakers are set to large, I do lose detail, I can still hear each instrument, but have to strain to follow a particular one. The overall bass sound kinda drowns out the mids and highs to a certain degree.

This is just my preference, I just experimented with all the different ways of setting up my equipment, and found the small setting to be the best for me.

Loud & Clear

Originally posted by Kpt_Krunch
I have all my speakers set to small, my crossover on the sub is set all the way to 150 so my receiver, not my sub, handles the crossover. The receiver is set to 80 for the cross over as my fronts can easily handle the bass above 80hz. When listening to SACD and DVD-A (on a Pioneer 563A) the details in the sound are incredible. I can actually pick an instrument and focus on that one throughout the song. The bass coming from the sub is a nice sound, fills the room, but does not over power the details (if it did, I wouldn't be able to hear the detail). When the speakers are set to large, I do lose detail, I can still hear each instrument, but have to strain to follow a particular one. The overall bass sound kinda drowns out the mids and highs to a certain degree.

This is just my preference, I just experimented with all the different ways of setting up my equipment, and found the small setting to be the best for me.

We have some of the same equipment, and definitely have found some of the same results. I think the real key is finding a way to dial in the sub; once this is accomplished, if it can be accomplished, you find zen whoopie.

ntculenuff

i have spkrs set to small. not only do i agree with how they detail and the vocals have more presence you can also turn your system up louder because your speakers (usually 4.5-7" in towers and bookshelfs) don't have to try and reproduce something they were really not designed for..

picked up a second sub years ago for mid bass punch and that made all the diff, filled in the sound

shack

Fronts and center set to LARGE and surrounds set to small (only because there is usually nothing below 80hz sent to the rear anyway). Sub is set for 80 hz. Fronts are RT55i, center is CS400i, rears are RT15i and a Dayton Titanic sub. Tried both ways and to my ears front and center on LARGE won hands down. I understand the logic, but it doesn't hold true in my case.

scottvamp

Depending on the movie but "at Reference level" set to large I have already blown a new CS400i a couple years ago. Tons of sound on the center with DVD. Mains could go both ways but the small amount of low end bass sent to the mains (not being towers) is better off being sent to the sub. Much more sonic and detailed set to small. But still putting plenty of mid bass.

mantis

....

scottvamp

.....

shack

Originally posted by mantis
....

Dan's point was well taken....

Originally posted by scottvamp
....

But Scott vehemently disagreed...


And the debate raged on...

walk

Depends a lot on your speakers, your amp(s), your subwoofer, your room and your listening habits/levels.

I think if your speakers can reproduce good levels of bass down into the 20's hz region, and you have the amp power to do it, you do well to set i.e. your Fronts to Large.

Bass above 60hz *is* directional, at least to my ears, I can't speak for everyone...

I set my RTi150's to Large. I mean, they are good full-range speakers, why not use them, plus my AVR amp is 100wpc (so 200 total for the Fronts) while my sub is only 50w... asking it to reproduce the bass from all 6 channels plus the LFE, while I have 6 x 6.5 woofers on the 150's and good amp power (bi-wired) to drive them... why not? Maybe some day when I get the SVS I will try different settings

scottvamp

If a person had Rti150's all around, cs1000p center and a bad **** amp. Ya, large would work just fine.
But for now lets stay in the REAL world. Filled with bookshelf speakers and low/mid line recievers.;)

scottvamp

Originally posted by shack
Dan's point was well taken....

But Scott vehemently disagreed...

And the debate raged on...

Shack, I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Good stuff!!!!!!!:D

VR3

I run mine on large........ (Why?) Because I have my subwoofer wired with speaker wire (Why?) It's cheaper (number 2?) It sounds better (to me). (Do the speakers also sound better?) yes (Why?) Because the pioneer elite has a 100hz crossover (YIKES) (Do i like this?) NO (So what did I do?) I wired my speakers with the subwoofer!

Anyways, I've noticed my speakers sound the same on large or small in most cases. The Mains having 2 tweeters in them are incredibly bright when set to small so I leave them on large. In which they're still bright, so then I leave it up to tone controls to fix it. Either way, the RT35i has murderous bass above 40hz, so i run them on small (in which the 100hz crossover just seems to be no where to be found still). I also run the Klipsch center on large (to keep the piezo dome down a notch or two!)

In other terms to get to the point, I can push 110db out of my mains effectively when they're set on large, the only thing holding me back is the 60 watt amp pushing the RT5. It kinda drops out at about 105db in the left channel (no idea why just the left, maybe im running it hotter than the right). Anyways, thats my take, its up to your ears. I honestly dont hear a difference in my system to justify all my speakers on small. In most cases they sound better to me on large and aint no way I play them loud enough to where the amps give me problems.......so.......

hank1105

Just that I would add my 2 cents.

I set all my speakers to SMALL based on recommendations from this board. However, setting the speakers to LARGE distorts DVD's, but is excellent for music. My subwoofer kicks major butt for movies and is ok for music. I don't think there is a way on my Sony receiver to selectively state the setting for the speakers depending on source.

Just my 2 cents.

Hank

VR3

Distorts DVDs??

Explain?

hank1105

Distorts DVD's - maybe that wasn't the best explanation - the sound is to bassy (sp?) when watching DVD's when set to LARGE and when the DVD's are 5.1. Music normally is 2.0 / 2.1, just something I have noticed. This was mentioned in previous posts, just my wording was in poor taste

scottvamp

Hank your explanation is a big part of majority for HomeTheater buffs. Setting standard HT speakers to large will muddy the DVD sound. Meaning it will try to produce the deep and mid bass at the same time and with most Polks with the same driver.
Small will give you clean mids and let a nice sub do it's job with the rest of the bass.
And yes in the same setup you can get some benifit with music setting to large depending on the tunes ya like.

hank1105

Scottvamp - sorry for the late reply. That is exactly what I thought - thanks for the info.

Sydney's Dad

Front Rti150's set to Large
Side Rti70's set to Large
Rear RT20p's set to Large
Center CSi40 set to Large

Sounds perfectly fine to me

Sydney's Dad

Who needs small speakers?

scottvamp

Originally posted by Sydney's Dad
Who needs small speakers?

You have killer setup. But where is your sub - if not your missing out on the "small' theory.;)