Thinking inside the box.

TennMan

I'm often known for thinking outside the box but calling this idea, "Thinking inside the box.", might be more appropriate.

I've read here on the forum that some people add sand or lead shot to their speaker stands. I assume it is to better couple the stands to the floor or eliminate vibrations. I was wondering if I add sealed bags of sand to the floor (bottom) of my cabinets on the inside what the results might be. Due to clearance problems with cabinet doors above my 2Bs I can't add spikes to my cabinets. So, I'm wondering if adding the weight of the sand to the base of my cabinets on the inside might give a similar result to adding spikes by coupling the cabinets to the hardwood floor better.

If you guys can give me a good list of reasons I shouldn't try this you might save me from wasting a lot of time.

zane77

If you put sand inside the speaker cabinet it would take up the inside volume of the speaker and it (the speaker) was designed with that volume for the speaker to work properly

Schurkey

^^^ you'll screw up the tuning of the passive radiator by taking away a bunch of air space in the cabinet.

The floor under the speakers is carpeted???

How much room above the speakers do you have? Spikes can be set up to raise the speaker as little as 1/2 inch--maybe less. You'd have fun getting them lifted into position, though, since the spikes will want to drag on the floor. You could "shoehorn" them into position using a piece of sheetmetal or Formica or somesuch--put the low spikes on the speaker cabinets, put the speaker cabinets on the sheetmetal. Slide the speakers into position, wiggle the sheetmetal back out. 1" clearance above the cabs might be plenty, with room to spare.

heartystatue

What is your main reason for wanting to add weight? Are the speakers moving?

TennMan

The bags taking up volume inside the cabinets is something I hadn't considered and that probably kills this idea.

The floor under the speakers is hardwood. There is less than 1/8" between the cabinet doors and the top of the speakers. If I have two CDs on top of the speakers it will knock one of them off when I open the cabinet door... so I think spikes are out. The speakers have plastic buttons on the bottom about 1/8"-3/16" tall that the speakers slide on.

TennMan

heartystatue wrote: »

What is your main reason for wanting to add weight? Are the speakers moving?

The speakers aren't moving that I can tell. It's been reported by people smarter than me that spikes, even on hardwood floors, improve the bass. (To be honest I don't quite understand how it works on hardwood floors but I take their word for it.) I was thinking about how I could achieve the same results without adding spikes when I ran across several posts here on the forum where I read about adding sand or lead shot to speaker stands. Reading about that is why I started this thread.

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

The speakers aren't moving that I can tell. It's been reported by people smarter than me that spikes, even on hardwood floors, improve the bass. (To be honest I don't quite understand how it works on hardwood floors but I take their word for it.) I was thinking about how I could achieve the same results without adding spikes when I ran across several posts here on the forum where I read about adding sand or lead shot to speaker stands. Reading about that is why I started this thread.

Ronnie, don't screw with the interior volume by adding material. As Schurkey said, you'll alter the parameters the Passive Radiator is tuned to. How thick is the bottom piece? Is it part of the cabinet, or is it added to the cabinet bottom. I know some remove and refinish or re-veneer the tops and bottoms, so i'm thinking these parts are separate. If they are, and there's additional thickness, consider countersinking the spikes into the bottom slab, by drilling out a 1 1/4"-1 1/2" round hole, deep enough so that only 1/4" of spike protrudes beyond the bottom.

StantonZ

Doesn't anyone use "Tip Toes" anymore? I think they were more for use with carpeted floors, but the general effect was to enhance the bass; some people even used to use a (mini) version of them for turntables, etc. I have 3 under each of my Monitor 10's (I don't really route any bass to my center channel Monitor 4's).

westmassguy

StantonZ wrote: »

Doesn't anyone use "Tip Toes" anymore? I think they were more for use with carpeted floors, but the general effect was to enhance the bass; some people even used to use a (mini) version of them for turntables, etc. I have 3 under each of my Monitor 10's (I don't really route any bass to my center channel Monitor 4's).

"Tip Toes" are spikes, that's what we're talking about

PolkieMan

Well I want to get some spikes for my 1C
and I feel that good spikes is good spikes
so where should I go to buy some at a
good price?

westmassguy wrote: »

Ronnie, don't screw with the interior volume by adding material. As Schurkey said, you'll alter the parameters the Passive Radiator is tuned to. How thick is the bottom piece? Is it part of the cabinet, or is it added to the cabinet bottom. I know some remove and refinish or re-veneer the tops and bottoms, so i'm thinking these parts are separate. If they are, and there's additional thickness, consider countersinking the spikes into the bottom slab, by drilling out a 1 1/4"-1 1/2" round hole, deep enough so that only 1/4" of spike protrudes beyond the bottom.

Drenis

Can we get a picture of this?

westmassguy

PolkieMan wrote: »

Well I want to get some spikes for my 1C
and I feel that good spikes is good spikes
so where should I go to buy some at a
good price?

I've used these on my 2As and both Subwoofers http://www.ebay.com/itm/380442488663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

TennMan

westmassguy wrote: »

Ronnie, don't screw with the interior volume by adding material. As Schurkey said, you'll alter the parameters the Passive Radiator is tuned to. How thick is the bottom piece? Is it part of the cabinet, or is it added to the cabinet bottom. I know some remove and refinish or re-veneer the tops and bottoms, so i'm thinking these parts are separate. If they are, and there's additional thickness, consider countersinking the spikes into the bottom slab, by drilling out a 1 1/4"-1 1/2" round hole, deep enough so that only 1/4" of spike protrudes beyond the bottom.

You are right. The sand bag idea is a no fly. I'll have to take a closer look at the bottom of the speakers to see what I can do that would allow me to add some short spikes. I'm wondering if the benefits of adding spikes on hardwood floors is worth the trouble it will take for me to add them with the height constraints that I have. I'll give it some more thought later on tonight while listening to Morph The Cat.

PolkieMan

Thanks!
These are nice if you need to move them around a bit or you have wood floors

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Component-Spike-Stand-Floor-Protector-Floor-Disc-for-Audio-Cones-Spikes-/380442486449?pt=US_Speaker_Mounts_Stands&hash=item589423a6b1

westmassguy wrote: »

I've used these on my 2As and both Subwoofers http://www.ebay.com/itm/380442488663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

StantonZ

westmassguy wrote: »

"Tip Toes" are spikes, that's what we're talking about

Not exactly: what you guys are talking about is physically attached to the bottom of the speaker and (sometimes) the floor. These things look like (upside down) pyramids and are used in groups of 3 (or the speaker/object wouldn't have a "plane" to rest on). Don't know what they were made of (obviously some kind of metal), but they were perfect for non-permanent carpet installation.

bigaltx24

These may be a solution.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

You are right. The sand bag idea is a no fly. I'll have to take a closer look at the bottom of the speakers to see what I can do that would allow me to add some short spikes. I'm wondering if the benefits of adding spikes on hardwood floors is worth the trouble it will take for me to add them with the height constraints that I have. I'll give it some more thought later on tonight while listening to Morph The Cat.

Well you could always bolt them to the floor, although I doubt your wife would like the idea.

Mr. Bubbles

More to consider here than just the spikes. Spikes do enhance bass by coupling to the floor better. Especially on carpeted surfaces. Most dont spike directly to hardwood floors as the damage to the floor would be unwanted. Pads to "receive" the spikes are used as well in those instances. This would not be practical in your situation due to the inablilty to place/ align/ and then slide the speakers into place with everything staying as it should. Without a good bit of modification (removing basses, modifying them heavily, mounting spike to cabinet through the base, etc) i would suggest something like this;

http://www.dontscrapit.com/Alabama-/Construction-/Gbc-1361-ball-bearing-carrier-insert-ball-tray-roller.php5

It will reduce the floor/ cabinet contact area even more-so than the plastic sliders you have now, especially if you use three (two front and one rear). Though not quite the point of a spike, the floor contact area will be very small, increasing the contact pressure at those points for greater coupling. Also gives you the benefit of ease of moving cabinets. With soft wood floors these can still leave some marks if not carefully used.