Cable Elevators

F1nut

This is one of those tweaks that I've never been too sure about. The notion that a carpet puts off a static charge affecting the transmission line signal just doesn't make sense to me, but the notion that vibrations transmitted from the carpeted floor to the cables when music is playing does have some logic behind it.

My research into cable elevators found that the material choices are ceramic, wood, acrylic and various foam based products. Styles are all over the place as is the cost. I narrowed down the choices to the round type as they would fit best where my cables run. Signal Cable has a nice looking clear acrylic version on their site, but apparently they are redesigning them and do not have any available right now. Precision Audio offers ones that look like the old power line insulators, too damn ugly for me. CA Electronics has some nice looking ceramic ones, but the bright white color and more so, the cost made me keep looking. I found a company out of England that offers a wooden version and a big plus, I can color them black.

http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=US&currency=USD&pf_id=4227&customer_id=PAA1914058913026IUPTIDEVTQEMGJWT

Still being somewhat skeptical I thought before I order them I would make some from Styrofoam cups approximately the same size/style as the wooden ones. Ten cups later I installed them and sat down for a critical listen to a few very familiar CD's and SACD's. I heard a very subtle improvement, but an improvement none the less. There is definitely a slight reduction in glare at the top end that I wasn't aware was there. I'm already planning a tweak or two. I think lining the cradle area with some sort of foam or rubber padding will help further isolate the cable and I'm also thinking of adding a foam or rubber pad on the bottom.

I'm interesting in knowing if anyone else here is using cable elevators and if so, which ones and what has been your experience with them?

tonyb

I did the same as you only with opposite results. Thought about ordering the ceramic ones but also wanted to try out paper cups in the same sense you did. My results too were slight but seemed to take away some musicality. The difference in our cables is mine are not shielded. You would think that would have been even a bigger reason to raise them up. Also the carpet comes into play, wool carpet....definitely raise them. Most have some blend of polyester which doesn't hold static like wool does. Another concern is the humidity in the room.

I get the whole notion of cable elevators, may work for some but not others as everyones room/carpet/cables are different. If your carpet is not wool and you don't have humidity swings, I don't see a reason to buy them other than for looks.

Also if your handy you can make your own out of blocks of wood by just cutting a "v" in the top and either paint or stain to your desired color. Vibrations don't concern me either as my speakers are on carpet over a concrete floor.

tonyb

There is another aspect to this too. Your ears change over time, that's no secret, but so do your cables sound. Oxidation on connectors is one reason which we are all too familiar with. But lets look at the cable itself. Static and dust run hand in hand regardless of the carpet. Does anyone dust their cables ? A good layer of dust can alter the signal flow depending of course. By raising them you also have given yourself the opportunity to dust them every so often.

I guess you could say a cable that gets connections cleaned and dust removed every so often is a happy cable. Our ears adjust to those small changes over time too. Sometimes just cleaning connections can make an audible difference. Everyone's situation is different so experiment and see if it will work for you to your benefit.

heiney9

Believe it or not Tony I do dust my cables and I use compressed air for those hard to reach areas. Nothing worse than spending a lot of money on your cables only to let them get all covered in dust. I await more analysis on cable elevators.

H9

tonyb

Somehow Brock, I believe you. :cheesygrin:

Btw Jess, concerning vibrations, if you do get elevators make sure they have some weight to them. If you think about how we eliminate vibrations from our gear, use that concept. No, I'm not saying to buy expensive spikes for your cables, but something that can absorb vibrations like thick wood.

Raising a cable to avoid static is one thing, doing it to avoid vibrations too is another. With so many cable elevators available, choose the right ones for you.

george daniel

FWIW I use the ceramic insulators from telephone poles, got them from jerryj,, the local thrift stores are usually loaded with them,,the ones that I'm looking for are the green ones with the hole thru the center,,to me they are cool.Jesse and the rest of you have better ears than me,, does it help?? well,, it's been said before,but bears repeating,,everything matters,, it all adds up! Certainly makes vacuuming easier.:biggrin:

pearsall001

I've been using Signal Cables acrylic elevators for years now. I actually wanted to buy a few more but as Jesse mentioned they are out of stock (it's been awhile now) so I wonder if Frank will continue to carry them. Prices & looks for elevators are all over the map. To be honest I couldn't absolutely say if they made a difference or not but for the price of admission & the way they dress up one's cabling I say it's a bargain. Pretty much all tweeks have an accumilation effect on the system as a whole. The best way to hear a difference is to have the tweek in place for awhile & become familiar with the sound & then remove it. You will know immediately if the tweek worked by noticing any difference in the sound. If you feel something is missing then it worked without a doubt. If you don't notice any difference & the cost was minimal it's still a nice addition.

drumminman

I've taken a slightly different approach. I use foam polyethylene pipe insulators found in the plumbing department at Lowes or HD. I open them and put the cables inside length wise so the only part of the cable not covered is when it goes vertical to connect to the power amp on one end and the speakers on the other.

They're mostly air, the foam seems to help reduce vibration, raise the cables off the floor, and protects them from dust.
I have wool carpet but the cables mostly rest on a black marble fireplace hearth. Though somewhat ugly the pipe insulators are not that noticeable on the black marble. Thought about spray painting them black, but haven't gotten around to it.

Do they improve sound quality? Don't know but they're cheap, easy to try and I like the concept.

Jhayman

While I would probably not be in the class to try these things out, I would have to say though like you said leave it in your system for awhile then remove it and see you hear a difference but get someone else to remove them without you knowing and see if you notice..
If they do make a minimal difference then the Placebo effect will take place IMO..
Don't want to start a argument, I think it just makes sense..IMO

pearsall001 wrote: »

I've been using Signal Cables acrylic elevators for years now. I actually wanted to buy a few more but as Jesse mentioned they are out of stock (it's been awhile now) so I wonder if Frank will continue to carry them. Prices & looks for elevators are all over the map. To be honest I couldn't absolutely say if they made a difference or not but for the price of admission & the way they dress up one's cabling I say it's a bargain. Pretty much all tweeks have an accumilation effect on the system as a whole. The best way to hear a difference is to have the tweek in place for awhile & become familiar with the sound & then remove it. You will know immediately if the tweek worked by noticing any difference in the sound. If you feel something is missing then it worked without a doubt. If you don't notice any difference & the cost was minimal it's still a nice addition.

steveinaz

If you do a search, you'll find my post from a few years ago, as well as an inexpensive source for porcelain cable elevators. This is one of those "it certainly won't hurt anything" tweaks---so give it a try. If have extreme static electricity problems in SoAz.

Here it is: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?99825-Cable-elevators...&highlight=cable+elevators

treitz3

Hello, Jesse. I have no opinion one way or another when it comes to cable lifters as I have never done any A/B with them. With that said, the finer sounding systems I have heard seemingly always had them. Very clean sound on each. I have ran across one gentleman that lives across the big pond that made his own. I was so impressed with the look that this is what I will end up doing to mine. Below are some photos of what I'm talking about. That would be much better than me trying to describe them.

As you can see, they are simple cable elevators. Doing what you can with wood staining/finishing, you could make these look like a million bucks and it won't cost you an arm and a leg. Just thought I'd throw it out there for ya'

Tom

custopper30

Wow, those are actually really cool cable lifters and for how simply they are. Good find

cstmar01

Jesse, how are you dealing with the network box on the MITs with the elevators? Are you just going to stick a large block under that or something else?

Dawgfish

Wow that's really sweet looking! I too have never tried the lifters, so I can't say anything one way or another about any sonic benefits. I used to qo over to Ted's (RT1s) place quite a bit when I lived down his way and he had some nice cable lifters in his system. To this day that is one of if not the cleanest and most detailed systems I have heard. I have no idea whether the lifters made any difference or it was just all of the kickass components, cables, and tubes he had. I tend to subscribe to the everything makes a difference point of view now, so that's something I'm going to have to try.

BlueFox

I attached my cables to the support rods on the rack, which keeps them off the floor. However, a few feet of each power cord is on the floor. Also, a year or two ago somebody posted about their homemade contraption to reduce cable vibration, and said it made an obvious difference. After that I felt my speaker cables at the point where they attach to the speaker, and sure enough there is detectable vibration. However, I never followed up on that even though I have all the other gear on brass footers to reduce vibrations.

tonyb

Rick has some pretty good elevators in the "post a pic" thread. Though it could cause other issues.

F1nut

Good stuff guys, thanks!

tonyb wrote:

Does anyone dust their cables ?

But, of course. :cheesygrin:

tonyb wrote:

No, I'm not saying to buy expensive spikes for your cables

You know I thought about spiking the cable elevators, but I don't think I can make them work on the round ones.

george daniel wrote:

the rest of you have better ears than me

George, there's nothing wrong with your hearing.

pearsall001 wrote:

Pretty much all tweeks have an accumilation effect on the system as a whole.

So true Phil, so true.

drumminman wrote:

I use foam polyethylene pipe insulators found in the plumbing department

I hadn't thought about those, but I can see that working.

Jhayman wrote:

If they do make a minimal difference then the Placebo effect will take place IMO..

Your comment doesn't make sense to me.

steveinaz wrote:

If you do a search, you'll find my post from a few years ago, as well as an inexpensive source for porcelain cable elevators.

Did you hear a difference?

Interesting comment by Newsman in your thread about those, "The top gray/black part is actually iron to prevent high voltage lines from sparking when bouncing up on the elevator. As such for home audio it might actually store EM energy around the wire with no way to drain it. "

treitz3 wrote:

I have ran across one gentleman that lives across the big pond that made his own.

Thanks, I remembered your thread about those, but the round ones will work better for me.

cstmar01 wrote:

how are you dealing with the network box on the MITs with the elevators?

Good question. I put some AcoustiPack 3 layer foam damping material under them.

F1nut

Hey Chris, talking about vibration abatement I know you'll get a kick out of this. When I installed all the PS Audio Soloists I applied Dynamat Extreme to the double gang boxes on any area I could.

polkfarmboy

F1nut wrote: »

Hey Chris, talking about vibration abatement I know you'll get a kick out of this. When I installed all the PS Audio Soloists I applied Dynamat Extreme to the double gang boxes on any area I could.

Sound dampening on an outlet lol

I wonder why these guys from signal cables stopped making their risers, I would rather have supported those guys with my money for a few sets. I am thinking of going with these pictured from Musicdirect.com

Getting any cable up off a noisy static carpet for sure makes a diff. I never noticed this until I started putting cardboard risers I made myself last month and things got a little more refined.

steveinaz

Jesse, can't really say if they make an audible difference.

Tom---cool risers.

pitdogg2

line them with a peice of sobathane. you can get it in a sheet for turntables and trim what you need to set inside Jess. For what it's worth I just used cable loop straps to screw to my baseboard...I got like 3bucks in it it didn't make a difference except my wife don't suck up cables anymore in the vac.

cstmar01

F1nut wrote: »

Hey Chris, talking about vibration abatement I know you'll get a kick out of this. When I installed all the PS Audio Soloists I applied Dynamat Extreme to the double gang boxes on any area I could.

That is awesome. Good idea on the MIT boxes, might have to try something similar myself!

I'm looking forward to your impression with the elevators in place. I've been tempted to get my brother to make me a few along with some matching amp stands, however time is not always our best friend these days.

EndersShadow

cstmar01 wrote: »

That is awesome. Good idea on the MIT boxes, might have to try something similar myself!

I'm looking forward to your impression with the elevators in place. I've been tempted to get my brother to make me a few along with some matching amp stands, however time is not always our best friend these days.

Yup, when I head up to WI for the 4th to stay with my uncles (carpenters by trade) I want them to make me some cheapy cable elevators using some nice wood and also a TT isolation sandbox with a butcherblock floating insert. Figure we can bang that stuff out quick.

I am probably going to go the cheap route and just get some really nice pieces of wood and have them cut a half circle at the bottom (for power wires) a full in the middle (for speaker wire) and another half at top (if I ever bi-wire) using 2x4's or something along those lines.

I love Tom's balsa wood ones so maybe I will have them make me those instead. Figure on making 20 of em as that should be enough for both my systems

F1nut

Ivan, thanks for the Sobathane suggestion. It appears I will need something thin as the width of the cradle is 23mm and my cables are 21mm.

zingo

Have not tried them before, but I think they could have an effect in some systems. I too have carpet and pad on slab in my listening room, so I'm not worried about that effect. The static electricity could interact with the electricity in the cable...

CoolJazz

pitdogg2 wrote: »

...it didn't make a difference except my wife don't suck up cables anymore in the vac.

I thought that was what they made the cables with 72 volts floating on them for? :twisted:

Wish I could draw cartoons .... :razz:

CJ

brgman

Regarding EM buildup-would zapping with a vinyl record anti-static gun be of any use or detrimental? Or either?

BlueFox

brgman wrote: »

Regarding EM buildup-would zapping with a vinyl record anti-static gun be of any use or detrimental? Or either?

When I bought one from Mapleshade the instructions were very emphatic to only try that on disconnected cables as it was possible to zap the electronics at the end of the cable. Perhaps they were just doing a CYA, but I wish that had been mentioned in the ad since I would not have bought it if I knew I had to disconnect the cable before zapping it.

teekay0007

I've found in situations like this that there's a direct correlation between the price paid for the cable elevators and the sound quality improvement realized from your system, especially to the buyer/owner of said system. Apparently, it doesn't matter what they're made of, how big they are, their color or how much they weigh; just how much is spent on them. So, the lesson to be taken from this is to spend on them like a madman. It's been presented to me, time and time again, that to get really good sound improvements from your cable elevators, the minimum spending threshold on a set that must be met is right around $300. Reeeeeallllllly good sound can be found at about the $600 price point.

F1nut

Really? Let's see, so far I've spent zero, zip, nada as I have no idea where the Styrofoam cups came from. I do plan on buying the wooden ones because I'd like something a little more substantial and ten of them should run less than $120.00.

teekay0007

Ooh, that's kind of taking a(n) (unnecessary?) chance there, seeing as how you'll be substantially below the $300 threshold to get a really good sound quality improvement.

I'll keep an eye out for your blinded-evaluator study test results.