Magnepan 1.7 vs Gallo 3.5 - Help Guys

SolidSqual

Hello,

I currently own a pair of Gallo 3.5 speakers with a SA Amp. My listening space is 20 X 30 X 12. This area is in a basement finished with drywall on wood. The interesting thing is that only half the basement is finished. My listening space is literally a finished room within an unfinished basement. To make matters more interesting, there is a one to three foot space all the way around the finished drywall which can be accessed through a set of doors. I can literally walk around the entire exterior of the listening room. The total footprint of the basement is about 2200 sq/ft.

As you can imagine, I am having some bass issues. I believe the drywall and space between the drywall and concrete/cinder black is literally killing all bass. Does this sound accurate? Frankly, the bass of the 3.5 is tight but lacking impact and tactile response that you might expect form a subwoofer (which is closer to what I hoped to gain with the addition of the SA amp).

The remainder of my equipment consists of a Windows 7/Jriver Music Server feeding a PS Audio PWD MKII and D-Sonic M2 1500M Amps via XLR with Spatial Audio Cables throughout and Blue Circle PLC conditioners.

I just purchased a Seaton Sound Submersive HP to assist in the bass department.

Now, the other question in my mind is, should I keep the Gallos, which have an amazing midrange and intoxicating soundstage. I love big soundstages. I love being surrounded by the sound, which is why I think I like the Gallos so much. That said, Magnepan is known for being a wall of sound with amazing soundstaging. On larger pieces, I think the Gallos can sound small. I'm thinking the Magnepan 1.7 with Seaton Sond Submersive HP could be a killer combo. What are your thoughts?

I have a few worries about the Maggies. Can they hand Progressive Metal like Tool (when paired with the sub)? How would they respond to a movie soundtrack like the Matrix? I like loud music, but I'm not a headbanger. I doubt I watch movies at reference levels, but I still like to turn it up. I'm just concerned as to how fast the ribbons start to give up as the volume and more importantly dynamics increase.

I want to get my ears on a pair of 1.7s, but there is nothing local right now.

Can anyone offer some good advice?

Regards,

Mike

polkfarmboy

Both speakers are going to lack bass, the gallo's are made for smaller rooms and it sounds like a pretty big one your in. The maggies can't handle the real deal bass for that room and you should try a set of 3.6 or 3.7 if you can swing it. Why not try a pair of Sanders or Martin Logans if you want a a great bottom end but they cost more money than for what you get from maggies

As far as how loud you can play the 1.7 or any electrostat is up to you as thats the magic. They never sound loud and just make you want o crank them up higher and higher as its distortion free and just makes magic. Movies like the matrix will sound better than you could ever imagine andd the speed of these types of speakers is breathtaking

SolidSqual

Well I figured the subwoofer would fill in the bass area. Eventually I will get a second Seaton Submersive. I guess I'm looking for the best speaker to do midrange and highs.

I like Open Baffle Speakers so the Maggies seem like a natural choice. I will take another look at Martin Logan. Thank you.

nooshinjohn

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Both speakers are going to lack bass, the gallo's are made for smaller rooms and it sounds like a pretty big one your in. The maggies can't handle the real deal bass for that room and you should try a set of 3.6 or 3.7 if you can swing it. Why not try a pair of Sanders or Martin Logans if you want a a great bottom end but they cost more money than for what you get from maggies

As far as how loud you can play the 1.7 or any electrostat is up to you as thats the magic. They never sound loud and just make you want o crank them up higher and higher as its distortion free and just makes magic. Movies like the matrix will sound better than you could ever imagine andd the speed of these types of speakers is breathtaking

Most of what you say about Magnepan is incorrect there PFB...

Magnepans are not a good choice for HT IMHO, because while they do love power, a condition called "mylar" slap develops. this is the sound of the mylar diaphragm making contact with the magnetic plate, and occurs when the panel is being over-driven by the amp. The Maggies are also not shy on the bass any longer. The bass they produce is among the fastest, most detailed and accurate bass I have heard from a loudspeaker.

I played a vinyl track of Henry Mancini's "The Pink Panther" during my get together a week ago. On the MG-20's, it was one of those "holy crap" moments an audiophile lives for. The musicians were literally alive and in my living room playing, with particular kudos to the tenor saxophone. If one closed their eyes, you could literally be pulled into the recording. Everybody's jaw dropped... the moment was THAT GOOD.

I do agree with PFB mike on one thing. Those 1.7's are very good speakers, but knowing you, they will leave you wanting something else. The sweet spot for me given the size of your room is going to be the 3.6 or 3.7. The bass will get as deep as you need without a sub, and that glorious 5 foot tall ribbon tweeter will blow your mind with the incredible shimmer and detail it produces. I have found that ribbon to be the best sounding driver I have ever heard. Always crisp and detailed, airy and refined regardless of volume level, and never beaming, or overly bright...

Give me a call Mike if you would like to talk some more about them.

John

markmarc

SS:
First off Noosh is right, Maggie's just are not an HT speaker. For the past two summers when I pull out my modded 1.6's, I make sure to have my little ACI mini-monitors ready to play.

Obviously, you have all the power needed to drive the Maggies, and yes when given the juice they do create the wall of sound and immense detail. But as so many have said over the years the sound is either a love it or hate it.

As for the room, sorry I don't have an answer for you, but duel subs is a logical end game based upon either speaker.

SolidSqual

Well, I think I have a room solution: Closed-Form Foam Insulation. The local audio guy here says it adds rigidity to the walls and completely seals them. I think he said something like "you will be living inside a subwoofer." Plus an added side effect is reduced leakage to the rest of the house.

I think the foam installation is fairly affordable. I'm going to look into it.

Thanks for the input on the Maggies. You guys confirmed my own suspicions. I really want to try a pair, but I suspect they will not be my cup of tea. I like open baffle and dipole speakers, but I also like to be able to turn up the volume or leave the room with the 1812 OVerture playing without worrying about whether I'm going to blow something up or burn it out. Crap. Maybe someday.

Mike

PS

John, I'll try to give you a call. I figured you would respond. Thanks for the input. Hope you are having fun with the new house.

polkfarmboy

Well maggiesit is but if HT is important then grab a pair of ML Vantage as they really have that slamming bass compared to the Vista I use. They are the best budget electrostats for HT but those Electromotions sound great too if your using top quality amplification but the binding posts are a deal breaker

Edit: Never saw your post at the time of writing but anyways good luck on what ever you choose. I suspect you might be a ML guy but you just dont know it yet lol. FYI ML do not get the mylar slapping thing and if you have the room they can be a scary HT speaker giving you that open baffle dose of sound 10 fold

wayne3burk

Maybe I missed it in the original post, but I noticed several people saying that maggies aren't really that good for Home Theatre. Your post is posted in the 2-channel thread. That being said, it sounds like you have plenty of room for maggies to breathe.

In regards to your one to three feet space between your framing of your walls and the cinderblock / cement walls, it occured to me that you might have an opportunity to play with some infinite baffle subwoofers. Opposite of my living room wall is our two car garage. I've considered trying to install some 15" woofers in the wall open to the garage behind them, but I don't have the resources, nor the cahones to broach the subject with my wife. I'm sure it's the last thing she wants to see.

Good luck with finding the right solution.

Wahyne

Polkie2009

Congrats on the Seaton Sound Submersive HP sub, those things are suppose to be awesome and a pair of them should provide plenty of bass for your system in that big of LR. Definitely look into installing some bass traps and acoustic panels.

mantis

After reading this entire thread , I have a few comments.

First off lets address your room. I like the idea of the spray foam. You gotta keep bass energy in the room in order to pressurize it. Bass leaks will kill your low end. More subs are also a key to wonderful room filling bass. I suggest at least 2. Most of the time I get any room to perform with just 2.
As far as the Gallo's are concerned , they are a wonderful speaker. I have listened to them so many times. We are a Gallo dealer. You can get them to sound as good as I assume you want with room mods over buying new speakers. I don't think your speakers are the issue. Really consider looking into room treatments first. If you know a good carpenter , I suggest getting some tips from him to seal up that room.
Also proper placement to sitting will yield great results.
I will also say that the Gallo's bass isn't completely magic. It's clean and tight but does lack depth and drive. They are good subs that are built onto the speaker. I really like the stand alone models. Careful placement might squeeze the last word out of them. If I lived close to you , I'd come over and we together could get them to really shine.
I know nothing of the Seaton Sub , I have no experience , sorry can't help there. But I would get another to smooth out the room IF you like the way it performs.

The Maggie 1.7's are simply amazing. I really love the way they sound. If they where not so damn ugly , I might consider buying a pair. One thing I would not use Maggies for is HT. I don't find them able to play loud enough or dynamic enough. I always feel like something is going to come apart. They make a center channel and surrounds as I feel they have to with the push of HT over the last few Decades. Still not the game I want to play when using any of the Maggies. We carry the entire line and I have had my share of many Installs and in store demo's. Wonderful speakers but I'm no fan of Heavy metal or any kind of rock music on them. Some classic rock and bands like YES sound damn good but I always feel they just lack that last word in dynamic range. When we powered the 3.7's with a Bryston 4ST , I felt they had something . Yes you had to drive the living hell out of them to get to a point of recreating concert level sound. But they seem to let go and loosen up to much and seem to lose there grace.

In a room of the size you listed , I'm thinking something else. You might want to check out Revel F 208's. We have a pair in our theater room witht he matching center channel running a Onkyo Preamp and B&K 7 channel reference amp. I gotta tell you I'm in the opinion they are the best speaker we had in the store in years. They are remarkable in both theater and 2 channel. So damn good I would own them myself and have thought of taking a pair home. They are a cross between a pair of high end JBL's , Old school sound , Todays Dynaudio type clarity and detail with a wonderful low end that will impress even the biggest bass head. The magic is when the play full range. you get such natural sounding bass , natural sounding sound stage and Imaging you can cut with a knife.
Remarkable is a word that is an understatement. I don't know if they are in your price range as the retail around $5500.00. But I'll say this , you probably will never need another speaker for what you said you want them to do. Another thing I love about them is how easy they are to listen to. I don't care what you play on them , they do everything right. They have this ability to grab you and hold you in there arms , rock you to sleep or party all night.
I just realized talking to you about them how deeply I love these speakers. Yeah I have listened and walked away really liking them but just right now I found out I have a bit of a passion for them. Thanks man.

unc2701

Actually, I don't think the problem is the room leaking bass- this could be a standing wave problem and you just happen to be in the null. Get a SPL meter and a test tone in the 40hz range, and move around the room. You could easily have 20db-40db swings- if you see that, then there's two solutions:
1)More bass, more places. Double up the subs and move them around the room until you get more uniform response. Your space also sounds ideal for an IB subwoofer set up.
2)The 3 foot space could be perfect for a bass trap. Cut out the dry wall there, put in a layer of OC 703 where the drywall was, cover with burlap, fill the space behind with blown insulation. You don't want to overdo it- so go one or two 16" stud spaces at a time until you get the nulls ironed out. This is a pain in the **** and difficult to undo, but it's the right way to do a bass trap. You can get a little improvement with with a well placed gobo, but to truly trap bass in the regions you're probably concerned with really takes about 3 ft of depth for the bass trap.

Now- if you don't get the peaks and nulls on the SPL, then you can think about doing the Closed-Form Foam Insulation, but I'd be willing to bet it's a standing wave problem, not a leaky room problem.

SolidSqual

I actually considered this and did some small testing early on. I will do as you say and see if I am sitting in a null.

Regards,

Mike

unc2701 wrote: »

Actually, I don't think the problem is the room leaking bass- this could be a standing wave problem and you just happen to be in the null. Get a SPL meter and a test tone in the 40hz range, and move around the room. You could easily have 20db-40db swings- if you see that, then there's two solutions:
1)More bass, more places. Double up the subs and move them around the room until you get more uniform response. Your space also sounds ideal for an IB subwoofer set up.
2)The 3 foot space could be perfect for a bass trap. Cut out the dry wall there, put in a layer of OC 703 where the drywall was, cover with burlap, fill the space behind with blown insulation. You don't want to overdo it- so go one or two 16" stud spaces at a time until you get the nulls ironed out. This is a pain in the **** and difficult to undo, but it's the right way to do a bass trap. You can get a little improvement with with a well placed gobo, but to truly trap bass in the regions you're probably concerned with really takes about 3 ft of depth for the bass trap.

Now- if you don't get the peaks and nulls on the SPL, then you can think about doing the Closed-Form Foam Insulation, but I'd be willing to bet it's a standing wave problem, not a leaky room problem.

Loud & Clear

Not to hijack, but Mantis really got me interested in the Revel 208s. Did some reading and it sounds like a real contender in the 5k price range.

brianle

The usher dancer mini 2 should be another contender in 5k range too

cnh

This is pretty much a Maggie crowd here and I thought Gallo was a winery?

Everyone knows that planar-magnetic speakers are "fast"! So that's a lot of what makes this sound so real to so many. Is it the be all and end all? Probably not. But they're good for certain set ups as John and Dan describe above.

Gallos look so weird. And, honestly, though I've seen and stood next to some. I never got a chance to hear them.

cnh

SolidSqual

The size and appearance of the Gallos does not convey how exceptional that little Tweeter and midrange woofer assembly actually is. They make beautiful music.

That said, got my ears on some local Maggies. Heard the 1.7s and 3.7s. Great sound, but not for me. I think their construction leaves something to be desired.

Now, back to Mantis's comments, I just bought a new pair of piano black Revel Performa3 F208s from Dennis Deacon at D-sonic to go along with my monos he made. Unfortunately, there's a wait time of about three weeks. I know I'm buying these's speakers unheard but it's not the first time. I've always wanted to own a Revel speaker and these ones come packed with major R&D. I'm pretty pumped. Plus, Dennis voices his amps with Revel speakers so I know they will pair well.

As for the room, I haven't had a chance to check out the room nulls. I will this weekend hopefully.

Thanks,

Mike

cnh wrote: »

This is pretty much a Maggie crowd here and I thought Gallo was a winery?

Everyone knows that planar-magnetic speakers are "fast"! So that's a lot of what makes this sound so real to so many. Is it the be all and end all? Probably not. But they're good for certain set ups as John and Dan describe above.

Gallos look so weird. And, honestly, though I've seen and stood next to some. I never got a chance to hear them.

cnh

unc2701

SolidSqual wrote: »

The size and appearance of the Gallos does not convey how exceptional that little Tweeter and midrange woofer assembly actually is. They make beautiful music.

That's what you get with no cross over. And you'll never blow the tweeter!

One last thing to consider if it does wind up being a standing wave, would be OB style speakers- they can be a lot better for breaking up standing waves and really take the room out of the equation.

hoosier21

I have to listen down in my basement, concrete floors suck the lifeout of bass, you get zero tactile feedback through the floor, and that makes the bass seem even weaker. If you remember my DIY subwoofers, 2 columns of (4) 12 inch drivers solved my issue, was it overbuilt or overkill? not sure but I built them to be sure I did not "come close" to what I wanted.

Not to scare you, but 1 sub may fall short of your needs.

Is building a floor an option? something that will transfer the tactile energy?

Be sure to listen to both the 1.7 and 3.7, if your looking for magic, the 1.7 have it, the 3.7 have MORE OF IT

hoosier21

unc2701 wrote: »

ob style speakers- they can be a lot better for breaking up standing waves and really take the room out of the equation.

ditto

hoosier21

did a little reading, the Seaton Sound Submersive HP lok like a great sub