Local Custom Speakers

zingo

I have been chatting with a local audio DIY enthusiast about a pair of speakers he built. They are full range towers with Usher and FounTek drivers, and my goal is to go listen to them by this weekend. I just wanted to get feedback from one of our seasoned speaker builders to see if these are worth my time. Based on our emails back and forth, they do seem well designed with quality parts, and I'll have to let my ears make the decision as always. He says they sound better than most speakers up to $10K, but I realize that everyone is biased. :cheesygrin:

I built this pair of speakers a year ago using 4x 7" 8945P Usher woofers, 2x 9950 Usher dome tweeters, and 2x FounTek ribbon tweeters. The crossover components are high end caps and coils, along with the binding posts and plates. The speaker cabinet are 1.5" MDF with solid hardwood.

I wanted to have the high frequency response up to 45k hz of ribbon which is very nice and airy; 3D like. The ribbon is crossed from 7k hz up but is very limited in the vertical dispersion. This is where the dome tweeter covers, also allowing me to cross much lower to the 7" mid bass at 1600 hz to avoid beaming effect. The bottom woofer is crossed from 400 hz down with a rear ported design tuning at around 50hz at f3. The 7" Usher 8945P is my preference even over the popular Scanspeaks, as it has very low harmonic distortion.

Any thoughts?

drumminman

The one on the right appears to be leaning.

It sounds like he used quality components, but of course the proof is in the listening. I wonder what brand caps, resistors and coils he used? Would be fun to take a peak inside if they sound good to you. What's the nominal impedance?

How much does he want for them?

zingo

I noticed the leaning too, but can't tell if that's the picture, carpet, etc or the speaker until I get my eyes on them. The integrated plinth bases look very nice, and would be a great platform for spikes if they don't have them already. When I get to demo them, I'll pick his brain a little more on the crossovers and impedance, but as long as they sound good, I'm not too worried about a few of the details.

Price is being negotiated, but will be less than over all component cost knowing the nature of DIY.

ZLTFUL

Solid choices for the drivers.
Aesthetically, I like them although I would have gone a smoother satin black finish.

I too would be very interested to know what crossover components he used.
They could be the best drivers and cabinets in the world but if they end up being Dayton caps/inductors/resistors, I would lose some excitement. Hehe.

zingo

The design does look like it has good potential and with some good forethought.

zingo

Just got off the phone with the seller and we are tentatively looking at Saturday for a demo. It would only be with a Harman Kardon receiver for power, but at least it would give me an idea of what they may sound like. He said that most people should not need a subwoofer with them depending on room size for music listening, but some people are also bass heads.

They are a 3.5 way design, with the top and bottom pieces stained hard wood, and the double 3/4" MDF cabinets an industrial textured finish. He admitted that their original finish was a black gloss, but he couldn't get it perfect, so changed them to something very durable, but less HiFi looking.

ZLTFUL

zingo wrote: »

They are a 3.5 way design, with the top and bottom pieces stained hard wood, and the double 3/4" MDF cabinets an industrial textured finish. He admitted that their original finish was a black gloss, but he couldn't get it perfect, so changed them to something very durable, but less HiFi looking.

That's exactly why I went with a speckled stone like finish on the faces of the Klipsch speakers I refurbed. I couldn't get the front face as nice as the sides and top so I went that route.

zingo

Seller mentioned they like lots of power, so I'll have to find an appropriate amp other than the 50wpc H/K reciever if the deal goes through; albiet high current. I'm guessing those four drivers and 3.5 way crossovers soak up a bit of energy. I'm still interested in what those crossover components are, but I'll asking him tonight when we're finalizing the time. He said the hardware alone was $1400 which sounds about right.

zingo

Confirmed that I'll be demoing the speakers Saturday morning. I also got answers for a number of outstanding questions:

-Nominal impedance is 4 ohm.
-The speaker only looks like it's leaning to right in the picture. The speakers currently don't have any spikes under the solid wood plinth, but a set of brass chrome spikes will be included if I want to install them.
-The crossover components are mostly ClarityCaps, but Solen caps for the low pass; inductors are large air-core, but he didn't remember what brand without cracking them open.

Sounds like a winner from the details, now I'll just leave it up to my ears for the final decision.

zingo

The seller had a better offer and sold the speakers, which is a bummer, but I can't blame him. However, since he's a speaker builder who's clearing out his stash, he has another pair which I still may demo tomorrow, and he'll send me pics tonight:

I have a pair 3 way design which the drivers are dual 8" woofers, 7" midrange and 1.25" soft dome tweeters. The drivers are all Dayton Reference, one of my favorite. I think they soundbetter than Seas Signature series, aluminum and magnesium cone design. The cabinet is a very solid 1.5" MDF with hardwood on the sides. These speakers are the heaviest pair I've made, and one of the hardest to build with lots of curves and angles; black texture paint. Crossovers are high quality components just like other pairs. I think this pair sounds better in some ways than the Usher based pair, but obviously different as it does not have a ribbon tweeter. They sound better than some very expensive B&W speakers I've heard, and I actually took them to Magnolia one day for a demo and to compare them with their staff.

Face

The Dayton reference series is nice, but better than SEAS Excel, I think not. If you like an airy top end, that tweeter may not be for you. Plus, there's no such thing as a SEAS Signature Series.

zingo

I agree he may a few details confused, or maybe he was in a hurry as it was a smartphone email... Either way, he clearly has experience and some expertise building speakers, and it's worth giving them a listen as it sounds fairly well designed. A few more notes and clarification from a recent email:

These have tight, quick bass with the sealed design and dual woofers. The Dayton Reference woofers are faster but not as efficient as the Ushers. The Dayton Audio RS28A-4 dome tweeters on these are very smooth, and flat, much better than most aluminum domes I've heard including B&W. If you can feed these with 200 wpc or higher, they will really sing.

Face

I'm very familiar with all of those drivers. The RS28 is easy to work with and can be crossed low. FYI, it's very similar in architecture to Usher's 28mm dome.

As far as the B&W comparisons, yeah B&W's generally measure poorly(and sound it, IMO).

zingo

I've heard there is not much better for the money than the Dayton Reference drivers, and they do look very nice as well.

ZLTFUL

I was looking at the Dayton Reference stuff for my DIY project and you are right...they are hard to beat for the money.

Face

zingo wrote: »

I've heard there is not much better for the money than the Dayton Reference drivers, and they do look very nice as well.

For the money, you're correct. But saying that they're better than SEAS Excel drivers, nope!

zingo

Nice looking speakers and the second woofer is on the back. Demoing them tomorrow morning.

VR3

Those are nice! The top looks odd though, I wonder if it just photographs strange

zingo

I think it's the picture...

zingo

VR3

Yeah that looks normal - the first pic looked like it was tapered to the back...

Very cool

txcoastal1

Good luck with the demo

Came across these DIY Tannoy copies and thought of you Zingo with your old corner speakers

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649057741-tannoy_autograph/

zingo

Thanks and those Tannoy clones look killer too. I'm excited to see how they look in person, and obviously hear with my favorite recorded material. An update in a few short hours...

zingo

Pulled the trigger and will be playing with these speakers for a while! They sound very natural, fast, and punchy, but don't good too deep due too the sealed cabinet. The drivers are time aligned, the mids and woofers are in separate enclosures, and rear woofer is in phase with the front; which I might switch to see how it sounds. I'm sure I'll have the speakers cracked open by the end of the day to see the ClarityCaps and 14AWG inductors.

Detail is excellent, sound is balanced, and imaging is decent right now, but I don't think they're well placed currently. I'll have to tweak their placement to get them tuned right. The 50wpc receiver, although high current, is also not helping the sound quality and bass output I know these are capable of. These Dayton Reference drivers are very nice, especially the aluminum dome tweeters.

blairfrischx

I agree - out of phase would seem to make more sense for two woofers on opposite faces of the same enclosure.

zingo

The two 8" woofers are in a sealed chamber, and the 7" mid is in its own chamber. I agree the two woofers should probably be out of phase which may help bass output.

Based on the driver and cabinet designs, I feel like I would have to spend A LOT of money to get something better with the same design goals.

Face

Wiring them in phase will cut down on cabinet resonances and distortion.

Crossed low enough, I don't see there being an issue at all.

nooshinjohn

They look nice suspended from the carpeted ceiling. how hard was it to hang all your gar like that?:cheesygrin:

Seriously Zingo... nice looking system.

zingo

After opening them up, crossovers are decent with Jantzen and Dayton parts, and separate boads for the woofers, and the mid/tweeter. All connections are soldered, including drivers with large gauge speaker cables, but the crossover layout needs a little cleaning up which he admitted. Cabinets are very well made with stained hardwood side panels, and the woofer and mid chambers are packed tight with acoustic stuffing.

I've started some reading on loading that back woofer push-push vs push-pull compared to the front one, but having come to a conclusion yet...

blairfrischx

zingo wrote: »

After opening them up, crossovers are decent with Jantzen and Dayton parts, and separate boads for the woofers, and the mid/tweeter. All connections are soldered, including drivers with large gauge speaker cables, but the crossover layout needs a little cleaning up which he admitted. Cabinets are very well made with stained hardwood side panels, and the woofer and mid chambers are packed tight with acoustic stuffing.

I've started some reading on loading that back woofer push-push vs push-pull compared to the front one, but having come to a conclusion yet...

If they aren't very difficult to open and work in, just try both! :cheesygrin:

Face

Some info on bipole bass: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/168073-controlled-pattern-offset-bipole-revealed.html