Emo bi-amp question for LSiMs

eclypse

Looking at another post about bi-amping I have a question..

I have a Denon 3313CI 7 channel receiver and thought about grabbing a UPA-500 that's 80 WATTs a channel and I could use it to bi-amp between the receiver and the Emo.. So I would end up with 80 watts to a set of posts and like 100 watts from the receiver to the other set of posts per channel.. So ruffly 180-200 watts per speaker that way "Cheap"

Or I could just bi-amp the front 3 channels (LSiM705s and 706c) with the UPA-700 for 160 watts per channel for the fronts and let the receiver power the surrounds (LSiM703s) at 125 watts each?

Or would it be best to just grab a XPA-5 and be done with it? That one will take awhile before I could afford it.. or a XPA-3.

Any idea what the wattage per channel i'm getting off my Denon 3313CI using 5 or 7 channels?

Dawgfish

Grab an XPA-3, 5, or similiar multichannel amp and be done with it. Use the AVR to power the sorrounds and/or rear sorrounds (depending on wether you go 3 or 5 channel amp). As a fellow LSiM owner I would tend to favor an amp that is more on the warmer side of things such as B&K if you use your setup for music also. If mostly for HT, the Emotivas will work just fine. I use to own the XPA-3 and it was a good HT amp.

nwohlford

Agreed. Skip the biamping. Just get a decent 3 to 5 channel amp. You will be fine running of the avr for now.

eclypse

Well I have never tried a separate amp prior so no experience with sound differences between brands.. Emotiva was a nice choice since its cheap and new with a 5 year warranty. Not much risk but no good if it will make music sound bright.

Dawgfish

Yeah if you don't like bright sound there are other brands out there that have warmer sound. Personally I think Emotivas pair well with the older LSi series since they had a warmer overall tone than the LSiMs. The LSiMs are a better match with B&Ks, Parasounds, Sunfires, and other warmer sounding amps. For the record I'm not Emotiva bashing, there are a lot of other amps that I think wouldn't make an ideal match with the LSiMs. I'm just saying IMHO they sound better with warmer sounding amps. Ymmv.

eclypse

No worries.. I've done enough reading on the topic to know theres sound differences from different brand amps and some are brighter or warmer then others. Not the first time I've heard someone say don't use Emotiva amps with LSiM speakers.

cfrizz

Just keep in mind that what everyone else hears might NOT be what you hear. Until you hear it in your own space with your own ears, it's just useless speculation.

Everyone always tells those of us that have the RTA, SDA, ect speakers to switch out the tweeters for the new version. But I have never had a problem with the sound of the original, so I see no reason for me to change it out.

eclypse

Gotcha.. Could grab one and if it don't sound right could resell it with not much loss if not just return it.

cfrizz

eclypse wrote: »

Gotcha.. Could grab one and if it don't sound right could resell it with not much loss if not just return it.

Yup.

F1nut

But I have never had a problem with the sound of the original, so I see no reason for me to change it out.

Maybe take your own advice.

Until you hear it in your own space with your own ears, it's just useless speculation.

Just saying. :cheesygrin:

Seriously, you won't know how bad the SL2000 is until you upgrade to the RD0194-1.

F1nut

eclypse wrote: »

Gotcha.. Could grab one and if it don't sound right could resell it with not much loss if not just return it.

Or better yet, get an amp that most everyone knows will mate better. The LSiM's are not entry level speakers and deserve a better sounding amp to bring out their best.

eclypse

Well so far only one person came on here and mention different amps.. My eyes are open to people that own the LSiM line and what they use for amps.

jumpindick

Dawgfish wrote: »

Grab an XPA-3, 5, or similiar multichannel amp and be done with it. Use the AVR to power the sorrounds and/or rear sorrounds (depending on wether you go 3 or 5 channel amp). As a fellow LSiM owner I would tend to favor an amp that is more on the warmer side of things such as B&K if you use your setup for music also. If mostly for HT, the Emotivas will work just fine. I use to own the XPA-3 and it was a good HT amp.

+1...

F1nut

eclypse wrote: »

Well so far only one person came on here and mention different amps.. My eyes are open to people that own the LSiM line and what they use for amps.

Musical Fidelity, Manley, Parasound, Bel Canto and Audio Research all work well with the LSiM's.

eclypse

Ok lets make it easier.. How about in the $1000 range? If more then that i'll most likely have to wait till next years tax return.

PSOVLSK

I had good results with a Carver TFM-55 paired with a NAD pre-. Currently using a Peachtree Nova.

cfrizz

F1nut wrote: »

Maybe take your own advice.



Just saying. :cheesygrin:

Seriously, you won't know how bad the SL2000 is until you upgrade to the RD0194-1.

Jesse I have had my speakers with the orig tweeter for 22-23 years I had them way before I came to this forum. I know what sounds good to me and I know what sounds bad. If they had sounded bad they never would have come home with me. Now if one of the tweeters goes bad on me, then maybe I might try out the RD0194-1, but more likely I would simply get new speakers since these don't owe me anything.

I'm not going to switch something out just because someone else says that it should be done, especially since I don't have any problems with it. It's called thinking for myself and doing my own thing.

Dawgfish

You know I thought long and hard before making the comment about the LSiMs sounding better with warmer sounding amps. I did not want to turn this thread into another Emo argument either for and against and thought about how the OP may or may not like the sound. There are so many variables to this that effect sound that have been covered many times that I'm not going to waste more bandwidth bringing back up now.

After thinking long and hard, I decided to make the recommendation to go with a warmer sounding amp. Why? Because the OP made the statement about budget being a concern(as it is with all of us) and later stating that they would not like a brighter sounding system. It's been my experience that Emotiva's do have a brighter overall tone. If it was slightly on the bright side than I would have held back, but the XPA-3 I owned was definitely more than just a little bright. This is not necesarily a good or bad thing, it is what it is. For HT applications I found the brightness actually added to the experience with effects and such. For music it was very fatiging and grating however.

Granted the OP may not find the sound to be as bright or grating as I did. I realize this and you are right that it's good to let people find their own way through their audio journey. Having said that giving the not so subtle nature of the Emos brightness and the fact that the OP does not have a large budget to spend on this I thought that I should inform the OP that the Emotiva amps can sound bright for music. Again I realize that there is a possibility that the OP may not find this to be the case, but there is an even greater possibility that they would (based on actual experience with said amp). That's why I recommended looking at something that has a warmer character. Sure the OP could buy the Emotiva, spend some time with said amp, and if they didn't find it to be to their liking return or sell it. There are always hidding costs involved in such ventures (shipping, fees to place on the Gon, Craigslist, etc) not to mention the time and effort it takes to do so. Also if the OP were to buy the amp used, there is no guarantee that they could recoup all of the cost they originally purchased it for or even sell it at all (of course this could be said for any brand of amp). I was just saying that if brightness was an issue, the OP may be better off looking at a warmer sounding amp from the get go and save some time, effort, and possibly cash. I was not trying to advance any agenda or start any arguments. I honestly just wanted to help the OP out.

eclypse

And thanks Dawgfish for your comments as that's what I asked for from people that had experience with the setup.

Now quick question.. seems most amps I see on ebay are just 2 channel. Would'nt be too bad to just grab a 2 channel as its cheaper and see if I like the sound of it first and add another or what not to run the front 3 channels atleast. Now with that said would it be a problem power wise to run 2 amps and a receiver off one 15amp outlet? No idea off the top of my head all that's on the same circuit.

Also what about a power conditioner? I have a new one now and should one run that amp off of that or straight to the wall?

eclypse

Also I see plenty of older Carver 2 channel amps out there.. would those sound ok as well?

Basicly so far found a bunch of B&K, parasound and carver amps.

kuntasensei

As a current owner of a XPA-3, I'd say Dawgfish isn't steering you in the wrong direction on this. From what I understand of the LSiM line, it would be better complemented by a warmer sounding amp.

I was on the flip side of that with my speakers, as I tried both Parasound and Adcom before the XPA-3 and ended up liking the XPA-3 more than either of them. However, my speakers have the older silk dome tweeters, which work nicely with a more neutral amp. Also, I'm using Audyssey MultEQ XT, which tames the highs to my liking... and since I'm about 60% movies, 40% music, that works out well for me. I'm also not a 2-channel purist, and tend to listen to music in DPL-IIx Music DSX.

Now, all of that said, a cautionary tale: The two Parasounds (HCA-1206 and HCA-2003) and the Adcom (GFA-5503) that I mentioned are now taking up space in my closet... because I tried to buy used and ended up with amps that have issues. So after some expense trying to buy used higher-end amps, I ended up with the XPA-3 anyway... and a closet full of nice amps that I apparently can't get repaired by anyone near me. The HCA-2003 supposedly just needs output relays (about $45 worth of parts)... but I am technically inept when it comes to soldering and can't find anyone local that wants to mess with them. Not saying that you'll end up in the same boat if you try to buy used... but if you DO go the used route, I recommend that you allow for potential repairs in your budget. Otherwise, you could end up with $1,300 worth of very nice amps that would be amazing if any of them worked consistently (and the 2003 and the 5503 both sound pretty sweet when they work). As Dawg was saying, I can't even recoup my costs on these three amps... because I couldn't even sell them for half what I paid in their current state.

Here's my thought: If an XPA-3 is within your current budget, give it a shot. You can always return it if it doesn't suit you, and if it does, then party on. But keep in mind that you're also going to want to spend a little on interconnects and quality cabling to get the most out of it, so figure that into your budget. I was on a budget as well, and I highly recommend Blue Jeans Cables. I got their LC-1 interconnects to the lengths I needed (plus 6 6ft ICs that are taking up space in the closet with the amps) and got some very nice 10ga cables with locking banana plugs for my front 3 speakers, and I couldn't be happier.

kuntasensei

eclypse wrote: »

Now with that said would it be a problem power wise to run 2 amps and a receiver off one 15amp outlet? No idea off the top of my head all that's on the same circuit.

Also what about a power conditioner? I have a new one now and should one run that amp off of that or straight to the wall?

I'm running the XPA-3, a Crown XLS-1500 (for my SVS passive sub and Buttkicker LFE), and an Onkyo TX-NR1007 off the same 15A outlet with no issues. Even when I was also running the Parasound HCA-1206 for my other 6 channels, my power center never showed me hitting close to a current draw that would stress that circuit.

F1nut

cfrizz wrote: »

I'm not going to switch something out just because someone else says that it should be done, especially since I don't have any problems with it. It's called thinking for myself and doing my own thing.

I'd call it something else. Anyway, you seriously don't know what you are missing. Still have the original crossover parts too? If so, I'll do the labor for free, you pay for the rest. If you're not thrilled with the improvement, I'll reimburse you for the parts.

F1nut

kuntasensei wrote: »

I'm running the XPA-3, a Crown XLS-1500 (for my SVS passive sub and Buttkicker LFE), and an Onkyo TX-NR1007 off the same 15A outlet with no issues. Even when I was also running the Parasound HCA-1206 for my other 6 channels, my power center never showed me hitting close to a current draw that would stress that circuit.

Until you run it on a 20 amp dedicated circuit, you won't know what you've been missing.

eclypse

Thanks for the insight kuntasensei!

Yup, will have to get some new cables no doubt for whatever I end up getting. Nothing but the best for my new love! haha.. well within some kind of budget.

eclypse

Ya know the saying "ignorance is bliss"? I'm sure if I tried out a Emotiva amp I may just be happy since I don't have prior experience with anything else so my ears wont know. haha. Could be a good starter amp.

kuntasensei

F1nut wrote: »

Until you run it on a 20 amp dedicated circuit, you won't know what you've been missing.

I don't doubt you... but what would the advantage be if I'm already not stressing that circuit? My AV gear is the only thing on that circuit as it is, so it is essentially "dedicated". Just curious what a 20 amp circuit would do when I'm not peaking above 11.5 amps at ridiculous levels.

eclypse

I got a response from KeithL at emotiva's forums..

I would like to interject here that Emotiva's amplifiers are NOT "bright" - they are simply flat (accurate). We do our best to design our amps to NOT alter the sound in any way - and we succeed quite well. I wanted to clarify that; we don't expect you to use our amplifier as a tone control to change the way your speakers sound; with our amps, you will be hearing what your source material and your speakers really sound like. Our amps will NOT make anything brighter, but they will FAIL to make anything less bright by rolling off the high end - because that's not what we do.

ZLTFUL

eclypse wrote: »

I got a response from KeithL at emotiva's forums..

Having owned 3 Emotiva amps now, I will respectfully disagree with KeithL.

The UPA-2 and UPA-5 I used in my HT system were definitely brighter than other amps I have or have had. So much so that while HT listening was fine, even my far from audiophile wife took notice stating that "It's harder to listen to music on the stereo downstairs."

I also have an XPA-200 that I got for a song that I listened to for about 6 hours before putting it in the closet. Same reasoning on my 2 channel system.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed them with my HT setup for watching movies. But definitely not for listening to music.

Please bear in mind that Kuntasensei also had some extremely bad luck. He purchased used amps and had failures/issues.
His is the exception and not necessarily the rule.

I have purchased 3 Adcom GFA-555s, totalling an investment of less than $1000 shipped and have had nothing but praise for them.

I am currently running the 3 of them across my LSis and am enjoying them greatly. So much so, I will eventually be tracking down 2 more for a total of 5 to run my HT once we have built our house.

There have been some solid suggestions in this thread. And while Emo is a good entry into the world of separates, you should always "put your ears on it" before making any final decisions.

cstmar01

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Having owned 3 Emotiva amps now, I will respectfully disagree with KeithL.

The UPA-2 and UPA-5 I used in my HT system were definitely brighter than other amps I have or have had. So much so that while HT listening was fine, even my far from audiophile wife took notice stating that "It's harder to listen to music on the stereo downstairs."

I also have an XPA-200 that I got for a song that I listened to for about 6 hours before putting it in the closet. Same reasoning on my 2 channel system.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed them with my HT setup for watching movies. But definitely not for listening to music.

Please bear in mind that Kuntasensei also had some extremely bad luck. He purchased used amps and had failures/issues.
His is the exception and not necessarily the rule.

I have purchased 3 Adcom GFA-555s, totalling an investment of less than $1000 shipped and have had nothing but praise for them.

I am currently running the 3 of them across my LSis and am enjoying them greatly. So much so, I will eventually be tracking down 2 more for a total of 5 to run my HT once we have built our house.

There have been some solid suggestions in this thread. And while Emo is a good entry into the world of separates, you should always "put your ears on it" before making any final decisions.

agreed. I owned several of their amps and found all of them to have a bright sound signature no matter what speaker I was placing it on.

I also have owned a lot of used amps etc and never had issues with them before. Parasound, Adcom etc were all included in that mix. Emo is good for HT IMO but if doing a lot of music I would prefer something different.

eclypse

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Having owned 3 Emotiva amps now, I will respectfully disagree with KeithL.

The UPA-2 and UPA-5 I used in my HT system were definitely brighter than other amps I have or have had. So much so that while HT listening was fine, even my far from audiophile wife took notice stating that "It's harder to listen to music on the stereo downstairs."

I also have an XPA-200 that I got for a song that I listened to for about 6 hours before putting it in the closet. Same reasoning on my 2 channel system.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed them with my HT setup for watching movies. But definitely not for listening to music.

Please bear in mind that Kuntasensei also had some extremely bad luck. He purchased used amps and had failures/issues.
His is the exception and not necessarily the rule.

I have purchased 3 Adcom GFA-555s, totalling an investment of less than $1000 shipped and have had nothing but praise for them.

I am currently running the 3 of them across my LSis and am enjoying them greatly. So much so, I will eventually be tracking down 2 more for a total of 5 to run my HT once we have built our house.

There have been some solid suggestions in this thread. And while Emo is a good entry into the world of separates, you should always "put your ears on it" before making any final decisions.

Thanks.. that amp is now at the top of the list since its such a low cost. Ton of them on ebay and 2 would be great for now.