I really miss tubes !!!!!!! wahhhhhhh

polkfarmboy

I just bought a nice perfectwave dac and thought it was going to solve all my problems. I downloaded and listened to a bunch of music but I am not there yet even though I spent a fortune on the anthem amp and pre I was still more content with running just the sqeezebox touch with a cheapo yaqin mc10l

One thing that sucked a little about the yaqin was the rolled off highs but the bloated bass worked with my Vista fronts. I have read alot about cheaper tube amps etc and that the rolled off highs is not a specific tube attribute but rather the cheaper components used. I really miss the el34 tube sound but think I should hunt for something that has the kt88 tubes for my larger Vista's as they are slugs when it comes to getting alot of bass out them

I know many will say that the tube pre with solid state is a good combo but I think I would rather go the tube amplification route first. I can then use my perfectwave dac to function as the pre and a nice tube amp to keep the system strictly 2 channel. I can then focus my efforts more into 2 ch by swapping cables and upgrading power cords etc.

What are some good cheaply priced but not cheaply made tube amps out there that is worth a look or listen?

marvda1

try eh6ca7

Dawgfish

What's your budget? I running an Anthem Amp-1, a Rogue Eighty Eight Magnum, and a Primaluna Prologue 4 that are all considered moderate priced tube amps. I like them all, but I'm really, really impressed with the Primaluna running KT-88s or 6550s. They sound great with EL34s too, but I prefer the extra bass of the KT-88s especially Shuagang Treasures, Gold Lion resissues, NOS Tung SOl 6550s or NOS GE 6550s. The amount of bass this 35 wpc tube amp puts out is astounding. It's more like solid state bass, tight, well defined, and powerful. And then you get that wonderful tube midrange, sweet top-end, and wonderful tube soundstage. I'm running mine with Telefunken 12AX7 smoothplates and Amperex Holland 12AU7s and believe me there is no roll off in the top-end.

You can pick one up brand new from Upscale Audio right now for $979.00. Most of the time when they come around used they sell in the 700-800ish range. They are a bargain in my book. I would like to pick up a second one to biamp my system. Another thing I like about the Primalunas are they are self-biasing (as is the Rogue), you can run a very wide of power tubes with them for different tastes and moods, and the tube plate protection circuit they employ. When a tube goes out on a Primaluna, you change the tubes and the tube plate fuse. On a lot of other tube amps if a power tube goes out you often have to replace resistors and/or other components. It's a really sweet amp.

leroyjr1

I'd grab that Odyssey tube pre with HT bypass in the for sale section if I were you.

shadowlight

PFB where are you located? If you are in the NJ area you are welcome to borrow my Ming Da 3008ab-SE integrated. It weighs a ton and is a space heater with the 2 805 power tubes. The other tubes that it uses is 2 300b, 2 12ax7 and 2 12au7.

http://www.mei-xing.com/english/English/cp/1_3008-AB.html

EndersShadow

shadowlight wrote: »

PFB where are you located? If you are in the NJ area you are welcome to borrow my Ming Da 3008ab-SE integrated. It weighs a ton and is a space heater with the 2 805 power tubes. The other tubes that it uses is 2 300b, 2 12ax7 and 2 12au7.

http://www.mei-xing.com/english/English/cp/1_3008-AB.html

IIRC he's somewhere in Cali.....

shadowlight

EndersShadow wrote: »

IIRC he's somewhere in Cali.....

Thanks, to far to pick up

polkfarmboy

shadowlight wrote: »

Thanks, to far to pick up

Thanks even for offering and some great input here and very informative. I have been looking at that odyssey and reading up on it but would rather go the amp route for now

polkfarmboy

DSkip wrote: »

Were you using stock tubes in that Yaqin?

I was initially but started mixing it up with gold lions combo's of power and pre tubes but never got it to sparkle the electrostats on the top end like solid state, this mids on that yaqin was to die for though

brianle

Try a 2nd hand cayin a100t kt88 version

polkfarmboy

Dawgfish wrote: »

What's your budget? I running an Anthem Amp-1, a Rogue Eighty Eight Magnum, and a Primaluna Prologue 4 that are all considered moderate priced tube amps. I like them all, but I'm really, really impressed with the Primaluna running KT-88s or 6550s. They sound great with EL34s too, but I prefer the extra bass of the KT-88s especially Shuagang Treasures, Gold Lion resissues, NOS Tung SOl 6550s or NOS GE 6550s. The amount of bass this 35 wpc tube amp puts out is astounding. It's more like solid state bass, tight, well defined, and powerful. And then you get that wonderful tube midrange, sweet top-end, and wonderful tube soundstage. I'm running mine with Telefunken 12AX7 smoothplates and Amperex Holland 12AU7s and believe me there is no roll off in the top-end.

You can pick one up brand new from Upscale Audio right now for $979.00. Most of the time when they come around used they sell in the 700-800ish range. They are a bargain in my book. I would like to pick up a second one to biamp my system. Another thing I like about the Primalunas are they are self-biasing (as is the Rogue), you can run a very wide of power tubes with them for different tastes and moods, and the tube plate protection circuit they employ. When a tube goes out on a Primaluna, you change the tubes and the tube plate fuse. On a lot of other tube amps if a power tube goes out you often have to replace resistors and/or other components. It's a really sweet amp.

I am really intrigued about the primaluna brand after reading alot today. I really like the reviews on their monoblocks but my wife would kill me if was to plop down 2k after all the money I have been burning up lately

Dawgfish

I hear you. There's a Prologue 5 on the Gon right now (essentially the same as the 4 I have with KT-88s from the factory). You could probably pick it up for around $900ish. Might be a little easier to expalin to the wife. I am totally sold on the Primalunas. With other tube amps I've tried I've always wanted a little more/harder hitting bass. I don't have that complaint with the PL. It has solid state like bass slam with all of the other positives of tubes. Their extremely low maintanance compared to other tube amps is also a big plus. The bang for the buck ratio for the PLs is off the charts!

Tbone289

The MC10-L sounds great with SED "winged C" EL-34s and Voskhod 6N1P-EVs. The Voskhods are what brought the "sparkle", compared to the Genalex Gold Lions you were using. It's still not like SS on the top end, but sounds good with my tri-lams.

I'm glad you sold it! ;-)

steveinaz

If you're getting the feeling your running around in circles, start seriously assessing your speakers. The "right" speakers will sound good with just about anything. Took me years to figure this out (again). For some reason we all tend to be "married" to our speaker choice, then we jockey equipment around trying to find a perfect fit---when you really think about it, this is counter-productive. Sometimes we're not even aware that are speakers are not right for our listening preferences; we just assume it has to be something upstream.

Just my humble opinion.

zingo

Most of the tube equipment from Grant Fidelity is well made and reasonably priced; especially with their current clearance.

zombie boy 2000

steveinaz wrote: »

If you're getting the feeling your running around in circles, start seriously assessing your speakers. The "right" speakers will sound good with just about anything. Took me years to figure this out (again). For some reason we all tend to be "married" to our speaker choice, then we jockey equipment around trying to find a perfect fit---when you really think about it, this is counter-productive. Sometimes we're not even aware that are speakers are not right for our listening preferences; we just assume it has to be something upstream.

Just my humble opinion.

This is, quite possibly, one of the smartest posts put down on this Forum. As a wise-old Polkie of yesteryear once exclaimed - "no one likes their baby to be called ugly". And this can certainly be applied to speakers... as they are more often than not, considered the centerpiece of the majority of our systems. I have seen so many people try to justify their choice in speaks by throwing dollar after dollar in gear trying to chase a sound they "just know to be there waiting to be unlocked".

Except, sometimes, it's just not there. I once had to make this call myself with a pair of Tyler Acoustic Reference floorstanders. I bounced thru a lot of gear before I finally came to terms with the fact their sound was not particularly for me. I was just kind of blinded by the fact that they were the priciest (and arguably "prettiest") speakers I had owned up to that point.

polkfarmboy

steveinaz wrote: »

If you're getting the feeling your running around in circles, start seriously assessing your speakers. The "right" speakers will sound good with just about anything. Took me years to figure this out (again). For some reason we all tend to be "married" to our speaker choice, then we jockey equipment around trying to find a perfect fit---when you really think about it, this is counter-productive. Sometimes we're not even aware that are speakers are not right for our listening preferences; we just assume it has to be something upstream.

Just my humble opinion.

Well the thing about my speakers is that they are cursed with revealing flaws but they are also very sensitive to change. The electrostats can be so rewarding but everything has to be done right and you can really hear the difference with anything new introduced. The reason why I love tubes with my speakers as its night and day diff sounding and the panels really respond more than my other non stat speakers

My Anthem amp I have now is just fantastic on the Polks especially with the perfectwave dac but comes up short with my Vista for music although its perfect for HT. I want to just keep all the HT together as I can't get any better than the D2 pre and MCA 5 without dropping the crazy insane money for a little in return

What I have my heart set on now after getting a dac is a quality tube setup starting with some good tube amplification thats only for 2 ch. I don't want to spend loads of cash on exotic audio but I want something thats of quality construction and cheap in the sense that is value for money and hits that sweet spot of price vs performance. I know my speakers are power hungry so I am thinking monoblocks plus they look bad **** on a rack and you can have them close to the speakers for shorter cable runs

brianle

In that case, a pair of 2nd hand Rogue M-150 can be had for around $2500 :cheesygrin:

polkfarmboy

brianle wrote: »

In that case, a pair of 2nd hand Rogue M-150 can be had for around $2500 :cheesygrin:

I was looking into those but have been reading they sound a little hard

brianle

There is always tubes rolling or switch to triode mode to change the sound to your liking

Drenis

steveinaz wrote: »

If you're getting the feeling your running around in circles, start seriously assessing your speakers. The "right" speakers will sound good with just about anything. Took me years to figure this out (again). For some reason we all tend to be "married" to our speaker choice, then we jockey equipment around trying to find a perfect fit---when you really think about it, this is counter-productive. Sometimes we're not even aware that are speakers are not right for our listening preferences; we just assume it has to be something upstream.

Just my humble opinion.

Post of the year contention.

I'm 27 and dumping more into mods than I paid for my 20+ year old speakers because I LOVE the sound of them!

organ

I have returned to SS but I still keep my favorite tube amps. I've gone through a lot of them and have sold the others. The ones I'm keeping at the moment are EL34, EL84 and 300B.
The sound you describe in your first post is indeed the EL34 sound. They are rolled off at the extreme highs, bass is more loose and warm compared to some other tubes. They excel in the mids and highs. The EL34 is a warm sounding tube. Of course, quality of the amp and output transformers are more important, but in general, this is what I hear with EL34 based amps.
You did say you missed the EL34 sound, so if you go KT88, there is still a chance you're either going to like the new kind of sound more, or you won't.
If you roll a 6CA7 into an EL34 amp, the sound will be closer to KT88. 6CA7 are direct subs for EL34. The KT77 are also direct EL34 replacements. After the sound quality, the amount of EL34, 6CA7, KT77 tubes to roll in an EL34 amp is a big plus. They all sound distinctly different from one another.

If you're looking to try another tube type, you might wanna take a look at EL84. It's less power but more lively sounding than EL34. They have tighter bass and nice extended highs as well. But not the warmth of EL34.

If you want more power and control, the 6C33C is a great choice.

The reason I brought up the EL84 and 6C33C is that, to my ears, they do have a sound, that if you enjoy the EL34, you will enjoy those as well. Just MHO

I also agree with what Steve said. I switched back to SS after finding the speakers I like most so far.

nooshinjohn

You have a hard enough time with binding posts... I feel sorry for the poor. defenseless tubes.

organ

Drenis wrote: »

Post of the year contention.

I'm 27 and dumping more into mods than I paid for my 20+ year old speakers because I LOVE the sound of them!

Ha ha, that's awesome. Same here. Mine are very close to 40 years old and currently getting updated/restored. Estimated cost is already more than what I paid for them lol.

steveinaz

I completely understand the "love" of a vintage speaker; I suppose if you have the patience OR if you're lucky enough that your speakers have always sounded good with a variety of upstream equipment, then your good to go. I can certainly understand the love for the large SDA setups, especially if you're hooked on the vintage Polk "house" sound. The thing I have found interesting, is that I tend to have a long-term like for speakers that initially come off as somewhat un-spectacular. Be careful of a speaker that "grabs" you right away---it usually means that some element is being accentuated, unnaturally, at least in my experience.

mhardy6647

love of a vintage speaker, eh...?







nope, cannot identify with that at all...

zombie boy 2000

Dear Lord... Steve is hitting 'em out of the park in this thread. Any newbs might greatly benefit from bookmarking his previous two posts.

mhardy6647

There are certainly picky speakers and there are certainly speakers that do some things well and other things not.

The Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers (Heresy, Cornwall, LaScala, Bell and K-horn) and the Lowther fullrange drivers spring to mind.

Then there are speakers like the 1970s-1980s Braun and ads loudspeakers that can (to my ears, at any rate) do no wrong.

And then there are the picky ones that can do no wrong - Quad ESL-57s :-)

charley95

I'm pleased with my Rogue Cronus Magnum. Paid $2100 a few years back. I noticed that there is a Tempest III over on the gon. that looks real nice for $1800 which sold new for $3000.

polkfarmboy

charley95 wrote: »

I'm pleased with my Rogue Cronus Magnum. Paid $2100 a few years back. I noticed that there is a Tempest III over on the gon. that looks real nice for $1800 which sold new for $3000.

Thanks for that heads up charley, I went for a set of prima luna 6 monoblocks

steveinaz

zombie boy 2000 wrote: »

Dear Lord... Steve is hitting 'em out of the park in this thread. Any newbs might greatly benefit from bookmarking his previous two posts.

Thanks man. I've been going thru this merry-go-round for awhile, and couldn't figure out "why" it was so tuff to get decent sound; especially after owning some really modest stuff in the past that I thoroughly enjoyed. Once I got on the right course of keeping all my upstream stuff and trying different speakers--it hit me like a ton of bricks. One of the first things I learned in hi-fi years ago, "spend 80% of your budget on speakers" was nagging at me. I kept going cheap on speakers, expecting all my other more expensive components to make up the difference

---

it doesn't work.

^Having said all that, I'm not saying you have to spend alot of money on speakers---you just have to find the right speaker; and a sure indicator is when frustration sets in, when you know you have good upstream components. In other words----trust yourself and intuitions. Nothing changes tonal character more than speakers---except possibly (arguably) phono cartridges.