Vinyl wins!!!
nspindel
Posts: 5,343
I recently got back into vinyl after taking about 25 years off, and have built up a nice little collection so far (probably about 300 records now, give or take). I just upgraded my turntable and cartridge to a VPI Traveler with a Grado Sonata cartridge. My digital source is a Bolder-modded Logitech Squeezebox Touch feeding into the DAC of my Marantz SA-8004 SACD player. I use a Dared MC-7P with NOS tubes as my phono/pre, a Krell KAV-2250 amp, and my modded 4.1TL's, with Signal Cables all the way through the chain. My CD rips are all lossless, done with EAC in secure mode, with Accurate Rip.
I've got a friend in the office who doesn't hesitate to give me flac about my audio expenditures. But he especially gets on me about vinyl. He loves to make comments like "So do you go to the bathroom in an outhouse as well?" He's a purely digital kind of guy. I always brush him off by telling him that any time he'd like to come hear vinyl destroy cd sound, I'd be happy to demonstrate for him. Yesterday, we did just that. I live quite close to my office, so at lunch time we took a drive to my house and we did a little demo....
Before we even started, he had to make a wisecrack. I've got my turntable sitting on top of a 3.5" maple cutting board for vibration isolation. The wise-guy asked if this was an "audiophile" cutting board. Ha ha.....
First up, Fleetwood Mac Rumors. I have the original cd, the HDTracks 24-bit version, and then the 45RPM reissue vinyl. I played the cd first. We listened to Don't Stop and Songbird. It sounded very thin, totally unimpressive. The 24-bit was a huge improvement. But when the vinyl came on, my friend reluctantly admitted that there was just more to the sound of the vinyl. Reverb was more realistic. Bass was fuller with better punch. Cymbols extended to a slow fade much nicer than the digital versions. And Christie McVie's voice on Songbird... it can give you goosebumps. At this point he admitted that this one instance sounded better, but he needed more examples before he could admit defeat.
Second, we listened to Stiletto, on Billy Joel's 52nd Street. We started with the 24K gold Sony Mastersound version of the cd, and then the vintage vinyl, not the recent reissue. The cd version sounded very good, not suffering any of the thin-sound that we heard on the Fleetwood Mac cd. But when I played the vinyl, he again reluctantly admitted that the vinyl sounded better. Same as before - more full and realistic. Warmer. Deeper bass and better extension of the highs. It just sounded "richer" than the digital version.
Next up, China Cat Sunflower from the Grateful Dead Europe '72. Started out with the original cd, then the 180g vinyl reissue. Same observations about the differences. One comment that my friend made at this point was that he was hearing a lot of reverb in my system. I told him that this is because he's really hearing the reverb that's in the recording, my hi-fi isn't adding any artificial reverb. He was not convinced.
So I busted out the Foo Fighters Colour & The Shape on 180g vinyl, and we played the intro track and then Monkey Wrench. Monkey Wrench has some very tight stops and starts, so if my hi-fi was adding any reverb it would be noticeable in that track. There was nothing resembling reverb here. The music was tight, full of punch, and went from loud to black instantly, with no sound bleeding into the quiet break. He was starting to become very impressed.
Then we went in a completely opposite direction, and I put on Baby I'm A Fool, from the 180g vinyl version of Melody Gardot's My One And Only Thrill. Spectacular.
Finished up with Ah'w Baby/Everything Gonna Be Alright from the 180g vinyl version of Drinkin TNT Smokin Dynamite by Buddy Guy and Junior Wells. This album is outstanding, the sound quality is just fantastic. I was keen to play it for him because I'm seeing Buddy Guy live in a bit over a week from now. He loved it.
We finished up at that point since we had to get back to work. But he reluctantly admitted defeat, agreeing that the vinyl beat digital hands down in every comparison we did, including 24-bit. He knew the Foo Fighters track well, and it was as good as he'd ever heard it. He told me that I had definitely opened his eyes, not that he's racing off to build an audiophile hi-fi by any means.
I wish we had a bit more time, I would have done two comparisons versus SACD for him. I've got two albums on both SACD on vinyl, and I prefer the vinyl in both cases. The first is Eat A Peach by the Allman Brothers, where I've got the original gatefold Capricorn vinyl. The second is Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here, where I have the 180g vinyl reissue. The Pink Floyd is the better example, since the SACD and the vinyl reissue came out together, so presumably the source version is identical.
And that's without touching any classical music. To be honest, I've never loved listening to classical on my SDA's. I've always had a lot on cd, but always thought it sounded rather sterile on my SDA's. But then I inherited a bunch of vintage classical vinyl from my father, who was happy to give it to me since he doesn't play vinyl any more. I was blown away by how great it sounds through my SDA's compared to cd.
Plenty of people will disagree, I know that's coming, but in my little demo with my friend..... VINYL WINS!!!!!
I've got a friend in the office who doesn't hesitate to give me flac about my audio expenditures. But he especially gets on me about vinyl. He loves to make comments like "So do you go to the bathroom in an outhouse as well?" He's a purely digital kind of guy. I always brush him off by telling him that any time he'd like to come hear vinyl destroy cd sound, I'd be happy to demonstrate for him. Yesterday, we did just that. I live quite close to my office, so at lunch time we took a drive to my house and we did a little demo....
Before we even started, he had to make a wisecrack. I've got my turntable sitting on top of a 3.5" maple cutting board for vibration isolation. The wise-guy asked if this was an "audiophile" cutting board. Ha ha.....
First up, Fleetwood Mac Rumors. I have the original cd, the HDTracks 24-bit version, and then the 45RPM reissue vinyl. I played the cd first. We listened to Don't Stop and Songbird. It sounded very thin, totally unimpressive. The 24-bit was a huge improvement. But when the vinyl came on, my friend reluctantly admitted that there was just more to the sound of the vinyl. Reverb was more realistic. Bass was fuller with better punch. Cymbols extended to a slow fade much nicer than the digital versions. And Christie McVie's voice on Songbird... it can give you goosebumps. At this point he admitted that this one instance sounded better, but he needed more examples before he could admit defeat.
Second, we listened to Stiletto, on Billy Joel's 52nd Street. We started with the 24K gold Sony Mastersound version of the cd, and then the vintage vinyl, not the recent reissue. The cd version sounded very good, not suffering any of the thin-sound that we heard on the Fleetwood Mac cd. But when I played the vinyl, he again reluctantly admitted that the vinyl sounded better. Same as before - more full and realistic. Warmer. Deeper bass and better extension of the highs. It just sounded "richer" than the digital version.
Next up, China Cat Sunflower from the Grateful Dead Europe '72. Started out with the original cd, then the 180g vinyl reissue. Same observations about the differences. One comment that my friend made at this point was that he was hearing a lot of reverb in my system. I told him that this is because he's really hearing the reverb that's in the recording, my hi-fi isn't adding any artificial reverb. He was not convinced.
So I busted out the Foo Fighters Colour & The Shape on 180g vinyl, and we played the intro track and then Monkey Wrench. Monkey Wrench has some very tight stops and starts, so if my hi-fi was adding any reverb it would be noticeable in that track. There was nothing resembling reverb here. The music was tight, full of punch, and went from loud to black instantly, with no sound bleeding into the quiet break. He was starting to become very impressed.
Then we went in a completely opposite direction, and I put on Baby I'm A Fool, from the 180g vinyl version of Melody Gardot's My One And Only Thrill. Spectacular.
Finished up with Ah'w Baby/Everything Gonna Be Alright from the 180g vinyl version of Drinkin TNT Smokin Dynamite by Buddy Guy and Junior Wells. This album is outstanding, the sound quality is just fantastic. I was keen to play it for him because I'm seeing Buddy Guy live in a bit over a week from now. He loved it.
We finished up at that point since we had to get back to work. But he reluctantly admitted defeat, agreeing that the vinyl beat digital hands down in every comparison we did, including 24-bit. He knew the Foo Fighters track well, and it was as good as he'd ever heard it. He told me that I had definitely opened his eyes, not that he's racing off to build an audiophile hi-fi by any means.
I wish we had a bit more time, I would have done two comparisons versus SACD for him. I've got two albums on both SACD on vinyl, and I prefer the vinyl in both cases. The first is Eat A Peach by the Allman Brothers, where I've got the original gatefold Capricorn vinyl. The second is Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here, where I have the 180g vinyl reissue. The Pink Floyd is the better example, since the SACD and the vinyl reissue came out together, so presumably the source version is identical.
And that's without touching any classical music. To be honest, I've never loved listening to classical on my SDA's. I've always had a lot on cd, but always thought it sounded rather sterile on my SDA's. But then I inherited a bunch of vintage classical vinyl from my father, who was happy to give it to me since he doesn't play vinyl any more. I was blown away by how great it sounds through my SDA's compared to cd.
Plenty of people will disagree, I know that's coming, but in my little demo with my friend..... VINYL WINS!!!!!
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
Post edited by nspindel on
Comments
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I'm with you. I like vinyl the best also.
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How friggin long is lunch at your job?!?!
They hiring?Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
It all boils down to what each indiviual likes. This is why vinyl vs. digital debates turn into ugly brawls most of the time. Me, I have some vinyl that I like better than digital and vice versa.If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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Just did yhat this week, and i agree. Vinyl is much better.oh crap here comes the rabbit hole!Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
I also have some buddies who recently emailed me and asked, "What does L.P. mean anyway?" and then proceeded with a long thread of purportedly funny jokes. Then, when the signed Beatles album sold a few days ago for a few hundred thousand dollars, I sent a reply that said, "That's what L.P. means!"
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Then we went in a completely opposite direction, and I put on Baby I'm A Fool, from the 180g vinyl version of Melody Gardot's My One And Only Thrill. Spectacular.
Excellent choice. I bet that is spectacular in vinyl.
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Craigb]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
I've also migrated back into a vinyl front end, and am really enjoying myself. But, like any format, vinyl can be very "recording" dependent. The better the studio, engineers, and attention to detail, the better ANY format sounds.
I've got some very good vinyl examples, and I've got some "not so good" recordings, some equally good cd's, and some pure crap. I like them all, but I really enjoy a good analog playback:biggrin: -
How friggin long is lunch at your job?!?!
They hiring?
LOL! I was thinking the same thing!
And of course, I am in the vinyl camp as well.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
How friggin long is lunch at your job?!?!
They hiring?
Hahaha. Ww didn't play entire songs. I'd say we were in and out of my house in under an hour.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Vinyl is the champeen...
everybody has been conditioned to think digital sounds better, but it don't.
It can sound good... but vinyl can sound great...
SACD sounds great, but that is just separating the signal to more channels digitally... it wasn't recorded that way.
my vote has always been for vinyl.My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160
Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |
ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4
Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |
Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |
Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |
Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's
Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's | -
Vinyl is where the real music is stored.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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I find vinyl to have the edge a significant percentage of the time versus digital (SACD and redbook CD). That said, I have digital recordings that outshine my best vinyl recordings in every regard. There are good and bad examples of both. I wholeheartedly embrace both mediums.
Analog playback: Denon DP-59L / Audio-Technica AT33EV / Acoustic Zen Wow-II ICs; Digital playback: Marantz Reference SA11S2 / Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II ICs; ClassMain System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.
Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.
Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers. -
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My wife doesn't want me to get a turntable. I can't say I blame her one bit.TV: 65" Samsung QLED 4K
Fronts: Energy RC70 --- Center: Energy RC-LCR
Front Heights: Polk RC65i --- Rears: Polk RC85i --- Sub: Power Sound Audio XS15
Pioneer VSX-1120K --- Parasound HCA-1000A --- Oppo BDP-103
Vincent Audio SA31 preamp --- Teac UD301 DAC
AIYIMA Tube T7 preamp --- Nobsound 12AX7 tube preamplifier -
Just got an original release Led Zep Presence.
I have the original cd,a remastered cd and a Japanese cd to compare to tonite.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
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Just got an original release Led Zep Presence.
I have the original cd,a remastered cd and a Japanese cd to compare to tonite.
It won't even be a contest. Zeppelin original vinyl destroys the cd's.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Vinyl wins alright...you can't make a big enough bowl out of CD's. Here's a recipe to put them to good use. :razz:
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Bowls-out-of-Vinyl-Records"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Wonder how many people make those bowls out of good music.
Not that there isn't enough crappy music out there to use.
I got one as a christmas gift. It's a Kenny Rodgers album I think. Use it for a candy dish.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
It won't even be a contest. Zeppelin original vinyl destroys the cd's.
I expect it will.I only hunt minty original pressings and remasters from master tapes pretty much.I still don't think a digitally remastered source to vinyl is really the same.
but i must say the Floyd WYWH remastered vinyl from last year is pretty damn sweet.But the SACD kills it in quality.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
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It occurred to me recently (recently because I'm pretty slow) that digital formats have a finite amount of data, but vinyl has an infinite amount of data, in the same way that a line is made up of an infinite number of points. I do like my vinyl, but I have plenty of CDs that sound good. I have an inexpensive Stanton TT and the vinyl still sounds great. One day I hope to upgrade to something nicer.
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" Then, when the signed Beatles album sold a few days ago for a few hundred thousand dollars, I sent a reply that said, "That's what L.P. means!" so, LP means "loose purse"? "lotsa pennies"? I like the Beatles as well as the next guy but really.......some folks got money to burn I guess. Color me as an analog fan but I appreciate the convenience & clarity of discs. Both have a place.
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Enjoying Pete Townsend Empty Glass that I just bought from Mr. Grand. Sounds so good!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Vinyl is my sweet treat when I have the time...
I love my SACD's as well... -
There's nothing as pleasing (to me) as going thru the vinyl "ritual" to spin an album. Still amazes me that dragging a rock thru a groove can sound so good.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I came home last night to a nicely set living room and my wife drinking wine and spinning her favorite vinyl. It was a really nice moment knowing that all my efforts have paid off, and that she can enjoy my system all by herself. Vinyl experience has it's own ambiance, and there certainly is a difference between vinyl and other forms of prerecorded music. I like them all but to really immerse yourself vinyl is the way to go.Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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Only way that story gets better is if she was playing your Barry White albums waiting for you to arrive!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
