Problems with Dual Mono amp and 1000VA A-L AI-1
Comments
-
Double postPolk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
I was discussing the situation with my wife and we talked about some options: either sell the amp and get another, or sell the speakers. She was adamant that there's no way we're getting rid of the speakers !:cool::cheesygrin: She likes the way they look
[/QUOTE]
By the way..... where do you find a gal like that????
My Ex wanted to kill me every time I used to turn on my rig....Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
That is a fine woman. Sell the amp, get another Krell.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
Are you hooking the negative terminals on the Dreadnought to the negative terminals on the SDA??
I am doing that, and read somewhere on here that that was fine.
But that is my most suspicious connection in the system.
Yes, the neg terminal on the speakers connects to the neg terminal on the AI-1."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Ouch. FWIW, I use my Dreadnaught with a Krell KAV-2250, and it's perfect. I've had my 1000VA hooked up since we did the group buy, and I had an 800VA before that for at least a year.
Neil, if your still reading is your A-1a hooked up this way????Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
neither "positive" or negative" terminals are connected to ground or the amplifier chassis. (Note that no speaker switches or headphone adaptors, which often have joined channel grounds, may be used, as they will short the outputs.) The output terminals are electrically at 0V, but float above the chassis ground.
Interesting info. It would be nice to get a Polk engineer to chime in on this and hopefully shed some light on why the isolation transformer doesn't work with these amps.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
drumminman wrote: »At his suggestion last night I tied the negative speaker binding posts together (AI-1 out of the mix). On power up I got a howl from the speakers so I immediately shut everything down and removed the connecting wire. Also at his suggestion I tried connecting the SDA IC (again no AI-1). This didn't work either as I got a loud mid range to low end growl through the speakers.
This is the best indication that something is wrong with the amp's ground scheme. The howl you heard is only caused by the amp seeing a short condition.
If Klaus said the amp could have its negative terminals tied together, and you still experienced a short condition, this points to something being miswired in the amp.
If one channel is wired in reverse polarity, it would play fine with only one speaker connected to each channel, although you would have diminished bass, but you would get a short condition if the "negative" terminals were tied together because one "negative" terminal would actually be a positive. One channel being wired in reverse polarity would also prevent proper operation of the Dreadnought.
Try reversing speaker cable polarity at one speaker and then the other to see if you hear increased bass response. If you hear increased bass response with one speaker's polarity reversed, then that channel is miswired.
If you want to be adventurous, try strapping the negative of the correctly wired channel to the positive of the incorrectly wired channel and you should not get the howl. The Dreadnought should also work.
If you want to be safe, tell Klaus that you suspect that one channel's polarity is reversed and ask him how you can verify this.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »This is the best indication that something is wrong with the amp's ground scheme. The howl you heard is only caused by the amp seeing a short condition.
If Klaus said the amp could have its negative terminals tied together, and you still experienced a short condition, this points to something being miswired in the amp.
If one channel is wired in reverse polarity, it would play fine with only one speaker connected to each channel, although you would have diminished bass, but you would get a short condition if the "negative" terminals were tied together because one "negative" terminal would actually be a positive. One channel being wired in reverse polarity would also prevent proper operation of the Dreadnought.
Try reversing speaker cable polarity at one speaker and then the other to see if you hear increased bass response. If you hear increased bass response with one speaker's polarity reversed, then that channel is miswired.
If you want to be adventurous, try strapping the negative of the correctly wired channel to the positive of the incorrectly wired channel and you should not get the howl. The Dreadnought should also work.
If you want to be safe, tell Klaus that you suspect that one channel's polarity is reversed and ask him how you can verify this.
I wish I had seen this before this am. The amp is boxed up to be returned to Odyssey. However, I will forward this information to Klaus so he can have a look before he totally reconfigures everything.
Thanks for the suggestions DK."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Leftplumma wrote: »Neil, if your still reading is your A-1a hooked up this way????
Yes. Krell +/- hooked up to speaker +/- on both speakers. Dreadnaught + connected to SDA connector, Dreadnaught - connected to speaker -. Sounds gorgeous.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Yes. Krell +/- hooked up to speaker +/- on both speakers. Dreadnaught + connected to SDA connector, Dreadnaught - connected to speaker -. Sounds gorgeous.
Also is your Krell amp fully balanced?Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
DarqueKnight wrote: »This is the best indication that something is wrong with the amp's ground scheme. The howl you heard is only caused by the amp seeing a short condition.
If Klaus said the amp could have its negative terminals tied together, and you still experienced a short condition, this points to something being miswired in the amp.
If one channel is wired in reverse polarity, it would play fine with only one speaker connected to each channel, although you would have diminished bass, but you would get a short condition if the "negative" terminals were tied together because one "negative" terminal would actually be a positive. One channel being wired in reverse polarity would also prevent proper operation of the Dreadnought.
Try reversing speaker cable polarity at one speaker and then the other to see if you hear increased bass response. If you hear increased bass response with one speaker's polarity reversed, then that channel is miswired.
If you want to be adventurous, try strapping the negative of the correctly wired channel to the positive of the incorrectly wired channel and you should not get the howl. The Dreadnought should also work.
If you want to be safe, tell Klaus that you suspect that one channel's polarity is reversed and ask him how you can verify this.
Thanks DK.
I have been mentioning that adding the Dreadnought has diminished the bass in my system.
I double checked all the connections this morning, and everything seems ok.
If I stand to one side or another directly in front of a speaker, there is muck more bass, and everything just sounds better.
When I move back to the sweet spot, most of the bass goes away.
Could polarity be reversed at the A-1a??
Would swapping the leads on one set of windings actually put the dreadnought out of phase??
Thanks for your time everyone.Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
Yes but I am using the single ended inputs.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
Actually I did use the balanced inputs prior to last summer, when I still had my balanced dac and preamp. During that time I was using the 800VA Dreadnaught.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
-
Leftplumma wrote: »Could polarity be reversed at the A-1a??
Would swapping the leads on one set of windings actually put the dreadnought out of phase??
Yes, an improperly wired Dreadnought could diminish bass response.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Yes but I am using the single ended inputs.
I am also using the single ended approach.
Does using the balanced inputs change the amp operation in any way?
Also I'm not sure but although your amp has balanced inputs, I'm not sure it is fully balanced as the FPB series.
I looked around, but could not find the information.
So maybe that would be the difference between your setup and mine......
Nice amp by the way!Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Yes, an improperly wired Dreadnought could diminish bass response.
Thanks DK.
I'm going back this weekend and rechecking everything again to see if there is something I've done to cause this.Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
Also does anyone else out there have this strange disappearing bass in the center of the room that I'm getting??Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
That would seem to be a room anomaly since you have bass close to the speakers.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I asked if a Polk engineer could provide some input. Here's the response,"Sounds like the amps are non-common GND and the AI-1 is reacting with the outpts – i.e. not a perfect isolator or perhaps causing oscillation."Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I asked if a Polk engineer could provide some input. Here's the response:
"Sounds like the amps are non-common GND and the AI-1 is reacting with the outpts – i.e. not a perfect isolator or perhaps causing oscillation."
Thanks for that. FYI I sent the contents of DK's post #68 to Klaus and his reponse was that it's unlikely that the amp is miswired, but he asked me to send pics of the internals.
So I've carted that heavy a## amp back in the house, will unbox it and take the pics and get them off to him this am. Will also try some of DK's suggestions to see if I can work out the issues. If not it goes back to Odyssey for reworking on Monday."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
"Sounds like the amps are non-common GND and the AI-1 is reacting with the outpts i.e. not a perfect isolator or perhaps causing oscillation."
This is what Klaus is thinking, though he's stumped as to why this would be the case."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Have you tried the polarity reversal tests?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
-
DarqueKnight wrote: »Have you tried the polarity reversal tests?
I did not. I dragged it back into the house, took sent pics of the insides per above and sent to Klaus so he could inspect the wiring. He saw nothing wrong so I've given up trying to trouble shoot.
UPS should deliver the amp to him today. He's already populating new boards and preparing for the reconversion.
- sigh -"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
My Stratos has been converted from Dual Mono back to Stereo with more upgrades added to the mix: Kismet board, & 4 more reference caps. Can't wait to get it reconnected and hear the big rig again. :cool:
Hope everything plays well together . . . stay tuned."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
drumminman wrote: »My Stratos has been converted from Dual Mono back to Stereo with more upgrades added to the mix: Kismet board, & 4 more reference caps. Can't wait to get it reconnected and hear the big rig again. :cool:
Hope everything plays well together . . . stay tuned.
So will you be using the A-1a with the new setup?
Or are you just going to run with a straight connection?
Hope everything works out well.
I'll be taking the Krell down for service in a few weeks.Polk SDA 1.2 TL
Infinity SSW-210
Integra DTR 7.1
Pioneer SC-57 Elite
Sony X777ES
Sansui BA-5000
Hafler XL 600's in mono w/ George Kay Audio Tube upgrades
Hafler xl 600 stock
Krell FPB 600
Avel 1000VA Dreadnought -
The AI-1 will be in the mix. When it was a stereo amp before the dual mono adventure, the AI-1 provided a nice jump in sound quality."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
-
drumminman wrote: »My Stratos has been converted from Dual Mono back to Stereo with more upgrades added to the mix: Kismet board, & 4 more reference caps. Can't wait to get it reconnected and hear the big rig again. :cool:
Hope everything plays well together . . . stay tuned.
Nice Fred! Glad you get to listen to your gear again. Please keep us updated.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Got the reworked Stratos last night, brought it home and popped the top to have a look at the changes in the conversion back to stereo. Still has the extra transformer, now with 4 new reference grade caps (in addition to the ones I had him install earlier), and upgraded board. What's missing: the iec for the extra power cord, the extra board.
Put it back in the system, reconnected everything including the AI-1, held my breath and powered up the amp; then the pre and cdp. There's a buzzing, but not the same as before. Sounds like a ground loop, possibly from the cable.
Time to play a CD. Popped in Bonnie Raitt "Silver Linings". No issues though the sound was congested. By about half way through things started to fall into place, soundstage increased, better clarity, better top end.
I've had music on for an hour so far this am and so far so good. The amp needs to be powered up 24/7 for best SQ, but it's only getting slightly warm after an hour of music at nice room filling volume.
Have to track down the source of the hum and fix that (can't be heard with music playing, even during quiet passages),
but - cough,cough - sniff -
SDA had returned to my house! :cheesygrin: :cool: "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
I read this entire thread yesterday morning and was starting to sweat a little bit. I just got my Dreadnought xformer from Brock (800VA) earlier this week and was going to be using it with my new to me BAT VK-500 dual mono design fully balanced amp. Well after triple checking my wiring and getting everything hooked up, I crossed my fingers and applied power. No sound everything perfectly quiet, next I started some music. Everything sounded perfect, SDA effect was there and this amp has added so much to my system that I don't know where to start in describing the sound. Glad to see you got yours back up and working, I would be in a bad place without my 2.3's working now that I have them in the house and playing some of the sweetest sound I have ever heard.Home Theater
Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
Two Channel
Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV -
Congrats Steve, glad it worked out. That is drumminman's old one before he bought the 1000VA unit.
Enjoy
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
