cyprus

tonyb

Any of you guys paying attention to whats going on over there ? Apparently, their government and bankers decided it was ok for them to just take between 7-10 percent of individual bank accounts. Worries that this could spread to Spain and Italy too. Couple years ago that would have been considered a wacko conspiracy theory. This is suppose to be the EU version of a bank bailout I guess.

People started taking their money out of the banks so what did the banks do ? They closed them. Now I don't think this is actual law...yet, but in anticipation of it coming to fruitation they had a run on the banks. Understandable in my book, what did they expect to happen. Crazy frickin world we live in today.

Maybe they should follow Icelands idea.

Instead of bailing out bankers, Iceland arrested them. Instead of targeting its population with brutal austerity measures, Iceland paid off people’s underwater mortgages. Iceland also allowed people to pay off debts in foreign currency, which were declared illegal, with the devalued krona.

The result was that Icelanders had more money in their pocket, reinvested it into the economy and now the country has enjoyed a miracle financial turnaround.

Go figure, you mean when people have more money in their pockets.....they spend it ? What an awakening !!

EndersShadow

When I have money in my pocket I look in the flea market :biggrin:......

When I dont have money in my pocket..... I look in the flea market and try to hack pepsters paypal account :eek::razz:

Just kidding on that last one pepster old buddy

obieone

BLASHPEMER!!!
HERETIC!!!
SORCERER!!!
Be gone WITCH, before we burn you at the stake!

soundfreak1

Pucker up!! Were next

ZLTFUL

3 checking accounts: Check
2 savings accounts: Check
1 401K account: Check
Stocks: Check
55 gallon drum of KY Jelly: Check

I always look on with glee when the stock market goes crazy high and starts setting records. And then I sit back and chuckle to myself. I never point out that the biggest stock market crashes in history were always preceded by a month or two of bullish markets. Up...UP...UP...freefall.

Fortunately, I have a very good survival instinct and tend to jump ship as the iceberg begins to scrape along the side.

rpf65

One of the more stupidest ideas that anybody has ever come up with. Since the vast majority of the Cypres economy, and a fairly good chunk of those deposits are foreign investments, if this passes I see nothing but bad things happening for that little country. The last thing that anybody likes to see is any government changing the rules just to suit them at the moment. Can't tell that to a politician though.

bmbguy

So anyone who doesn't yet believe that the world's financial system is in serious trouble might wanna think about it again.

scottyboy76

a country of 1 million people owed the eu 7 billion, no one seemed to care until it all hit the fan and some of their money was threatened, sound familiar.

Systems

EndersShadow wrote: »

When I have money in my pocket I look in the flea market :biggrin:......

When I dont have money in my pocket..... I look in the flea market and try to hack pepsters paypal account :eek::razz:

Just kidding on that last one pepster old buddy

The password is: Camelsex

Why do I picture Jesse waking up early (around midnight), so he can be at the 28 different banks he uses, as soon as they open up?:cheesygrin:

larry777

I am following it. The EU ( Germany who is the Real Power ) needs Cyprus as an Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier,Naval Base and Intelligence gathering location ( It is Now ). They have to protect their oil Interests, and be able to carry out their plan to deal with Iran's aggression and move into the Holy Land. When you look at history....the other Crusades were launched and supported through Cyprus ! The proof that they own them now, and how much power they have, is taking money from everyone's bank accounts.

cnh

Things are pretty messed up on that side. But fear not, the German banks won't "lose" anything if "they" can help it!

What's been happening for quite some time in the First World is a "leveling" of the value of all their, our, currency, mostly do to "debt" and the fact that the nations that we used to extract value from are now taking it back from us. The complexity of the process leaves most of the theorizing about it sounding like NO one knows exactly what is happening (least of all, the actual experts in the field of economics). But in general, U.S. and Euro economies are getting their labor markets "depressed" so that the VALUE of labor worldwide and the assets that that labor can command will achieve "parity" with places like China and India, etc.

It is also TOO LATE to try and talk about RADICAL cuts to Govt. etc., because we are NOT WORTH what we are. The solution is simple. Halve or even quarter the value of all assets and labor in the U.S., Europe, etc. tomorrow and you halve or quarter the DEBT without having to CUT anything.

But who in his right mind would propose the "simplest" solution, that would require "everyone" to be worth 1/2 or 1/4 of what he was yesterday, REGARDLESS of who or what that person or institution is?

I know, it's "nutty". And it would be painful. But it's "honest". The the wealth of the everyone is just not at the right level to dig us out of world wide debt.

Kind of like returning the economy to the early 60s. I remember we were renting a one bedroom apartment for $50 a month, and Doctors used to make house calls. That's about what we're worth, right now! lol

cnh

larry777

Has anyone read the Redhouse Report ?..... Go to yahoo and put it in the search. Then find "Revealed "........You will read about Top Secret **** Documents written in 1944 that were protected by The Allied High Command. It will help you understand some of this. :eek:

George Grand

larry777 wrote: »

Has anyone read the Redhouse Report ?..... Go to yahoo and put it in the search. Then find "Revealed "........You will read about Top Secret **** Documents written in 1944 that were protected by The Allied High Command. It will help you understand some of this. :eek:

Yup, looks like the Gestapo all the way.

Son, you are OUT THEEEEEEEERE!

tonyb

You guys are sure good for a nightly giggle or two. Seriously ? Secret **** documents ? Didn't read the link....your scarying me my friend.

Back to the topic at hand. I was thinking of how we could incorporate such an idea here.....then I realized we already have with zero outrage.

US Version: Corzine steals 1.8 Billion, US Government (our Non-Justice Department rules that a clients cash in accounts no longer belongs to the client/customer, it belongs to the bank/investment company. In reality, no different.

I guess that old saying of never keeping all your eggs in one basket rings true for some.

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

Things are pretty messed up on that side. But fear not, the German banks won't "lose" anything if "they" can help it!

What's been happening for quite some time in the First World is a "leveling" of the value of all their, our, currency, mostly do to "debt" and the fact that the nations that we used to extract value from are now taking it back from us. The complexity of the process leaves most of the theorizing about it sounding like NO one knows exactly what is happening (least of all, the actual experts in the field of economics). But in general, U.S. and Euro economies are getting their labor markets "depressed" so that the VALUE of labor worldwide and the assets that that labor can command will achieve "parity" with places like China and India, etc.

It is also TOO LATE to try and talk about RADICAL cuts to Govt. etc., because we are NOT WORTH what we are. The solution is simple. Halve or even quarter the value of all assets and labor in the U.S., Europe, etc. tomorrow and you halve or quarter the DEBT without having to CUT anything.

But who in his right mind would propose the "simplest" solution, that would require "everyone" to be worth 1/2 or 1/4 of what he was yesterday, REGARDLESS of who or what that person or institution is?

I know, it's "nutty". And it would be painful. But it's "honest". The the wealth of the everyone is just not at the right level to dig us out of world wide debt.

Kind of like returning the economy to the early 60s. I remember we were renting a one bedroom apartment for $50 a month, and Doctors used to make house calls. That's about what we're worth, right now! lol

cnh

You know my friend I love a good debate with you, except I'll be damned this time we have nothing to debate as I agree with your post. One aspect we may disagree on, even though you didn't mention it, is the fact that our current leaders are playing the pied pipper and leading us down that exact path of mediocracy on par with the rest of the world....and we are told to like it or shut up.

Dangerous and strange times for sure CNH, and people wonder why mass amounts of guns are being sold. Duh...

rpf65

I think that many people are missing something here. If the Cypriot government does "tax" the money people saved and entrusted in good faith to a bank entrusted by the same gov't to be kept safe, and the same government decides that only 90% of the money can be trusted to be safe because the government and bank screwed up, why would anybody trustthe bank and/or government again. If a 2nd government tries this, would anybody, anywhere, trust either of these 2 entities with their money?

Where and when does it stop? From what I've read, the British are already taxing, what they deem, as extra rooms on peoples homes. In other words if you are single, and have 2 bedrooms you should pay more in taxes, because you really only need 1 bedroom. Again,where and when does it stop?

Not trying to start a conspiracy or anything, but people comparing history with current events see a corralation. Just seems to me that the problem is that fewer people are willing to say "I made a mistake. or I was wrong." From some idiot saying we need to take your money, because you have a little extra, to another idiot saying you really don't need that extra room is a slap in the face to people who believe in sacrificing a vacation for that dream that they have. Lets face it, nobody really needs a 5.1 HT system, let alone 11.2. Your tv already comes with speakers, just use them and be happy with it.

I really don't see much of a difference between any of these things. Just another person or group of people saying I don't like something and feels that they are the most important person(s) on the planet, so they have to be right. Only an idiot coudn't understand that.

tonyb

rpf65 wrote: »

I think that many people are missing something here. If the Cypriot government does "tax" the money people saved and entrusted in good faith to a bank entrusted by the same gov't to be kept safe, and the same government decides that only 90% of the money can be trusted to be safe because the government and bank screwed up, why would anybody trustthe bank and/or government again. If a 2nd government tries this, would anybody, anywhere, trust either of these 2 entities with their money? .

Well now thats it in a nutshell isn't it ? Some like to tippy toe around it, like the English do, but in the end whatever is yours really isn't. Where does it end you say ? When everyone is sold back into servitude under one regime and then the whole process starts over again. Of course not after a few wars and hundreds of millions dead will anyone come to know freedom again. Such is the circle of life.

Thing with Cyprus which is kinda amusing, it has boat loads of Russian money. So in essense they are stealing from the russians. Gee, thats gonna go over well with the Russian Mafia. This is why governments want to own automatic weapons, and tell you that you can't. Tell a well armed civillian population that your going to skim some of their money off the top....you better have a bullet proof vest, automatic weapons, lots of bullets and armored vehicles. Wait....ours does, go figure. Hmmm....

Anyway, early estimates are this move could rake in as much as 15 billion. Take one billion, and you can buy a boat load of politicians with 14 billion left over for the bankers and EU. In our country, bankers and government are joined at the hip. Can nobody see the inherit problem with this ? Everything that plays out in Europe today is a glimpse into our very own future. Yet, we keep whistling dixie as we march down the same path expecting something different. Color me confused, as I sure don't get why more people don't see it, realize it, or even give 2 hoots about it.

This is what happens when the well runs dry. All that spending and borrowing that you know can never be repaid. Then you have a hord of cash sitting in personal accounts.....heck, lets go get us some. When that well runs try, it will then turn into a land grab. After that, you better brush up on your kneeling.

larry777

Maybe you better go read the REDHOUSE REPORT ! :arrowu:

Dabutcher

I heard Italy might do this next? A lot of the money in Cyprus banks is Russian mob and government officials money? How does That end?

Jhayman

Better get Fox Mulder and Dana Skully on the case to explain the X-Files..

George Grand wrote: »

Yup, looks like the Gestapo all the way.

Son, you are OUT THEEEEEEEERE!

tonyb

Like a snowball rolling downhill, bad ideas pick up steam. I guess New Zealand is mulling over this grand idea of skimming deposits too. It sure will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm going to predict right now somebody will lose their life over this, maybe many will.

tonyb

larry777 wrote: »

Has anyone read the Redhouse Report ?..... Go to yahoo and put it in the search. Then find "Revealed "........You will read about Top Secret **** Documents written in 1944 that were protected by The Allied High Command. It will help you understand some of this. :eek:

Ok, just to be fair I googled the Redhouse report and did a tad bit of reading. It's the same song and dance that's played out over history time and time again, even today. Nothing real earth shattering imho. You have power hungry parties or individuals in bed with industrialists/corporations to control the masses of people under slave wages for their benefit. Your life belongs to them. Has Marxist written all over it.

The Germans of that time certainly had their heads focused on world domination, can't say that's still the case today. The United Nations has taken up that grand scheme. Sleeper agents....what country doesn't have any these days. Spying is big around the globe. Did I miss something ? Because from what I can tell, old Germany certainly had it's sights on something larger, but they failed in the end. Todays Germany can barely hold on to their own while supporting the entire Euro zone. Whats the revelation I'm suppose to see in this report ?

Power hungry parties and corporations.....together ? Have you looked around your own backyard lately ? Corporations feeding government personal information on you, tracking you, drones, controlling the free flow of information, what you read, hear, see in the news reels. Listening in on cell phones, peeking into your bank accounts, giving government info on your energy usage. There are about 20 individuals that control all the news sources.....for a country of 300+ million. Kinda easy to contain the message that way isn't it ? There's only 2 things happening here, control and tax. Somewhere in Washington, there's a group of guys crunching numbers to see what they can tax by what information collected. Think those new smart meters are for your benefit ? Yet with every election cycle, we keep marching down this path....only focused on social issues.

In my view, 2 things need to happen. The banking system and government need to get divorced. Second, corporate money needs to go away flowing into Washington. I don't buy the argument that corporations are individuals and should be allowed to donate money as such.

When I talk about government and corporations, power hungry political parties and corporations, one only needs to look at today. You have Google, Facebook, Twitter, GE, GM, and a host of Wall street firms joined at the hip with government. When crap hits the fan, who gets bailed out, and with who's money ? Is this not just about the same as whats happening in Cyprus ? We just have a more convoluted way of going about it is all.

EndersShadow

Cyprus Spring anyone......

tonyb

EndersShadow wrote: »

Cyprus Spring anyone......

Sounds like a dirty hotel.....I like it.:cheesygrin:

Themed rooms ? Do they have a slide ? Love sak ? Tell me more......

scottyboy76

Many of you guys have actually studied these issues more than me, and it is very interesting reading your posts.

I can only give a few general views, a couple predictions, and maybe what has changed for the worse or better, i would be very interested in any opinions on mine, here goes.

1)It all seems like a game at the high levels, unfathomable levels of debt that are never taken seriously, but on the street level, you better pay.

2)It seems the same groups of people,nationalitys, whatever, with individual exceptions of course, are still running things, all others are still on the sidelines with their hands out, only tactics and severity of consequences change.

3)technology has allowed far tighter scrutiny and pain on individuals than ever before,without anywhere near the same level of accountability at the decision making level.

4)The right is the left, and vice versa.

5)There is no opting out, no minding yours and i will mind mine, even charity is enforced.

tonyb

Kinda of a very simplistic look Scotty....no offense.

You are right in the sense that it's a game played on a higher level. One between Germany and Russian leaders. Much has to do with the usuall culprits, oil and gas. The EU, I had heard explained, is like the roach motel, you can check in but never check out. The Germans are getting pretty tired of working hard and paying for countries that don't, or take their finances seriously.

Same financial equation thats spouted here, take from the wealthy and give to the irresponsable. Countries like Greece, Italy, Spain, and a few others have such welfare benefits , pension benefits, that none will be sustainable over periods of time. You simply run out of money and need new sources to keep funding or borrow more coin. We do the same thing but on a much larger scale. We keep spending and borrowing to support the same ideals, only there is nobody large enough to bail us out. So you keep looking for ways to raise new revenue. Tax this or that, but even thats not enough anymore. You need something bigger, like a carbon tax, a national sales tax.

Like our friends on the other side of the pond, you get to a point where it is of no benefit for yourself to work your butt off to have the majority of it taken from you. It becomes an easier lifestyle to join the other side and be on the receiving end. When you tell people enjoying the benefits of someone elses labor that they have to give up some of those benefits, riots will soon happen. Thats the inherit problem, sooner or later you run out of other peoples money. Much like we are experiencing here. Nobody likes to balance their checkbook at the end of the day, but we do....and adjust our lifestyles accordingly. That simple financial theory has long been forgotten by the elites of most every country around the world. In essense, we are living and financing todays lifestyle on tomarrows wages. Thats a mathematical equation destined to fail.

You can argue the politics of it all, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Unless you seperate the financial aspect and the political one, regardless of what ideology you follow, a crisis will always happen resulting in your personal wallet becoming lighter .

Cyprus plays that out along with many other EU nations time and time again. Like reading the same book over and over again expecting a different ending. Can we not learn, here, to change the ending you have to re-write the book ?

smglbrth

Nothing new here in this world. People in general just repeat history, never learn from it. Humans have always wanted Power, pure and simple, absolute power over others. Soon, the American way of life, and America itself, will go down in flames, I have no doubt of this (for many reasons). Sorry to not have much hope in the future but the writing has been on the wall for years, it's just lately people are starting to see it...

wayne3burk

I don't think you can compare individual EU country economies to the economies of "independent" countries. The real problem with Greece, Spain, Ireland, Italy and now Cyprus is they cannot print their own currency. Bailing out Cyprus is like bailing out Mississippi. Mississippi cannot print it's own money either.

In the pre-EU days Greece would just turn on the Drachma printing press and suddenly they paid their creditors with toilet paper. Problem solved.

I don't know the whole story of the why or the how of the common currency, but if you will notice Great Britain didn't buy into it.

Luckily in our situation we can keep the printing presses running, and the rest of the world keeps buying our gov't bonds. Which in my opinion is what is really keeping our economy (and society) from crashing around our feet. Let's pray the world continues to use the U.S. Dollar as the de facto international currency standard.

Don't worry, there's always another crisis just around the corner....:rolleyes:

scottyboy76

You are right on two points in my opinion wayne.

The only thing that will forestall the inevitable collapse is printing more and more money.

And they have a never ending series of crisis to trot out, just look up the presidential and vp debates from past elections.

You would be astounded at what they were yapping and flailing their arms about(and of course claiming we werent spending enough to deal with), and very few of the issues are still with us, just replaced with better tax grabbers.

rpf65

When you look at everything, Cyprus was no different than GM, for an example. Cyprus got into this mess because their major banks made very risky investments. They put a lot of money in Greek bonds, thinking another bailout was on the way. Problem is that it didn't go that way. They banks lost a lot of money on the last round of the Greek fiasco. Much like GM depended on the U.S. government for help, the Cyprus banks went to thei government.

The government helped them out, figuring incorectly that they would get bailed out by the E.U. Germany has simply decided that enough is enough, and France is right there with them. Seems that people are getting tired of bailing out large companies, and will no longer buy their products, in the case of GM, or want some political changes, in the case of Cyprus.

Those of us that look at things a little differently than those writing headlines see the real problem here. Weather it was the "one time tax" on bank accounts in Cypress, the insane bailout of GM, or all the idiotic spending programs of the U.S. government. The people/entities causing these problems are not being held accountable for their actions. There is an endless amount of "other people" to blame. It isn't the fault of Cyprus that the world went into a recession, and decimated tourism. They just didn't have time to recover, and please ignore the stupid investments we made.

It isn't GM's fault that a severe recession happened, that was the banks who did that. Never mind the federal government threatened legal actions against banks to make extremely risky mortgage loans, which caused the financial crisis. It isn't the fault of the single mother, age 26 with 6 kids, that she will never find a job. If that hard working rich guy would pay his fair share, we could help her. Never mind that the rich guy worked his butt off to get where he is at, and the mother decided that the 4th guy really loved her, and was destined to marry him. Until he moved 2 states away, I know this woman so it isn't made up.

It's always somebodies elses fault that these fool proof plans didn't work.

tonyb

wayne3burk wrote: »

I don't think you can compare individual EU country economies to the economies of "independent" countries. The real problem with Greece, Spain, Ireland, Italy and now Cyprus is they cannot print their own currency. Bailing out Cyprus is like bailing out Mississippi. Mississippi cannot print it's own money either.

In the pre-EU days Greece would just turn on the Drachma printing press and suddenly they paid their creditors with toilet paper. Problem solved.

I don't know the whole story of the why or the how of the common currency, but if you will notice Great Britain didn't buy into it.

Luckily in our situation we can keep the printing presses running, and the rest of the world keeps buying our gov't bonds. Which in my opinion is what is really keeping our economy (and society) from crashing around our feet. Let's pray the world continues to use the U.S. Dollar as the de facto international currency standard.



Don't worry, there's always another crisis just around the corner....:rolleyes:

Someone that gets it, kudos my good man. Though I may add, how long before we have to bail out California, Illinois ? Same thing isn't it ? The Fed. government hands over x amount for schools but the majority gets eaten up in lavish pension benefits.

Incidently, you should read up on what happened in Great Britian in the 70's when their currency collapsed. The world currencies are really a basket of currencies from various nations. Those in the basket get to print their own money. That gets into a more complicated scenario with values, QE, and trade and a host of other topics.

Given our situation of 17 trillion in debt and over 90 trillion in unfunded liability, which nobody talks about either, how do you think America's book will end ? Some will certainly blame capitalism, but I say to you it will be not from the capitalism theory, but those who's hands it's success or failure was placed in.