Audio GD versus Emotiva

Braddles

headrott wrote: »

The bold part of your statement is the important part.

I have built my own DAC (in a post above is a link to it) and it does not contain a single piece I purchased and soldered into it that came from China. Please do not try to compare current Japanese made items with current Chinese made ones. It doesn't fly...

I take it you don't own any recently made Polk speakers then?

BlueFox

kuntasensei wrote: »

Nice and clean looking design, but price wise, edges awfully close to where more established brands sit. Still, nice looking gear!

Good point.

headrott

Braddles wrote: »

I take it you don't own any recently made Polk speakers then?

Nope. SDA's all the way.......I do have RD0-198's in them though, but this has been discussed already recently.......

Edit: Oh and Monitor 10's

Braddles

headrott wrote: »

Nope. SDA's all the way.......I do have RD0-198's in them though, but this has been discussed already recently.......

Edit: Oh and Monitor 10's

Well let's hope the tweeters don't let you down then.

tonyb

gdb wrote: »

China may produce some worthwhile goods but.......their long-run track record for product quality, environment & plain old human rights/ decency (not to mention hygiene :eek:) is abysmal ! They are turning their country into a toxic Hell, with zero regard for the ultimate consequences. Whenever I have the option, I will always buy non-Chinese products. Oh......and no melamine for my dog's food either, thanks just the same. :rolleyes:

What all that has to do with dacs is beyond me.

Audio-gd uses better parts, just like any other product which costs more. There's reasons why another product cost less. Both companies mentioned are online retailers. Audio-gd is more focused on their narrow product line while Emo has more variety in their offerings aside from dacs. Being built in China, what does that mean really ? Just about everything we use in part or in whole is from China, so what. Alot of audio products are made there, shipped here, sold here. The difference in price between the 2 usually comes down to quality, just like why cars cost vary.

Fox, your an intelligent guy, no disrespect ment but when asking why 2 products costs vary I have a feeling you already know that answer.

The rest of you guys know the drill. Regardless of name brand or price tag, get your ears on one and decide for yourself which is better and move on from there.

[Deleted User]

First off, sorry for messing up your thread. I will man up and admit, I was drunk posting. My apologies.

Let the stoning begin.

BlueFox

halenhoang wrote: »

First off, sorry for messing up your thread. I will man up and admit, I was drunk posting. My apologies.

No problemo.

Jhayman

Tonyb, of course Fox knows the answer.
This thread was started just to poke the bear and belittle gear made in China end of story.
Companies are in it for profit, whether American, Canadian, German or Chinese..
Now here's the hard part for you to understand Fox, some companies are very Greedy and take advantage of the unknowing person looking to buy.
Yes even Chinese companies are catching on now and doing it, lets charge more for our product and people will think its better.
It's a very well known practice to do this.
You should know first hand with your Shunyata PC for 2K..
Do you really think there is more than say $200 and im being very generous here worth of material in those cables.
Since joining ClubPolk I have seen and looked up various gear and seen pricing fluctuations of less than 50% to other retailers.
Bottom line is money everyone wants as much as they can get.

tonyb wrote: »

What all that has to do with dacs is beyond me.

Audio-gd uses better parts, just like any other product which costs more. There's reasons why another product cost less. Both companies mentioned are online retailers. Audio-gd is more focused on their narrow product line while Emo has more variety in their offerings aside from dacs. Being built in China, what does that mean really ? Just about everything we use in part or in whole is from China, so what. Alot of audio products are made there, shipped here, sold here. The difference in price between the 2 usually comes down to quality, just like why cars cost vary.

Fox, your an intelligent guy, no disrespect ment but when asking why 2 products costs vary I have a feeling you already know that answer.

The rest of you guys know the drill. Regardless of name brand or price tag, get your ears on one and decide for yourself which is better and move on from there.

SCompRacer

headrott wrote: »

I built my own DAC..........

And a fine DAC it is! DIY can take you much further up the quality chain than buying new/used retail. A rule of thumb is parts/labor 1/4 of the retail cost. That will vary of course depending on business model.

Do you do one leg at a time or both?:cheesygrin:

michael1947

We should be cautious about where stuff is made. In the US we have laws, content laws which dictate how we label. Don't think for a minute that any German, UK, or other country "Made in" stamp includes everything in the package. They are just as greedy as the rest of us and will use whatever makes their stuff work with the highest profit margin. If you think all of the components contained within your gear are made by and in the same company whose name is on the face plate then you may be mistaken.

heiney9

No one ever mentions the costs associated with R & D, people like J-Ham only seem care about the material costs. A company like MIT has spent A LOT on R & D for their cables, that cost has to be recouped. It's not always about raw material costs.............just keep that in mind. Also there is a certain comfort level and satisfaction going with a tried and true brand that has a well proven track record. In any industry that brand commands a higher $$ because people are willing to pay it. Notice I said willing because if you don't have customers, you don't have a profitable business.

H9

heiney9

Any audio guy worth his/her salt can see Audio GD uses discrete components rather than I/C's. The cost associated with discrete designs is higher because there is more to it. That's one of the very simple factors in why they can cost more.

H9

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

Any audio guy worth his/her salt can see Audio GD uses discrete components rather than I/C's. The cost associated with discrete designs is higher because there is more to it. That's one of the very simple factors in why they can cost more.

H9

H9 how do you find Audio GD to compare to your Keces or have you been able to hear units from both? I know Keces no longer makes the USB and Coaxial DAC's :sad: but was curious in case I see a Keces come onto the market if its worth snapping up, or just comparable to a Audio GD unit.

Emlyn

A simple view of internals kindly hosted by either manufacturer shows the differences:

Audio GD Master 7 DAC:

http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-7/M73.JPG

Emotiva XDA-2:

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xda2

Based on what's in the Audio GD DACs and comparing them to equivalent DACs from more traditionally known brands, the Audio GD products look like screaming bargains. Everything I've heard about the Audio GD designs indicates their performance matches their build quality.

The Emotiva DAC isn't too bad for its price point either. At $399 it's designed to be inexpensive but fully functional, which is what a lot of Emotiva's customers are looking for. Nothing wrong with that.

Jhayman

The guy in the Shunyata or MIT can't remember which one ,video even tells you up front that they wasted $$$$ in trial and error..
Of course R&D costs money and we as consumers have to pay for it..but at what cost HUGELY inflated prices for a piece of cable..
Please explain to me how it can cost so much Please
There will always be people that believe what they read and people that believe what they hear and people that believe both.
I'm not saying they do not change the sound to some degree or another but there are so many company's making cables now it makes you think, gee there is a huge potential for profit here..

heiney9 wrote: »

No one ever mentions the costs associated with R & D, people like J-Ham only seem care about the material costs. A company like MIT has spent A LOT on R & D for their cables, that cost has to be recouped. It's not always about raw material costs.............just keep that in mind. Also there is a certain comfort level and satisfaction going with a tried and true brand that has a well proven track record. In any industry that brand commands a higher $$ because people are willing to pay it. Notice I said willing because if you don't have customers, you don't have a profitable business.

H9

heiney9

Well I did do a review but I feel the Keces in USB mode edges out the Audio GD NFB-3. It was close, but I kept coming back to the Keces no matter how l**g I listened or material used. I also compared the modded Adcom GDA 600 and it was a lot better than the Audio GD in every aspect, but I expected that. Since the Keces is USB **ly I haven't used it in the main rig.

H9

heiney9

Jhayman wrote: »

The guy in the Shunyata or MIT can't remember which **e ,video even tells you up fr**t that they wasted $$$$ in trial and error..

He specifically use the word "wasted"? If that's the case then it's not really R & D, because R & D is not wasteful, it's positive feedback.

If it was MIT that said that.................then I'm glad they "wasted" the $$$ because their cables and I/C's are simply fantastic!!!

H9

P.s. what's up with the funky quote above, I can't seem to make it look normal, WTF. I didn't insert the asterisks and when I try to remove them, they come back. Seems it happen when "o" and "n" are used together.

teekay0007

Heiny9 - Emotiva On The Road is comin' to see you! :cheesygrin: You are in the Chicago area, aren't you? Why not go check them out and get back to us with your impressions? They're bringing all their HT and 2-channel gear on April 13:

http://emotiva.com/news/index.php/2013/02/20/emotiva-on-the-road-chicago-saturday-april-13-2013/

heiney9

Why do I need to hear it again?

FTGV

SCompRacer wrote: »

And a fine DAC it is!

Nah,those TP Buf designs with all those shunt regulator thingies are over rated IMO.:razz:

FTGV

heiney9 wrote: »

Why do I need to hear it again?

Have you actually heard their DAC?

heiney9

FTGV wrote: »

Have you actually heard their DAC?

Not the newest one. The one I did hear was not horrific, but it was less refined and open than others in it's price range. Just could never get into the sound, not as musical, open or refined as I was used to. I could see someone going from an inexpensive DVDp or CDp and thinking it was very good. But then the bar isn't really all that high when you really think about it in that scenario.

Absolutely hated the volume feature. Nothing like adding unessential parts to the signal path, IMO.

H9

FTGV

heiney9 wrote: »

Not the newest one.

So the XDA 1?Which interestingly appears to have a discrete analog output section vs IC's in the newer one.Ofcourse as a general rule (not specifically EMO or GD)the extra parts count involved going discrete does not necessarily translate into superior sonics.In fact it can be inferior and a potential reliability/service issue down the road.

Absolutely hated the volume feature. Nothing like adding unessential parts to the signal path, IMO.H9

I really like the volume feature on my main dac as it allows driving an amp directly.However the 32 bit DAC chip(ESS Sabre) allows for digital attenuation without a loss of resolution.I can't find specifics but EMO's implementation will be different likely using a digitally controlled stepped attenuator at the analog outputs .While not losing resolution by throwing away bits it is atleast another IC in the signal path.

sucks2beme

So all this nonsense and no one who has an answer?
There really aren't any Audio-gd dealers. Pacific Valve
was reselling them for a while, but dropped them.
The old EMO DACs were getting bad reviews, I have not
heard any of them. I do own a Audio-gd NFB-3.
I got it used off head-fi. I'm pretty happy with the sound
after some tweaking. The newer version use a new improved usb
interface and require a driver. So in both units, all bets are off.
Until someone puts them head to head- it's just people making noise.

Toolfan66

I love the volume control on my DAC as well, one of my favorite features. I can use it as a Pre if I wanted to. A guy I work with purchased the EMO DAC at the RMAS last October. He pulled his Mark Levenson DAC out and sent it in for repairs and used the EMO as a filler till he got it back.

He said its an ok DAC, nothing to write home about but it got him by. It now is collecting dust in his basement. I could borrow it if I wanted but I really don't have any desire to play with it, and I never got around going to his house to listen to it..

His ML DAC is very nice though..

FTGV

sucks2beme wrote: »

Until someone puts them head to head- it's just people making noise.

And same applies to the new vs old EMO's with completely different analog stages if nothing else.

zingo

As an past owner of multiple Audio-GD products, they have very good parts and build quality, and equally good sound quality. I would highly recommend any of their products, and do believe they are priced appropriately for what they offer. They don't make a lot of products, but any of their designs would be great if they fit your needs.

blairfrischx

I've owned several Audio-gd pieces in the past. Their combo DAC and headphone amplifiers are certainly very good for the money.

There's no reason to assume that all Chinese manufacturers are incapable of making good things, and there's no reason to assume that all American manufacturers are inherently better. I can understand xenophobic consumerism to a certain extent, but there's no need to write off all Chinese Hi-Fi companies.

nooshinjohn

teekay0007 wrote: »

Heiny9 - Emotiva On The Road is comin' to see you! :cheesygrin: ]

I wouldn't go to this even if they parked their truck across the street from my house, gave away free food and beer, and had Beyonce giving free lap dances.

BlueFox

Why anyone thinks this thread is about the quality of Chinese manufacturing is beyond me. The point was, and still is, the contention that the reason why Emo is able to price so low is because the gear is made in China, and not because the level of audio design and sound quality is at the lower end of the scale. It occurred to me that if that was true then why is Audio GD priced higher, since they are a pure Chinese company. Based on responses, it appears that Audio GD uses better parts, and the circuit designs result in better sound. Hence the higher price.

While I expected that to be the reason, it is nice to read responses from people who have the gear. However, it also confirms the premise that Emo gear is good, solid, entry level gear, and not a replacement for better gear at higher prices.