Smaller duals or one big sub??

snake1

Theres been a lot of dual sub threads lately and it has made for some good reading. It has me thinking as well which is always costly $$$:cheesygrin:

So, I have a question. I'm preparing to buy the sub in my sig finally. My original plan was to use SVS' trade-up policy to start at the bottom and work my way up to a PC-13 Ultra in a couple of years. Well, with all the dual sub talk plus a good dual sub article on SVS's website, its got me thinking about going a different route. Would 2 PC-12NSD's be better than 1 PC13 Ultra?? The room it/they would be in is around 20x25 with the entertainment center on one of the long walls, plus the room has a high A-frame type ceiling in it. Opinions? Experiences? Suggestions?

ken brydson

Run your situation by SVS. They will not try to oversell you and will give you the best possible advise for your room/application.

leroyjr1

I'd go with the bigger and better ultra and add a second one later down the road. Duals are a big plus but for movies there's no substitution for deep hard hitting bass.

rpf65

As far as low end freq, these subs are pretty equal, 18 vs 19 Hz. Normally I would say gofor the large, but I would probably go for the duel subs, given these 2 choices. I think you will get enough of a db gain to justify the extra cost. It will be more difficult to intergrate 2 subs, but it will probably be worth the effort.

As posted earlier, ask the experts. SVS wouldn't have been in business as long as they have from simply upselling their products.

Phasewolf

I have duel subs and love them. If you co-locate them you will gain 6db and sense mine are currently corner loaded too they make a huge impact.

I would first find a good sounding location in your room for the sub you have and then run a sweep with Rew and see how the room looks as far as peeks and dips this is where duel subs can help the most. One spot maybe great but have a single dip and a other may have a nice peak that cancels the dip

mantis

I'm not a SVS fan due to experience years ago. I haven't heard any of their new subs and by looking at them on the website , they look very impressive.
Out of the 2 you are looking at , the PC-12 looks to be a very fine sub. Using 2 of these I believe will do a much better job then just one Pc-13. But I do also like the option of getting the PC-13 now , setting it up in the room the best you can and then adding another one down the road or screw it , break the bank and buy 2 now.

Just so you know , running 2 subs over just one gives you more seats in the house with good bass coverage. Running 2 sub's isn't to gain more bass in the room but to cover it better. With one sub the issues you run into is you have low spots and some seats may not have barely any low end coverage. This happens a lot in larger rooms like yours. 20 x 25 is a very nice size theater room and I fully believe 2 subs will work much better then just one.

So consider your budget and make the call.

spock 2054

I'd go with 4 subs, if money were no object, and I was single again...2 subs should work in your room. I'd opt for 2 of the larger subs, if funds are available.

treitz3

Hello, snake1. You actually present a great question worthy of a good discussion IMO.

What I would do if I were in your situation and mind you, this is just me based upon my own experience, is go ahead and get the biggest now. When funds permit, add the other smaller ones to balance things out within the room. If, at that point you want to upgrade from there, you still have that option but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what that end result provides. FWIW.

Tom

snake1

Well, I spoke with SVS today and their recommendation for a room that size was dual subs. The ones he recommended were the PC-12 Plus models. The only problem with going duals is cost... 2 NSD's will be $1400 and in my meager budget thats pretty rich! The Plus's are $2279 which is even further out. The core issue with cost is my wife. She'd kill me (couldn't blame her really) for wanting to drop over 2000 on some subs. We think differently if you can imagine that, but I respect her thoughts so I was just going to take my time and work up slowly for one nice big sub over a couple years time. Well, I know which direction is recommended I just have to figure out how to do it. Thank you all for your input, I read and thought about each post!

chris23120

If you have the space, I would definitely go with dual subs. I'm not a huge fan of SVS though, my experiance with them wasn't great. But that was a few years back.. I would buy a cheap used sub to hold you over, any sub is better than no sub at all. Just make sure you get something that you can get back out of later for close to even money. What are your room dimensions?

amgala

I'd go with dual subs, since it takes less power for two smaller subs to have the same total SPL as one larger sub, for similar spec subs. But obviously, sub quality and specs play a part.

snake1

chris23120 wrote: »

If you have the space, I would definitely go with dual subs. I'm not a huge fan of SVS though, my experiance with them wasn't great. But that was a few years back.. I would buy a cheap used sub to hold you over, any sub is better than no sub at all. Just make sure you get something that you can get back out of later for close to even money. What are your room dimensions?

Dimensions are 20x25 with a tall A-frame ceiling. Its not 2story tall but taller than most.

Willow

Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

leroyjr1

rpf65 wrote: »

As far as low end freq, these subs are pretty equal, 18 vs 19 Hz. Normally I would say gofor the large, but I would probably go for the duel subs, given these 2 choices. I think you will get enough of a db gain to justify the extra cost. It will be more difficult to intergrate 2 subs, but it will probably be worth the effort.

As posted earlier, ask the experts. SVS wouldn't have been in business as long as they have from simply upselling their products.

You can't go by just specs. These two subs are by no means equal.

bklynNupe

After a long deliberation, I just added a second sub. I just received my second SVS PB12-NSD on Monday. SVS support was extremely helpful in getting them dialed in properly. I have to say adding dual subs has to be one of my top 5 upgrades of all times. Not only did they address the nulls in my sound stage but both of my monitors seem taller and wider. If a sub is called for, I don’t think I could ever go back to a single sub. I would also consider SVS again because like Polk, they weren't looking for a quick sale but rather how to integrate the best product into what I already had. I would give them a call. Also there support line is open to 9pm ET which is great if you need help with the set up and you work a 9-5.

Devlon

BklynNupe you definitely made the right decision. Adding a second sub made such a dramatic sound improvement, for me, it was like going from Am to Fm radio. Once you've experienced it you can't go back. According to Velodyne tech support, two lesser quality subs will always trump a a single higher quality sub because of the way two subs will cancel and smooth out modes and improve overall sound of your entire system. I put this to the test. I already had one Velodyne Sub, and one Polk Micropro Sub, but adding a friends weak and anemic little JBL SUB10 was a game changer. I was not prepared for the results that adding even a 150.00 sub would do. I couldn't go back and ended up buying another Velodyne, and Polk Subs. There is just no way I can go back to a single sub system ever. People that have never heard two subs in a system can only theorize and speculate. But those of us that have heard a two sub system, it will dominate your thinking until you are able to get two subs.

bklynNupe

What's interesting is that although a lot of folks have dual subs, I really didn't find many threads that talked about this as a must have. Perhaps a single sub is best in some cases? For music and specifically monitors' I really didn't find much in the way of advocating for dual subs. Perhaps duals work best only in some listening environments?

Devlon wrote: »

There is just no way I can go back to a single sub system ever. People that have never heard two subs in a system can only theorize and speculate. But those of us that have heard a two sub system, it will dominate your thinking until you are able to get two subs.

Devlon

I think it may be because so few people have dual subs in comparison to those that have just a single sub. And of those that do have dual subs, they don't take time to write about them (me included! Lol)

chris23120

Willow wrote: »

Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

words to live by

ken brydson

bklynNupe wrote: »

After a long deliberation, I just added a second sub. I just received my second SVS PB12-NSD on Monday. SVS support was extremely helpful in getting them dialed in properly. I have to say adding dual subs has to be one of my top 5 upgrades of all times. Not only did they address the nulls in my sound stage but both of my monitors seem taller and wider. If a sub is called for, I don’t think I could ever go back to a single sub. I would also consider SVS again because like Polk, they weren't looking for a quick sale but rather how to integrate the best product into what I already had. I would give them a call. Also there support line is open to 9pm ET which is great if you need help with the set up and you work a 9-5.

Pic's or it didn't happen. You should know better...:cheesygrin:

ViperZ

bklynNupe wrote: »

What's interesting is that although a lot of folks have dual subs, I really didn't find many threads that talked about this as a must have. Perhaps a single sub is best in some cases? For music and specifically monitors' I really didn't find much in the way of advocating for dual subs. Perhaps duals work best only in some listening environments?

It's difficult to setup dual subs, especially if you have a rectangular listening room (like 99% of us do). So many people will just buy a single very good subwoofer and will be happy with it. I have dual subs (sometimes even triple for HT only), it is/was a pain to setup and equalize the room response, but I like 'audio challenges'.

Glen B

I went from a single sub to dual subs for my HT system. Not only did the sound improve, I got the added bonus of better visual symmetry with equal subs on each side of my equipment cabinet. I have a partial wall along one side of the room, and open space on the other side. The partial wall caused some bass reinforcement on that side, which was audible. Having a sub on the other side balanced out the sound. I use a 2-channel EQ with level controls to tweak and balance the two subs and make them "disappear".

bklynNupe

Here you go. Excuse the wires, I haven't had time to bundle them. :razz:

ken brydson wrote: »

Pic's or it didn't happen. You should know better...:cheesygrin:

bklynNupe

Don't get me wrong, I know they are not perfectly set up. I can tell it is going to get even better with the right tweaking.

ViperZ wrote: »

It's difficult to setup dual subs, especially if you have a rectangular listening room (like 99% of us do). So many people will just buy a single very good subwoofer and will be happy with it. I have dual subs (sometimes even triple for HT only), it is/was a pain to setup and equalize the room response, but I like 'audio challenges'.

snake1

I think I figured out what I'm going to try and do. I'm gonna start with the NSD sub first. Within a year I'll trade up to the Plus. The next year I'll get another NSD and then trade up again to another Plus. That way I'll have 2 Pluses which is what SVS suggested. Sounds like a plan I guess. Could go ahead and work up to the Ultras this way I guess. hmmmmmm

ViperZ

bklynNupe wrote: »

Here you go. Excuse the wires, I haven't had time to bundle them. :razz:

Check out the subwoofer manufacturer websites. Pretty much none of them would recommend putting two subs in symmetrical positions (i.e. beside each main speakers). I had mine just like that for a few months and couldn't figure what was going on. Tried to linearize room response with Velodyne SMS-1, but there was a HUGE hump at one frequency and a huge trough at another, we are talking +/- 12dB. Moved 2nd sub diagonally opposite from the first one, so now it sits beside the couch. BOOM! Bass became very deep and articulate, SMS-1 only had to linearize within 3-6dB at some spots (still not perfect, but doable for active equalizer).
Recommended positions are either diagonally opposite to each other, or one beside mains, 2nd in the middle of the side wall, or each sub along side walls, etc.