Jolida JD 100 CD Player sounding harsh

Indyaudio2

I've owned this CD player for over a year and it has sounded fantastic. Couple weeks ago, cranked it up for some friends and it sounded harsh and distorted at times. I rolled in some other Russian 12AX7 tubes and removed the cages, thought it was fixed, but again, strident highs and unclear bass at volume.

Did a comparison with my tried and true Carver SDA carousel and the Carver was sounding better. I have now put a single play Onkyo in the system to make sure the cables or other downstream components were not suspect and the Onkyo sounds good and clean.

I'm using my Polk SDA SRS 1.2 TLs; Sunfire 300x2 amp on the lows; pair of McIntosh MC30 monoblocks up top and those tubes are all good, no issues. Running other sources like my Rega or Marantz 6300 TTs, sound great. I do think I have isolated it to the Jolida.

Any thoughts here on what may be wrong with the Jolida or next steps? Any known issues with them? I really like the Jolida, well built and sounded great up to this point, kinda stumped on what went wrong or why.

Thanks in advance for the assistance guys!

treitz3

Hello, Indyaudio2. What you may be experiencing is micro-phonics. What kind of isolation do you have underneath the Jolida? You want to make sure that it isn't at, on or too close to the speakers or any type of sub. I'd also like to add that the surface that the Jolida sits on must be as free of vibrations as possible. Do you have any tube dampers?

Tom

cnh

I have the higher model Music Van but it's not that old. Great player. NO harshness whatsoever even with the cheap **** Chinese tubes. Micro-phonics? NONE!

It would be good to check with F1nut on this. He's taken this model apart and performed some "serious" modes to it. If anyone can diagnose this, it's him! Although treitz3 may have a point above. I just don't know enough about this since I've never experienced this supposedly fairly common problem either in my Jolida integrated or in my Jolida CDP.

cnh

Indyaudio2

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello, Indyaudio2. What you may be experiencing is micro-phonics. What kind of isolation do you have underneath the Jolida? You want to make sure that it isn't at, on or too close to the speakers or any type of sub. I'd also like to add that the surface that the Jolida sits on must be as free of vibrations as possible. Do you have any tube dampers?

Tom

treitz3, thanks very much for the reply. Laughable isolation - it sits atop my Carver Carousel CD to get it crammed in my middle rack, that has glass shelves, bad for sure. I don't have any subwoofers, although the bass coming off my upgraded Carver ALiiis or better yet, the SRS 1.2s rocks your gut like or better than any sub I've heard. CD player is between those speakers, not close to either.

I don't have any tube dampers, no experience with them at all, any advice on a reasonably price pair for the 12AX7 tubes?

This weekend, I will try moving the player to another location in the main room, but I'm limited. I have moved the Jolida out to another system and it sounds great, but it's not as revealing as the main system.

What I wonder about is nothing has changed - went from sounding great to subpar. I didn't change anything in the system at all.

Thanks again for the advice. Will post any results from playing around.

Indyaudio2

cnh wrote: »

I have the higher model Music Van but it's not that old. Great player. NO harshness whatsoever even with the cheap **** Chinese tubes. Micro-phonics? NONE!

It would be good to check with F1nut on this. He's taken this model apart and performed some "serious" modes to it. If anyone can diagnose this, it's him! Although treitz3 may have a point above. I just don't know enough about this since I've never experienced this supposedly fairly common problem either in my Jolida integrated or in my Jolida CDP.

cnh

Thanks CNH, will do, thanks for the tip!

treitz3

Indyaudio2 wrote: »

What I wonder about is nothing has changed - went from sounding great to subpar. I didn't change anything in the system at all.

Hmm, that's strange. Never so much as a hiccup from mine. I did have somewhat of the same type of sound artifacts you described in the OP and when I asked about it, F1nut had mentioned that it was possibly my isolation or lack thereof. After isolating the CDP with some Sorbothane risers and adding a different tube damper than the cage, the issues did not remain. Mine sits on an Elite stand that has glass shelves and it sounds incredible, so I doubt it's the glass but I wouldn't rule it out. Different stand, different scenario.

Here's an interesting article about the various tube dampers but keep in mind, it may be a little biased. So take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Still, an interesting article. I use the neoprene dampers and find no reason to advance to any others as they took all of the unwanted artifacts and simply removed them, along with the Sorbothane footers I use. One of these days, I will try the EAT tube dampers or the Herbies. From what I hear, the EAT tube dampers do a really good job but according to the link below, they don't perform that well. I'll find that out for myself and not rely on the write ups of a particular company.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compare.htm

Best of wishes for a speedy solution to your Jolida issues. That's gotta be frustrating. I'll second what cnh said. Talk to Jesse [F1nut]. He probably knows more about this particular player than anybody here. Let us know what the issue ends up being. You have my curiosity going.

Tom

F1nut

I've owned this CD player for over a year and it has sounded fantastic. Couple weeks ago, cranked it up for some friends and it sounded harsh and distorted at times.

Have you ever had the volume up that high before?

I rolled in some other Russian 12AX7 tubes and removed the cages, thought it was fixed, but again, strident highs and unclear bass at volume.

What brand of tubes were you using and how old are they? The Russian 12AX7 tubes you rolled in, what brand, how old, ever used them before?

Indyaudio2

F1nut wrote: »

Have you ever had the volume up that high before?

Yes, volume has been that high or higher in the past many times and sounded very clean, crisp


What brand of tubes were you using and how old are they? The Russian 12AX7 tubes you rolled in, what brand, how old, ever used them before?

The Russian 12AX7 tubes were in the Jolida when I got it (cannot tell what brand they are) and they sounded fine; after the problem started, I rolled in the stock Jolida 12AX7A tubes that came with it. I have a tube tester and both pairs tested good and were very close to matched on emissions.

Mike Reeter

The Jolida has a lot of gain, that coupled with the 12AX7 output "can" be a little hot. Many have found that a vintage RCA Blackplate, some G.E. 5751's or the Sylvania Triple Mica 5751's are a very good match for the JD100.

A detailed, yet smoother presentation....those original and Russian tubes are doing you wrong for sure.

heiney9

I'd seriously look at the tubes or tube being the culprit. I'll never understand why people with a nice rig continue to use the Chinese and Russian stock tubes, most are crap. You have no idea what you are missing by using those mediocre stock tubes. :question:

To each their own...........I guess.

H9

Indyaudio2

Mike Reeter wrote: »

The Jolida has a lot of gain, that coupled with the 12AX7 output "can" be a little hot. Many have found that a vintage RCA Blackplate, some G.E. 5751's or the Sylvania Triple Mica 5751's are a very good match for the JD100.

A detailed, yet smoother presentation....those original and Russian tubes are doing you wrong for sure.

Mike, thanks for the excellent recommendations. I tried a pair of Telefunkens from my MC30 mono block and still had some issues with sound quality.

Indyaudio2

heiney9 wrote: »

I'd seriously look at the tubes or tube being the culprit. I'll never understand why people with a nice rig continue to use the Chinese and Russian stock tubes, most are crap. You have no idea what you are missing by using those mediocre stock tubes. :question:

To each their own...........I guess.

H9

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty new to the tube gear, so appreciate your input. As noted in reply to Mike H, I did roll to some Telefunkens and the problem was not solved.

Indyaudio2

treitz3 wrote: »

Hmm, that's strange. Never so much as a hiccup from mine. I did have somewhat of the same type of sound artifacts you described in the OP and when I asked about it, F1nut had mentioned that it was possibly my isolation or lack thereof. After isolating the CDP with some Sorbothane risers and adding a different tube damper than the cage, the issues did not remain. Mine sits on an Elite stand that has glass shelves and it sounds incredible, so I doubt it's the glass but I wouldn't rule it out. Different stand, different scenario.

Here's an interesting article about the various tube dampers but keep in mind, it may be a little biased. So take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Still, an interesting article. I use the neoprene dampers and find no reason to advance to any others as they took all of the unwanted artifacts and simply removed them, along with the Sorbothane footers I use. One of these days, I will try the EAT tube dampers or the Herbies. From what I hear, the EAT tube dampers do a really good job but according to the link below, they don't perform that well. I'll find that out for myself and not rely on the write ups of a particular company.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compare.htm

Best of wishes for a speedy solution to your Jolida issues. That's gotta be frustrating. I'll second what cnh said. Talk to Jesse [F1nut]. He probably knows more about this particular player than anybody here. Let us know what the issue ends up being. You have my curiosity going.

Tom

Thanks Tom and Jesse for chiming in.

I have 4 Isoblocks from Mapleshade and will try to place the Jolida on them, in another location in the main system, using my vintage Telefunken tubes without the stock cages installed. With any luck this will solve the problem. Can purchase dampers too.

Right now the Jolida is in my secondary system and it sounds fine, but the B&O RL 140s are not nearly as revealing as my main system with the Polks and ALiiis.

I'm trying to locate a DAC from local buddies to try and bypass and see if the issue is digital or perhaps power supply.

Thanks again guys, great input. I'm out of town on business rest of week, so see what I can determine this weekend.

F1nut

At this point I think it's safe to rule out the tubes. I also don't think it's got anything to do with isolation.

Have you tried the second set of RCA's outs? What about the digital out?

Indyaudio2

F1nut wrote: »

At this point I think it's safe to rule out the tubes. I also don't think it's got anything to do with isolation.

Have you tried the second set of RCA's outs? What about the digital out?

Thats kinda what I was thinking on tubes and nothing changed to affect isolation, so I'm with you there.

Yes, the second set of RCA outs was feeding another little system in the room - Dynaco ST70 tube amp; McIntosh C26 pre amp and a few of the speakers, primarily JBL 4312s. Same distortion issues on the same audio tracks.

I have not tried the digital out yet - it's a coax and I don't really have anything to hook it up to on the vintage gear, that's why I wanted to borrow a DAC and see if the bypass solves the problem. I have no experience with DACs or the coax out, is there something else I can do to test in my system? C28 preamp and access to the Carver CT17 preamp both being used, thanks.

heiney9

Indyaudio2 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty new to the tube gear, so appreciate your input. As noted in reply to Mike H, I did roll to some Telefunkens and the problem was not solved.

Yep, with tube gear I always clean the pins and if that doesn't solve the issue, then roll in more tubes to eliminate the most obvious. Next is to check all connections and I/C's as I have found some issues fixed by simply cleaning and reseating connections. Always try and start with the simple, easy stuff and keep moving up. Perhaps a cap has let go.

Good luck and when it back up where it needs to be try some vintage tube rolling.

H9

F1nut

Same distortion issues on the same audio tracks.

And only at higher volume levels, right? It could be a cap or even a transformer. Probably best to send it to Jolida for testing on a scope.

Indyaudio2

Thought you guys might like to see a picture of "the Lab" you are helping me with. I know it has WAY too much stuff in it to sound optimal, but it's what I enjoy. One day, a room with a simple system and the Lab in another:) Thanks again.

Indyaudio2

DSkip wrote: »

Thanks! My wife will appreciate me more when I show her that pic.

LOL! That's a common reaction. Hosted a Superbowl party this weekend and most of the wives had this deer in the headlight look when they ventured into the lab for a look.

My wife is generally good with this as long as it doesn't creep out into the rest of the house...too much. There are 2 more component, quality systems in the lower level; one more in my office; a micro system in the living room; and a vintage system in the garage. She's cool with this, but I've hit the rev limiter:)

Indyaudio2

F1nut wrote: »

And only at higher volume levels, right? It could be a cap or even a transformer. Probably best to send it to Jolida for testing on a scope.

I kinda need to have the volume up to really hear the nuances, but I've heard some of the same distortion at lower volumes too, using the second set of Analog outs to the JBLs. My friend has a Linn Numeric DAC and digital coax cable I will try this weekend. Let you all know what I hear.

Indyaudio2

DSkip wrote: »

My father in law gave me a Pioneer SX-34 and my immediate thoughts were to have it gone through and use it with some bookshelves in the bedroom. I appreciated her look about as much as she appreciated my thoughts.

Here's a few pics of my cleaned up system. It has seen its "cluttered" days, but I've moved on to a system that I really enjoy ATM and have gotten off the speaker carousel for the time being.

Attachment not found.

PS, your issues are of interest to me so I'm glad you're getting some help. The source is the weakest part of my system and every bit of info helps me decide which way to go. Hope it works out and I'm curious where the issue is.

Wish I had your discipline, can't imagine being a one pair of speakers guy, but they must sound sweet all by themselves. My turntables sound great on the system as does my Carver carousel CD, so we'll fix the Jolida. Stay tuned.....thanks.

treitz3

Indyaudio2 wrote: »

I kinda need to have the volume up to really hear the nuances, but I've heard some of the same distortion at lower volumes too....

Yeah, something is definitely amiss. The subtle nuances should be able to be distinguishable at all but the lowest of volumes with this CDP.

Tom

Indyaudio2

Been in CT all week and hoping to get home before the mother of a storm hits tomorrow.

I've lined up a Linn DAC and cable to try the digital coax and bypass the factory DAC. Jolida has indicated they will service the unit, suggests it may likely be power supply issue and/or cap. They estimate $100 or so plus shipping, so I am very good with this.

I'll post my testing with external DAC this weekend. Thanks again for all of the assistance.

cnh

Are you saying that with "all" that equipment, you don't have a surround sound AVR with reasonable DACs (and a coax input) somewhere in there? Because that is hard to believe!

cnh

Indyaudio2

cnh wrote: »

Are you saying that with "all" that equipment, you don't have a surround sound AVR with reasonable DACs (and a coax input) somewhere in there? Because that is hard to believe!

cnh

In that room, nope. Somewhere I have a Dennon AVR receiver from the early 90s. Are you saying I can use it's DAC to receive the coax out from the Jolida and then feed the Dennon to the CD inputs of my McIntosh C28 preamp?

And I picked up my friend's Linn Numerik DAC, and cannot use it - those Linn folks love to make their own proprietary cables. The digital cable that fits the Numeric is more like the one we have from the cable company - has the thin point in the middle and some kind of locking collar that twists. My Jolida needs the more traditional digital coax that looks like a male RCA, bummer.

Indyaudio2

I checked some photos of the rear of my Dennon AVR2500 - doesn't look like there is anything that will work, but please educate me!

Indyaudio2

Was able to take my Jolida to a friend this weekend. Hooked it up to his Cambridge DAC magic and it sounded great on his system.

Purchased an Arcam rDac today, can't wait to try it out along with all the other possibilities including streaming from my computer library and wireless from the iToys we store music on.

cnh

Looks like you have a solution. As to your Denon. What was that; a Dolby Pro-logic receiver that preceded Digital surround soundtracks? How old is that because there are no toslink or coax inputs back there which means no Dolby Digital or DTS processing, and NO DACs. So you're right, TOO "old". You need something from THIS century or at least the late '90s!

Enjoy!

cnh

Mike Reeter

Doesn't the Dig/Toslink bypass the tube output on the Jolida?

Obsession18

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Doesn't the Dig/Toslink bypass the tube output on the Jolida?

Yes you will be taking the tubes out of the signal path by using the Jolida's digital out, the Jolida now becomes a transport.

Mike Reeter

Obsession18 wrote: »

Yes you will be taking the tubes out of the signal path by using the Jolida's digital out, the Jolida now becomes a transport.

I get that, but if the DAC doesn't have tubes, then what's the purpose :biggrin: