Power Cables

Violator · December 2003

What do they do and how do u hook them up

gidrah · December 2003

Supply power. You plug them into the wall.

F1nut · December 2003

Gold Jerry Gold!!!

Loud & Clear · December 2003

I think I just crapped my pants; fortunately, I'm wearing "oops I crapped my pants" adult diapers.

Dash Riprock · December 2003

check the manual...

and dont stick your finger into the wall

PolkThug · December 2003

Some cable stuff not from me...

I personally feel that power is one of the most key areas to audio. Starting from the power from the wall, to a good line conditioner, to a good power cable and on into a well designed and treated power supply. It seems like a very benign part of the system, but AC power has a HUGE impact on your system. If you think about it, AC power IS actually a 60Hz (plus a whole lot of secondary high frequency wave forms travelling with it) analog signal...

22. Q. Some companies are selling shielded power cables. Are shielded power cables really better?

A. No. This is just another case of marketing hype. Aluminum and or copper shields cannot stop low frequency EMI noise from entering a power cable. We have studied the shielded power cable issue at great length with consistently disappointing results. Each time we shielded a power cable it sounded dark and closed down. Let us consider how electricity moves from its source to your home and through a shielded A.C. cable. Electricity begins at the generator and travels through miles of unshielded cable to get to your home. It enters your home and moves through another 300 feet or so of unshielded home wiring to your room only to have the last six feet of its journey shielded. If it is going to pick up noise it will have done so long before reaching the last six feet of your room! What possible improvement can be gained from shielding the last six feet of miles of unshielded wire?

Not my words..
PolkThug

dcarlson · December 2003

Just curious, who's words are they?

PhantomOG · December 2003

also, going into each of your components, the first thing the AC signal hits is a power supply which converts the AC signal into a DC signal which is what powers all the internals. so buying components with better power supplies might be better than buying expensive power cords??

dcarlson · December 2003

Here we go again...

While that may be true, a replacement of a power cord does make a difference.

If you already have a component with a good power supply, the power cord is only a natural next step.

PhantomOG · December 2003

possibly.

but if i was an engineer at a company that produced quality audio components which had "good" power supplies, i would think that including a power cord which was good enough to produce the best possible perfomance would be a no-brainer, especially considering the low cost of the cord compared to the internals.

combine this with PolkThug's quote and I'm not so sure power cords are even a worthwhile investment

(for me, not as a general statment. you like your power cords, more "power" to ya)

dcarlson · December 2003

My last response is you'll never truely know until you try one....

polkatese · December 2003

I just thought of this, since it looks like there's gonna be a good turnout at the Polk Gathering over at Russ' House of SDAs, perhaps someone attending (I would like to, but I might not be able to differentiate his house and Baby Dolls

) can bring an after market power cord (i.e. Signal's Magic Power) and do a quick DBT, as part of the shootout, against stock cord.

Phantom, since you are in TX, are you goin'?

Early B. · December 2003

I just built my own power cable out of stuff I ordered from partsexpress.com and hooked it up to my Hsu sub. For me, it made a difference. So I went from a cheap 18 ga. stock cable to a thick, hospital grade 12 ga. cable. Call it psychoacoustics or whatever you want, but for about $40 bucks, it was worth it.

The cord I built is essentially the same as this one:

http://www.bettercables.com/betcabpowser.html

PhantomOG · December 2003

I do plan on going but it all depends on how busy work is then.

So the cord you built is approx $40, and it is essentially the same as the cord you linked to which costs $250.

This is exactly why I refuse to pay retail for these "better" cables. Sure there might be some difference in sound in the end, but the companies making these cables are down right ripping people off with the prices.

You spent $40 on parts, a company buying in bulk could probably produce that same cord for less than half of that, and they charge $250????

Either there is just not enough demand for "upgraded" cables, or there is not enough competition to lower prices.

Maybe I should start a company...

F1nut · December 2003

And if you wanted to stay in business your price would probably be $250.00 also. Having a business involves a lot of overhead and the idea of having a business in the first place is to make a PROFIT!

amulford · December 2003

What possible improvement can be gained from shielding the last six feet of miles of unshielded wire?

I have to agree with that statement. I personally believe that higher quality cables do make a difference, but not in the area of actual AC electric transmission.

I have dedicated a 20A circuit back at the box, and have a decent power conditioner to smooth out the voltage fluctuations inherent in commercial electric supply.

Any thing past that is nonsense, sorry. At lower voltages (like signal transfer) it would probably make a difference. But not at 120 volts. That is my opinion.

PhantomOG · December 2003

the only way you would need to mark it up that much would be if there was very little or no demand at all.

you can buy a 1 GHz microprocessor today for less than $50. with the millions of man hours needed to create/design a microprocessor, on top of the billions of dollars needed to build a facility to fabricate it in, talk to me about overhead and tell me that you can't sell that same damn power cord for less than $40 and stay in business.

now if you are saying that not enough people would buy it, that's a different story. but if no one wants to buy it, what does that tell you about the product?

gidrah · December 2003

Originally posted by PhantomOG
talk to me about overhead and tell me that you can't sell that same damn power cord for less than $40 and stay in business.

now if you are saying that not enough people would buy it, that's a different story. but if no one wants to buy it, what does that tell you about the product?

It says nothing about the product per se. What it would most likely say is that the audio community is made up mostly by people that judge quality by price tag. That $40 cable might be identical to a one that costs $100 and another that costs $400. The people that would buy the $400 cable would never buy the $40 cable and wouldn't believe anybody that told them it was any good.

PhantomOG · December 2003

Originally posted by gidrah
It says nothing about the product per se. What it would most likely say is that the audio community is made up mostly by people that judge quality by price tag. That $40 cable might be identical to a one that costs $100 and another that costs $400. The people that would buy the $400 cable would never buy the $40 cable and wouldn't believe anybody that told them it was any good.

and that's probably more true than anything...

F1nut · December 2003

You sir, know nothing about business!

Let's say I can do a job for $100.00 and make a profit of $25.00. Sound good, enough profit for you? Well, why should I when I can charge $500.00 for the job and make a $425.00 profit. My client is happy, I'm happy and the place I spend some of that profit money is happy, etc, etc.

I, like any business owner is in business to make as much money as possible....really very simple.

Now, if I can make $40.00 off of a $50.00 microprocessor and I sell 2 million of them a year.....well, that's some serious cash. On the other hand I seriously doubt that Cable Company A is selling 2 million cables a year, so they have to charge more for their product in order to stay in business.....really very simple.

Early B. · December 2003

For those interested in building their own "audiophile quality" power cable, follow the link below for specific items and instructions. It's simple to do. All you need are scissors (or knife), wire strippers, and a screwdriver. There's no soldering involved. If you want to make it look far more expensive than it is, you a can spend a few extra bucks on some 3/8 inch techflex.

Even if you personally don't hear a difference with the power cable, it'll be fun to make and it looks high tech as hell.

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/110-400.html

dorokusai · December 2003

What possible improvement can be gained from shielding the last six feet of miles of unshielded wire?

Most interference in long line travel occurs in the above ground distances, closer to termination, so the shielding at the end is sensible.....and cost effective.

As far as the, I can DIY a cable that whatever...blah blah blah...some of us just prefer to not give a crap about DIY at some point. I could stick weld my dick to my forehead, but you dont see me building motorcycles or railings for my home. I don't care to do that today, or tomorrow.

DIY is fantastic, how do you think alot of these smaller companies exist....and started?

No amazing theories of cables propagation, inductance or composition, are going to jump out of this forum....YOU find this information, and assemble it in a manner that makes YOU comfortable.

I think I will buy a Cardas Golden Cross Power Cable for my beer can, I guarantee it will taste better or I will die...thus ending ALL arguments.

PhantomOG · December 2003

Originally posted by F1nut
You sir, know nothing about business!

Let's say I can do a job for $100.00 and make a profit of $25.00. Sound good, enough profit for you? Well, why should I when I can charge $500.00 for the job and make a $425.00 profit. My client is happy, I'm happy and the place I spend some of that profit money is happy, etc, etc.

I, like any business owner is in business to make as much money as possible....really very simple.

Now, if I can make $40.00 off of a $50.00 microprocessor and I sell 2 million of them a year.....well, that's some serious cash. On the other hand I seriously doubt that Cable Company A is selling 2 million cables a year, so they have to charge more for their product in order to stay in business.....really very simple.

I don't know anything about business?? Why don't you go back and read my post, re-read your post above, get a dictionary, and learn what the word "DEMAND" means.

F1nut · December 2003

Yep, that's right you don't know crapola about business. You own one? NO, didn't think so.

"but if no one wants to buy it, what does that tell you about the product?"

It's not that people don't want to buy it, it's more like there aren't that many people into the audiophile level of hifi, like you for example. Now, if you were trying to imply the theory of supply and demand, you didn't do a very good job of it.

BTW, you won't find "SUPPLY AND DEMAND in the dictionary. Just wanted to save you the trouble of looking it up.

PhantomOG · December 2003

Originally posted by PhantomOG
the only way you would need to mark it up that much would be if there was very little or no demand at all.

tried to imply? i guess it just went over your head. i'll try to be more clear for you in the future.

from merriam webster:

Demand:

3 a : willingness and ability to purchase a commodity or service b : the quantity of a commodity or service wanted at a specified price and time

I never insulted you. You own a business? Good for you. Want a cookie?? Get off your high horse, I'm not here to argue with you, and there is no need for you to tell me what I do and don't know.

F1nut · December 2003

LOL.....but you're so sure that a cable that costs more than $40.00 to be a rip off that I found your skepticism insulting.

I honestly don't know what the mark up is on a $400.00 cable and I don't care. All I know is that it makes the music on my system sound better and that's the bottom line for me.

Yes, please be more clear in the future and I like pecan chocolate chip cookies.

Olanen · December 2003

22. Q. Some companies are selling shielded power cables. Are shielded power cables really better?

A. No. This is just another case of marketing hype. Aluminum and or copper shields cannot stop low frequency EMI noise from entering a power cable. We have studied the shielded power cable issue at great length with consistently disappointing results. Each time we shielded a power cable it sounded dark and closed down. Let us consider how electricity moves from its source to your home and through a shielded A.C. cable. Electricity begins at the generator and travels through miles of unshielded cable to get to your home. It enters your home and moves through another 300 feet or so of unshielded home wiring to your room only to have the last six feet of its journey shielded. If it is going to pick up noise it will have done so long before reaching the last six feet of your room! What possible improvement can be gained from shielding the last six feet of miles of unshielded wire?

Yes, well said. Expensive power cord doesn't make any difference it is only a waste of money.

so buying components with better power supplies might be better than buying expensive power cords??

This is also a good answer to the question above. oh well
you can do whatever you want anyway it's your money!!!

Frank Z · December 2003

FWIW, The latest issue of Home Theater Magazine has an article about cheap tweeks and one of the suggestions is to use a metal polish to remove oxidation from the blades and pin of a power cord. The guy that wrote the article claims that it made a huge difference, so it may be worth a shot if you don't want to spend an arm and a leg on power cord equiped with noise reducing 10 speed fuel injected windshield wipers.;)

F1nut · December 2003

Originally posted by Olanen
Expensive power cord doesn't make any difference it is only a waste of money.

How many, if any have you tried?

dcarlson · December 2003

I'm still with you F1.

There's just this unwillingness for these guys to open their minds and realize that we're only trying to convey to them our cable experience and for them to give it a try. I guess they're just more concerned about specs and profit margins.

These wise cracks are just the icing on the cake in my mind. :rolleyes:

PolkThug · December 2003

My thoughts.

1. The only way to settle this is with a blind test.
2. If you haven't tried it, it isn't fair to say it doesn't help.
3. Personally I would spend that cash on a "power cleaner" or "voltage stabilizer" instead.
4. God Bless Onkyo for having a non-upgradable power cord.

Amen,
PolkThug

Power Cables

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