Magnepan MMG - thinking of buying...

ambiophonics

I'm looking for feedback on how the MMG sound. I prefer a speaker with fast tight bass, slightly forward mid-range, and accurate but not overly bright highs. The lower octave or two will be handled by a velodyne sealed 10" servo sub so no worries about the lack of low bass from the MMG's.

I use a 24bit 96khz crosstalk cancellation in my 2-channel setup which works best with speakers that behave like flashlights - a very focused and narrow dispersion pattern. Does anybody know how directional the MMG's are? I'm having trouble finding much info about this. Thanks for any input.

falconcry72

They are not like flashlights at all. Maggies are true bipoles, so they put out as much sound to the back as they do to the front. This makes for a very real-to-life presentation. Give them a whirl. Do you have to use your crosstalk thingamajig?

ambiophonics

I can always remove the crosstalk cancellation box, but it makes things sound so much more accurate that I would prefer to use it. I understand the MMG's put out as much sound to the rear as they do the front but would be more concerned about dispersion to the left and right. I was hoping they would be quite focused and could be toed in slightly, aimed right at the listening position.

zingo

The sweet spot will be small with those speakers, but they do create huge overall sound as mentioned above with the bi-pole design and radiating pattern. Do you have the power to drive planars?

ambiophonics

I was going to use my NAD 7175PE to start with, and add the carver TFM-35 if needed. I've heard about others using the NAD power envelope amps with smaller Maggies and having good results.

B Run

Not trying to hijack your thread but i've always wanted to try these as well, maybe in place of my Klipsch in my living room setup. Does anyone have an opinion on if my Nad t752 could adequately drive these?

falconcry72

ambiophonics wrote: »

I was hoping they would be quite focused and could be toed in slightly, aimed right at the listening position.

All Maggies do better toed in. I don't like them toed ALL the way in, but probably like the left speaker aimed 6 inches the left of your head, and the right speaker aimed 6 inches to the right of your head. Maggies have a VERY focused sweet spot while also dispersing a lot of the sound to the left and right. Kind of a best of both worlds, but you gotta spend time to get the perfect placement. They can be laser beams with a lot of toe-in.

ambiophonics

Sounds like they may be what I'm looking for! Now if someone would just buy my DQ-10's and AU-999 we'd be in business.

I'm surprised no owners have chimed in yet - there has got to be someone on the forum that has a pair of the MMG's?

Face

Bought a pair, used them a few times, and sold them.

They sounded ok. But don't expect any deep bass, large dynamics, or easy setup. With the right room and a sub they can sound fantastic though.

falconcry72

Face wrote: »

Bought a pair, used them a few times, and sold them.

They sounded ok. But don't expect any deep bass, large dynamics, or easy setup. With the right room and a sub they can sound fantastic though.

The problem with all Maggies is that they have terrible vertical dispersion... although the have excellent horizontal dispersion. This means that to "get" what Maggies you do, your ear needs to be AT LEAST six inches LOWER than the top of the speaker, but preferably a foot or two lower. With tall Maggies this is easy to achieve, but with the MMG you'd practically have to be sitting on the floor, or have the speakers on some sort of riser, to really hear what you're supposed to hear.

Here's my steadfast advice:

Get the 1.6's.

They are the best bang for the buck in the Magnepan world right now, period. They have MUCH better bass than the MMG's, they're tall enough to avoid the vertical dispersion problem of the MMG's, and they just give you a lot more of that Maggie magic for not much more money. You should be able to find a used pair for 800 bucks. Don't worry about the size. Anywhere you could put an MMG, you could put a 1.6.

I've owned the MG-12's (very similar to the MMG's), the 1.6's, the 1.7's, the 3.6's, and the 3.7's. All awesome, but the 1.6 is a sweet spot for price/performance.

Face

A friend of mine has the 3.7's with a sub, great sounding setup!

mantis

They all sound good but are difficult to drive and do not play loud. They also will require that sub you have or better. depending on the model , they do produce some decent bass.
I'm no fan of them but respect how they sound. I also find them to be extremely ugly. Honestly I'd rather have a good pair of Martin Logans if I was going to go with a panel designed speaker.

falconcry72

mantis wrote: »

...and do not play loud...

??? I've cranked all my Maggies to uncomfortable levels without issue. :cool:

....are difficult to drive...

I've heard as little as a 100WPC Adcom GFA-545 make a larger pair of Maggies sing... both the 1.6's and 3.6's. The MMG's are cake. People get scared of Maggies because they're nominally rated at 4ohms, but if you look at an impedance graph, you'll see that they are incredibly stable at the 4ohm mark, with no lower dips, whereas most "nominally rated 4ohm" speakers will have dips down to 2ohms. Point being, for a 4ohm speaker, they are an easy load. They are not efficient, that's for sure, but generally that means you just have to turn the volume knob up. A decent 100WPC amp like the 545 will drive them no problem.

I'd rather have a good pair of Martin Logans if I was going to go with a panel designed speaker.

Dude, they sound sooo different! Not comparable, IMO. I like Logans a lot, BTW, but it's not practical to lump them into the same category just because they're both flat. The electrostatic transducer used in the Logans has nothing in common with the ribbons and planar driver in the Maggies.

ambiophonics

Hmm - looks like we have some differing experiences...

steveinaz

Ditch the cross-talk doo-hickie, in hi-fi, less is more. If you're a "rocker" you are NOT gonna like the MMG.

tonyb

Ditto what Steve said. Nice sounding but not for all genres of music. Need to augment the lower regions if your a bass head and they are fairly picky on placement. If you can't give them some room to breath, and your room is cluttered with furniture, you won't be happy with these.

zingo

You could also try Martin Logan if you are interested in panels. They are easier to drive than Maggies, and tend to run smaller if space is an issue. Both designs have their merits, and both can sound great when driven and set-up properly.

dromunds

Similar to what Falconcry72 said, I have a pair of 1.4's that I picked up rebuilt for $350 that I enjoy. Good bang for the buck.

ambiophonics

How difficult were those to rebuild? The only used magnepans I've seen local were very old SMG's - the original ones I believe which from what I've read weren't as good as more recent iterations.

dromunds wrote: »

Similar to what Falconcry72 said, I have a pair of 1.4's that I picked up rebuilt for $350 that I enjoy. Good bang for the buck.

falconcry72

ambiophonics wrote: »

...The only used magnepans I've seen local were very old SMG's - the original ones I believe which from what I've read weren't as good as more recent iterations.

Where are you located? Check audiogon.

Face

mantis wrote: »

They all sound good but are difficult to drive and do not play loud. They also will require that sub you have or better. depending on the model , they do produce some decent bass.
I'm no fan of them but respect how they sound. I also find them to be extremely ugly. Honestly I'd rather have a good pair of Martin Logans if I was going to go with a panel designed speaker.

The only Maggie I had an issue with volume was the MMG. The larger Maggies have no trouble playing loud with a good amp.

So you'd rather have a speaker with poor panel/woofer integration over one that sounds better? Are you the one that sets the WAF in your household?

ambiophonics

Hey Steve,

Ditching the crosstalk cancellation would be like running SDA's without the IC - no fun :biggrin:

The crosstalk cancellation box is pretty transparent and runs at 24bit 96khz so it shouldn't get in the way of any but the best HD recordings. It actually goes a few steps further than the analog implementation that SDA's use to cancel crosstalk. It will cancel crosstalk just like SDA's but continues recursively, cancelling the cancellation signal etc, down to null. It really focuses the soundstage, gets rid of weird comb filtering in the mid-bass, and allows the reverb to spread out to the sides where it belongs.

steveinaz wrote: »

Ditch the cross-talk doo-hickie, in hi-fi, less is more. If you're a "rocker" you are NOT gonna like the MMG.

tonyb

Another consideration with the Maggies is if you smoke, have a wood burning fireplace in the room or have cause for high humidity in the room.

ambiophonics

Those are good tips Tony - luckily I'm a non-smoker and the fireplace and humidifier live in the other room.

tonyb

Just throwing that out there my friend. Any speaker with ribbons/panels need some carefull considerations before plunking down the coin. Some panels are more durable than others, but the basics still remain.

11tsteve

just wanted to throw this in just in case it might be of interest to OP... i am not sure if these are worth looking at or not, but it wouldn't be horribly far if its a good deal.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/ele/3560088013.html

ambiophonics

Those look great - I just don't think I could fit them in the car, or in my listening space. I'm glad to see another Iowa Polkie!

11tsteve wrote: »

just wanted to throw this in just in case it might be of interest to OP... i am not sure if these are worth looking at or not, but it wouldn't be horribly far if its a good deal.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/ele/3560088013.html

11tsteve

that's too bad... not even sure if they are desirable or not, but it seems like a reasonable price especially if there is room to negotiate. oh well...


up in Waterloo.... sitting inside for a snow day. gonna make some speaker stands for my Infinitys....

dromunds

Ambiophonics, you asked about how difficult it was to rebuilt the 1.4's. The previous owner sent them in for factory rebuild. I don't think it was outrageous, and they also put on a new sock and new light oak side rails. Unlike some others that I don't find attractive, they're good looking. I would probably go with Falconcry72's advice and save up for a pair of 1.6's. I picked up the 1.4's because they were pretty local and had already been rebuilt and for that price I didn't see how I could go wrong. I like them. I'm certainly no authority, and like Face and TonyB said don't expect deep bass, so since you already have a sub certainly augment it. I'm running them with a little Dodd tube preamp and a vintage S.A.E. amp and I think they sure have some positive qualities. But I can see where others would have different opinions.

Timothy Smith

I owned a set of MMG for a few years. They really needed 200wpc, a good musical sub that could integrate, and lots of fiddling with stands, locations, angles, to sound good.

They ended up sounding incredibly clear. I noticed details in music that I had never noticed before after hundreds of previous listens. They did lack the midrange "slam" of Polk, A/D/S, Dahlquist, and some other good conventional dynamic speakers.

The one thing that was most frustrating is that they sounded absolutely great in one sitting position on the couch, but if I moved (literally) one foot to the left, or one foot to the right on the couch, the "magic" collapsed.

I auditioned some 1.7's and found the same problem, though not quite as bad

Sold the MMG's a few years ago, and guess what: I want to try some Maggies again.

ambiophonics

Update:

So I finally sold my DQ-10's the other day and then almost immediately found a pair of used MMG's "local" ... Is 4.5 hours one way local? Well since they were about 1/3 the price if new I went for it. As they were located very near he Magnepan factory I swung by and picked up an original shipping carton also. The shipping guy actually made one special for me and then put my speakers back on the pack line and boxed them up for me! All in all it was a fun day.

I got them setup last night and with some tweaking (a lot of tweaking) they are starting to sound very nice and open. My NAD 7175PE seems to have plenty of power to drive them, in fact they bottom out before it runs out of steam. They integrate nicely with the Velodyne servo sub and work well with the crosstalk box.

I will have to give them a few weeks to really decide if I like them long term, but so far I'm a happy camper.