Great wire discussion!

PhantomOG

actually I was somewhat surprised at how civil the discussion has been to this point (at least compared to most threads on this forum regarding controversial subjects).

while I agree with the statements basically stating you can't say it doesn't improve the quality without actually trying it first, i simply don't find this an adequate reason to go out and spend thousands of dollars demo-ing exotic cables.

when i decide to spend more money "upgrading" anything i own, i want to know in plain and simple terms exactly what makes the upgrade truly an "upgrade". without any proof or valid explanation as to why brand A is better than brand B, only user reviews stating "it JUST IS better" does not inspire my confidence. never underestimate the power of suggestion/denial. if any part of you at all believes that one thing should be better than another, what you hear cannot be trusted at all unless your are doing a completely blind test. even then, i would further say you should be able to complete the blind test repeatedly in order to be completely sure.

with all of this talk about how "different" the cables make things sound, i wonder if just because something may sound "better" to you, does it mean it necessarily is truly what was intended to be heard in the original recording?

the purpose of any cable is to, as accurately as possible, recreate the source voltage signal at the other end of the cable. why have i not found any simple graphs showing how an expensive cable more closely follows a source voltage at the cable end versus a cheap cable? if these graphs are out there, they need to be publicized more, because that is the sort of thing that would convince me to actually try them.

dcarlson

I don't think anyone's pissed, if they are it's of there own choosing.

I felt I needed voice the pro-cable side of the coin. Seeing that I used to be very skeptical of the benefits and have had the opportunity try out a few cables for myself with literally astonishing results. Specifically my powercord exploits.

If I had a chance, I would be most willing to do a blind test and give my opinions. I think it would be a fun and interesting thing to do as well. Like a blind beer test. Do you really know which is your favorite?

There most likely won't be a difference between entry level Monster and AR.

I hope Emlyn comes back with some insight once he's been able to try the Hero's. No pressure though.

One thing to keep in mind, a $1000 interconnect isn't going to make a $50 CD player sound better.

dcarlson

There really is no harm in trying. Is there?

RuSsMaN

You guys are an effin RIOT!

PhantomOG

Originally posted by dcarlson
There really is no harm in trying. Is there?

absolutely not. if somehow a box of exotic cables showed up at my front door tomorrow morning i would be very happy to try them out and see the results.

but that's not going to happen, is it? in order for me to try them i have to go out of my way, put MY money down and spend MY time getting them. if i'm going to do all of that, you better believe no matter what product you are pitching, you better list some good reasons as to why it is worth my time and money. and user reviews saying "it just IS better" does not cut it for me. it might for you, it might for everyone else in the world for all i care, but for me, it doesn't cut it.

trying them is simply a matter of capitalism in my book. you want my money? you have to make at least SOME valid arguments before I'll hand any over. it doesn't work the other way around. you don't get my money first and then prove your point. you tell me why first, and then I'll decide if its worth my time and money.

call me crazy, but that's just the way I operate. and I doubt that I'm the only person in the whole world who thinks that way.

F1nut

Russ, is that all you've got??? Cause if that's it, you got nothing:D

pjdami

I felt I needed voice the pro-cable side of the coin. Seeing that I used to be very skeptical of the benefits and have had the opportunity try out a few cables for myself with literally astonishing results. Specifically my powercord exploits.

I'm with you dcarlson all the way! I have tried out 5 different types of interconnects in the past six months. Mostly $50 and below and then a couple around $150 / pair (heros).

I am a firm believer in wire. Last year though I would have said different. Why?? because I never ventured on this path and never tried for myself.

The sonic differences with the higher priced ICs is that I find less "smearing" of the instruments together. Instead more pinpoint placement of instruments. Distinct sounds coming from seperate areas in space. More separation is I guess the word I'm looking for. After dumping a few hundred in some better wire, believe me, I wasn't about to spend more on this stuff if it was BS sounding to me.

No blind test for me but A/B with two identical cd players on the same exact amplification.

Now, I'm not saying that I would spend $600 on just speaker wire for $1,000 speakers, but I would spend about $200 for those wires in a heartbeat.

I have also found that if one has "brighter" sounding speakers like the RTs or Paradigms that I have owned, then it makes less difference. Still sounds "bright" for my musical taste. Almost like the speakers natural character overpowers everything else that one may try to accomplish with wire. The old forum cliche here, "your mileage may vary."

Its all good though. Whether it matters to one individual or another, one has to experiment around to find out and draw a conclusion for oneself. That is the real purpose here is to gather thoughts, impressions, ideas for those of us that want to try new things out.

Wire can get ridiculously expensive. But I believe that there is the right wire for everyone's budget and needs out there.

Cool how the wire thing comes around every couple of months.

My humble and modest opinion of course.

Peace

RuSsMaN

Jesse, I leave the wire discussion with these words of wisdom:

"different strokes...different folk's.........
I like apples....you like pears......
in the end there can be only one................
In my end there is all who comes......"



Cheers,
Russ



orig quote here

Loud & Clear

It sounds as though some are suggesting that these signal transfer wires are capable of acting as repeaters or amplifiers, that they can reshape an attenuated signal and restore it's virtue. But even more than that, people are suggesting that they can expand upon the signal, make the signal *more* and *better* than what the source passed to the interconnect.

Well, it's really no wonder they cost thousands of dollars, they're **** magic! Who makes these exotic wires, Gandolph The Grey/White?

Pardon me, please, I'm chugging human growth hormone and wine tonight. I'm out of control.

Oh, and I would be remiss were I not to give a shout-out to Mantis for that enchanting rune; had I seen that prior to posting in this thread, well, I wouldn't have posted in this thread. That piece helped me to find my center.

F1nut

All that...and more from someone who uses something other than the little patch cord that came with his gear! You still haven't answered my question, does your $80.00 IC sound better than a stock patch cord???

pjdami

There is a lot of science and tangible things that can be incorporated /measured in wire design. Its not "magic". Ability to reduce interference is key and shielded cables is very important, changing resistance, the way the current flows, etc.

Analysis-plus is a company with electrical engineers designing their cables. They have some good reading here. How about some electromagnetic computer simulation:

Analysis-Plus

bikezappa

I can't stand it any longer and must chime in.

Hbomb has it right from an engineering point. In audio we are dealing with DC circuits here, low frequebcy.

But you still may want to try different interconnects from a store if you can do it for free. What is the down side-lost time?

My question: What type of wire is in the speaker and cross over? This wire will effact the sound just like the speaker wire. What type of wire is in the power and preamp? Why not solder the interconnects to the preamp and power amp?

The wire in my SDA SRS looks like the wire at HD. Am I wrong or is it silver or gold?

The only wire that could make a audio difference IMHO is the wire in the tone arm. Must be small so as not to add mass and conduct a very low voltage signal.

Its mostly about Ohms law. The impedance and phase shift of these circuits just doesn't change very must at these frequencys.

TroyD

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Jesse, I leave the wire discussion with these words of wisdom:

"different strokes...different folk's.........
I like apples....you like pears......
in the end there can be only one................
In my end there is all who comes......"

Ahhhhhh, CLASSIC HK Fooey at his best. I still haven't a clue as to what it means though. Although I do like pears. In the end if there can be only one though, give me peaches.

Wire? If you hear it, fine. If you don't? Fine.

Take cables from four different manufacturer's at a particular price point and I'll still say that the differences are negligeable.


BDT

dcarlson

In the end, if you've never gone down the cable route, it's up to you whether you want to or not.

Take 4 cables from the same manufacturer at 4 different price points and I think the results between the least and most expensive could potentially be very dramatic. Step by step the results may be more subtle.

Troy, I can't recall, was it you that came up with the quote: People who don't know, don't know they don't know.

I love that one.

Loud & Clear

Originally posted by F1nut
All that...and more from someone who uses something other than the little patch cord that came with his gear! You still haven't answered my question, does your $80.00 IC sound better than a stock patch cord???

Yes, the $80.00 IC sounds better than the patch cord you get with standard electronics these days. Solid conducter with solid connecter is a good thing. Once you've achieved that, I can't imagine what *more* you can hope to accomplish. I can't imagine the transfer wire is going to build upon the source's signal.

I'm probably being an **** so I'm out of this.

organ

I just started a new cable company called Ultimate Cable. At the moment we're building IC's for hi-fi systems. Price starts at an amazingly low price of $1500 to $25000 for our top model.

All conductors are made up of 99.99999999999999995% copper. All cables are built in-house in our large dust-free environment by young and beautiful virgin girls. We believe that non-virgins may introduce premature oxydation on our conductors when contact is made with their "unpure" hands.
The shielding is designed and built by engineers from NASA and then x-rayed to make sure the inner conductor fits in the shield properly without trapped air.

The unfinished cables are then taken to a controlled room with an air pressure of 2.5 psi where soldering of the male RCA jack is performed. Our RCA jacks are of the best quality out there. At exactly 2 days, 3hrs, 25mins, and 15.25 seconds after completion, the tips of the RCA jacks are dipped in holy water to preserve its purity.

All cables are shipped in an air-tight container made to survive a an explosion.

If you're interested please contact me and I will tell you the exact time we start building your cables and the exact time you will receive the package. As a bonus, you will also receive pictures of the beautiful ladies who built YOUR cables.



J/K:D


OK....I can hear a difference between my Monster and XLO. I can't say I like one more than the other. They're just different. The XLO have a very crisp sound and great HF extension while the Monster sounds smoother with a little more bass. I'd like to try out some expensive cables but I just don't have the cash. When buying cables I just make sure the build quality is good and the cables are shielded.

Maurice

dcarlson

If you can hear the difference between the 2, that only means those 2 sound different. Try some other cables and you'll eventually find the cables that match with you system.

They're not cheap, but they're cheaper than new speakers.

organ

The ones I can get here are Ultralink, Monster, XLO, and a few other ones. Most are in the same same class and I still haven't found a dealer carrying exotic cables. I'd really like to check out the construction on those. I'd like to try out a power cord on my ASL when I get some money.

Hey man, I'm getting those Klipsch on Wednesday:D. I think I'm going to try out the RF-35. Two 8" woofers and a horn tweeter in each speaker and the 8-Ohms 98db/w/m should make my Dyna amp very happy. I've got the 800i's back up again and it sounds more tubey than the LSi9. I'm sure this is a result of the imp and sensitivity of the speakers.

Maurice