RTi A7 in HT setup perfomance problems

apoteker

I just set up my HT with RTi A7s for the mains, Csi A6 for the center, FXiA6 for surrounds, and had some OWM 3s that I had for the back surrounds. I'm using a HSU VTF3 Mk 4 for the sub and an Onkyo 709 for the receiver. My problem is that, in my opinion, the sound is underwhelming. I was expecting much more from this setup but I feel that I really have to crank up the volume but even then it's not that impressive. Does anyone have any experience with this receiver and speaker combo and can anyone offer any advice as to what I might be able to tweak? Thanks in advance for any replies.

rpf65

I think you need a little more power going to the A'7s. You seem to be asking that AVR to do a lot of work.

EndersShadow

Did you run Audyssey? If not your not going to get the best sound at all. Some additional info and pics would be even more helpful.

How big is your room, how is the furniture laid out, etc.

EndersShadow

Hey didnt notice your in Indy! Awesome man, I am in Zionsville so pretty darned closed

B Run

+1 on checking Audyssey and your crossover settings, but 7 channels is too much for that receiver to drive. I'd get a 3 channel amp since you have preouts and you'll be very happy with your setup.

apoteker

EndersShadow wrote: »

Hey didnt notice your in Indy! Awesome man, I am in Zionsville so pretty darned closed

Small world! I'm on the opposite end of town in Greenwood. I ran Audyssey once but I think I'll run it again to see if anything changes. The room is small, 15x15, with a riser and two rows of seating. From other comments, it sounds like I should start looking for an amp to drive the L,C,R speakers.

B Run

That'd be your best bet, are your speakers set to small and crossovers at 80hz? That's a good baseline to start and adding an amp will be a nice improvement, your avr can handle the surrounds just fine.

PubFiction

Dont try to push it, when ever I hear this I think under powered receiver and someone is pushing into clipping territory. You can ruin your speakers if you push them. I suggest if you are going to keep using them unhook everything except maybe 2 speakers.

Right now alot of people on a budget are getting emotiva amps. XPA-3 would cover your LCR, XPA-5 is a better value though I think. Also sometimes you can find good deals on ATI amps at classic audio parts. AT1805 for around 1100.

jbooker82

Also do you have dynamic eq on? What about the dynamic volume? Dynamic volume boosts the voices. Both of these settings are accessible by pressing the home button, then under the audio section.

apoteker

PubFiction wrote: »

Dont try to push it, when ever I hear this I think under powered receiver and someone is pushing into clipping territory. You can ruin your speakers if you push them. I suggest if you are going to keep using them unhook everything except maybe 2 speakers.

Would I need to disconnect if I don't crank up the sound? Right now the loudest I have played the receiver is -20db but usually around -25.

EndersShadow

apoteker wrote: »

Small world! I'm on the opposite end of town in Greenwood. I ran Audyssey once but I think I'll run it again to see if anything changes. The room is small, 15x15, with a riser and two rows of seating. From other comments, it sounds like I should start looking for an amp to drive the L,C,R speakers.

Too many speakers could be the problem, but I have a feeling its something else myself. Please list what the 709 sets all your speakers at crossover wise and also if possible put some pics up, that will be the most helpful thing of all.

tonyb

You don't need an amp with that subwoofer in the mix. The problem is in your settings on the receiver and/or sub. Running the auto calibration, the mic has to be at ear level in your listening position. That might entail stacking books, pillows, on your couch to get it there. Also the house needs to be very quiet as other sounds will throw it off. Once thats done, you still may need to tweek some settings, like speaker levels ,crossover, small or large,to get the sound you like.

Lietuvis91

Going from 5.1 to 7.1 on the onkyo 608 really diminished sound quality, I can't imagine the 717 has a much improved amp section over the 608, so I understand what you're hearing. The guys here are right in that the first check is your settings. Try setting all speakers to small with 80hz or 100hz cross over points and try to blend the sub to fill in the rest. I think I even ran my setup at 120hz on the 608 which sounded the best to me for movies, however, it gets harder to blend in the 12 inch sub with a higher cross over point.

EndersShadow

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

Going from 5.1 to 7.1 on the onkyo 608 really diminished sound quality, I can't imagine the 717 has a much improved amp section over the 608, so I understand what you're hearing. The guys here are right in that the first check is your settings. Try setting all speakers to small with 80hz or 100hz cross over points and try to blend the sub to fill in the rest. I think I even ran my setup at 120hz on the 608 which sounded the best to me for movies, however, it gets harder to blend in the 12 inch sub with a higher cross over point.

He's got the 709 which has a pretty decently beefy amp section (compared to this years models) so I think its more than likely either a setting, or configuration issue. I do agree going 7.1 will be a bit of a stress, but his rear surrounds are by no means speakers that need tons of power, nor are his side surrounds.

I do agree getting a 3 channel amp (for his front three) or even 2 channel (for the RTi 7's alone) would be of benefit, but I am not willing to just defautly chaulk it up to that.

I have a sneaky suspicion (like you pointed out) that Audyssey set his speakers to full range (like it did with ALL my LSi's) and changing that to 80 hz all around might make the difference he's looking for.

27dnast

You say your room is square... 15X15...

Square rooms aren't great when going for good bass response. I would look into the REW software over at Home Theater Shack and take some measurements... See what's going on.

tommyt21

I agree could be bad settings and bad room acoustics. what are the surfaces of your room like. I have found room treatments to help sound tremendously i have more panels coming today as i type...

Tornado Red

Might also check your wiring awg, to make sure it's beefy enough and your connections are good....just a thought.

ken brydson

Tornado Red wrote: »

Might also check your wiring awg, to make sure it's beefy enough and your connections are good....just a thought.

And in phase...

EndersShadow

Basically posting some pics will answer all the questions above .....

If you want to do REW I have I think everything needed to do it given to me by another forum member. I never got around to trying it on my setup (maybe I will do that Thurs while the wife is out)....

sagasa

I think you need more power to run your speakers. I have the Rti12 and they sound really good when i drive it with Emotiva XPA 2 and 5.

EndersShadow

So here are some numbers for you. Now these numbers come from measurements done on the 609 by hometheatershack (here) but the 709 should be similar. Once again I dont think its outright he needs a dedicated amp, however removing 2 channels may well help.

HT Labs Measures
Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 81.0 watts
1% distortion at 95.1 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 77.7 watts
1% distortion at 88.9 watts

So with all 7 channels driven to full load your still getting a min of 77.7 watts which should be enough to make it sound quite nice. WIth 5 channels driven to full load your looking at at least 81 watts min.

Again I have a 125x5 channel amp as well as a 7 channel AVR. I used both on a full Monitor 60, CS2, Monitor 40 setup and didnt notice tons of difference between my dedicated amp and the AVR powering them. My AVR is an Integra which is just a higher end Onkyo and I was using those speakers in a rooms that were 17x17 (open to a 9x9 dining room) as well as a room that was 16x14 (open to a 12x9 dining room) and had no issues with volume....

apoteker

Thanks to all for the replies! I will run Audyssey again and then check the settings late tonight. I'll post results with pictures to see if the problem can be pinpointed from that. Thanks again to everyone for helping me out.

PrazVT

Here's my experience w/ the A7s and different receivers / amps; in chronological order.

Yamaha RX-V663: 95wpc, a little bright, but good.
Denon AVR-3311: 125wpc, better tone, slight improvement in dynamics / bass
Parasound 2250: 250wpc / 45a, this is where I learned what the A7s were capable of. Better dynamics, BASS, imaging
Parasound Halo A21: see above, but more refined
Pioneer SC-57: 140wpc, gets you somewhere between between the Denon 3311 and Parasound 2250.
NAD M-25: 160wpc, Similar to the Parasounds, but a little more neutral and detailed.

My conclusion ...until you get to the Pioneer SC class receivers, there's not much improvement. The A7s have some potential, but it takes a good amount of power to get there (at least in my experience).

It's just my 2 cents .. and I think it's more about how beefy each receiver/amp was (ie. not just wattage).

PubFiction

I think the RTiA7 can chew through alot more power than a polk monitor 60. When people say they have to turn something way up to get anything that is usually a big sign they dont have enough power. Note that the efficiency of the monitors are 2DB higher than Rti so we know the RTi can eat more power for the same sound level. Normally you want to exhaust all options but you don't want to damage speakers. Give them power and dont push them till you have that power.

jbooker82

If you just ran audyssey and left it alone it probably set the towers to 40hz. Wich would cause little out put from the sub. Bump the setting up to 70-80hz and see what you think.

apoteker

Thanks again to everyone for their help. I re-ran Audyssey tonight and here are the results of my Audyssey setup.

apoteker

Tornado Red wrote: »

Might also check your wiring awg, to make sure it's beefy enough and your connections are good....just a thought.

Used 12 gauge speaker wire for all speakers. I just did all the connections and I think they are good as well. Thanks!

apoteker

tommyt21 wrote: »

I agree could be bad settings and bad room acoustics. what are the surfaces of your room like. I have found room treatments to help sound tremendously i have more panels coming today as i type...

I just finished the room and it is just drywall for now with carpeting and one sofa in the room. Adding another sofa for the riser this weekend. As I said, it is a small theater with a 106 inch screen and roughly 15x15.

apoteker

I notice that many have recommended setting the speakers to small but I see no such option in the menus for the 709. Can anyone tell me where that setting might be? Thanks!

ken brydson

Gonna be a VERY cool room. Jealous....

tommyt21

Dont toe the A7s they need to be flat. also look up first reflections get some panels up in that awsome room. Also get that center channel on a riser and off the floor.