New B&W CM9s not sounding so good

friggy

A few weeks ago we picked up some CM9s after hearing them at BB, sounded fantastic at BB but not very good at home at any volume. I listened to them using a Marantz6007, and liked so much I bought the Marantz and that's what they hooked up to at home, also an EMO xpa5. I have not run audyessey yet as I am waiting for the cm1s to arrive, could this make that much of a difference? ??Is there a specific way to break speakers in? The RTi10s after adding the amp sounded very good, lively, these are kind of dull.
Thanks for any thoughts, Ken.

Erik Tracy

So, are the CM9s being powered by the Marantz or the Emotiva?

Could be the CM9s need some breakin time.

Could be you need to run Audessey.

What was the source component used at BB?

And how was it connected? Analog? HDMI?

What about your BDP50?

friggy

They are hooked up to Marantz 6007 and the amp, they were also hooked ip to a Marantz 6007 at the store, not sure how they were hooked up nut was told there was no amp but they were bi amped. Not sure what player they were using. I actually use an old Sony CD player, the wife likes to have multiple disc playing.

Erik Tracy

So you are using the pre outs from the Marantz to the Emotiva and using that to drive the CM9s.

And you are using an older Sony CD player.

I'd try using your Panasonic BDP 50 as the player - try connecting it with both the analog outputs and the HDMI to your Marantz.

friggy

Thanks I'll give that a try.

Erik Tracy

Just to be totally clear so we all understand.

When you say that the CM9s are hooked up to BOTH your Marantz and Emotiva -what *exactly* does that mean?

Are you bi-wiring the CM9s from the Marantz speaker outputs AND the Emotiva?

treitz3

Have you verified that all of the drivers [specifically the tweeters] are working in the new speakers?

Tom

friggy

I used the Marantz pre outs to the amp and amp to the speakers. I will double check th'at everything is working and my cables are hooked up properly. Maybe I'll go ahead and run audyessey and see if that does the trick.

mantis

All B&W speakers need at least 80 hours of play time before they sound right. We use to open them before we took them out to customers houses and let them play in the store for a few days. This really made a huge difference.

To break your speakers in properly , play low level music around the clock. Let them play all night on repeat on your cd player.
Suggestions ,
Get rid of the 6007 and the Xpa5. If you really like the sound of the marantz , take the money you got from the sale and buy the flagship 7007. It has more power which the CM9's need to sound good. I know nothing of the Emotiva sound but know exactly how the marantz receivers sound and you should at least have a pleasing sound. The Cm9's are remarkable speakers , I would own them myself. I feel in love with them when I listened to them on Rotel Class D amps. They sounded so balanced and true.

Checks , Look at your speaker runs , I bet one or both speakers are out of phase.

Face

Do you have the Audessy program from your previous speakers still in there? If so, either disable it, or run it again with the new speakers.

Even if you had the same gear as the dealer, the room itself can make a substantial difference on how a pair of speakers sound.

F1nut

They are B&W's, they aren't suppose to sound good.

tonyb

After checking your connections, run the calibration but make sure the house is quiet and the mic is at ear level in your listening position. If it still doesn't sound right, go back into the receivers menu and see where it set your speaker levels to, distance, crossover if you have a sub, small or large, etc. Adjust those levels if need be.

Also, pairing up certain gear is just as important as the gear itself. B&W speakers tend to be a little hot on top, and Emo tends to be a tad bright, not that great of a match up imho but still should sound way better than what you describe. What cables are you using for interconnects and speakers ?

mantis

F1nut wrote: »

They are B&W's, they aren't suppose to sound good.

All kidding aside , thats not cool dude.

friggy

I've had them set up for a 2 weeks now but mostly been regular tv, probably only 4 to 5 hrs of music. So maybe they just need some time. I do like the 6007, from what I could decifer the only difference between it and the 7007 was the power. I knew I wanted to try an amp so power wasn't a really big deal for me. The amp was purchased to be used with Polk RTi10's, and used mostly for home theater, but when the wife heard the B&W's she wanted them and who am I to stop her! I have heard that the Emo and B&W's were not the best match, I will be looking into some different amps in the near future. My interconnects are Monsters and I'm using 12 ga. speaker wire. I will check everything tomorrow and run audyessey....hopefully that will help.

So I've asked this before but for the Polks not the B&W's.....what are some amps that pair with B&W's well. Rotel as mentioned above is 1, what others.

Again thanks for all your help gentlemen it is appreciated! Thanks F1Nut now you have me feeling inadequate!

ViperZ

F1nut wrote: »

They are B&W's, they aren't suppose to sound good.

Sounds like someone just *needs* to give their one cent into every thread.

OP, mantis had a great suggestion. If breaking them in still doesn't sound right, get rid of Emo and get a different sounding amp. I listened to my speakers with Rotel and Linn amps in the store, and they sounded amazing. Couldn't afford Linn, so went with Rotel and couldn't be happier.

Face

I didn't know you've had them in use for 2 weeks. Possibly, you just don't like them. What is their return policy?

friggy

I still have a few weeks if I need to return them....I think that they'll be ok-I really liked them in the store and this is when they were playing out in the wide open store. I've got to have something amiss, I'm off tomorrow and my goal is to see whats what.

Face

Just because they sounded nice in an acoustic nightmare of a showroom doesn't mean they'll sound nice at home too.

pearsall001

friggy wrote: »

I still have a few weeks if I need to return them....I think that they'll be ok-I really liked them in the store and this is when they were playing out in the wide open store. I've got to have something amiss, I'm off tomorrow and my goal is to see whats what.

I would venture to say that something is definitely amis. They are excellent sounding speakers & if you really liked them in the store & you get them home & now they sound completely different then by all means check all variables. It's normal for speakers to sound different in different settings but not the way you're describing it. And in the end if you can't get that magic back than possibly they aren't to your likening. I seriously doubt that though.

Geoff4rfc

Yeah, that's pretty surprising! Everytime I've heard the 9's, they were pretty awesome, very detailed

mantis

friggy wrote: »

I've had them set up for a 2 weeks now but mostly been regular tv, probably only 4 to 5 hrs of music. So maybe they just need some time. I do like the 6007, from what I could decifer the only difference between it and the 7007 was the power. I knew I wanted to try an amp so power wasn't a really big deal for me. The amp was purchased to be used with Polk RTi10's, and used mostly for home theater, but when the wife heard the B&W's she wanted them and who am I to stop her! I have heard that the Emo and B&W's were not the best match, I will be looking into some different amps in the near future. My interconnects are Monsters and I'm using 12 ga. speaker wire. I will check everything tomorrow and run audyessey....hopefully that will help.

So I've asked this before but for the Polks not the B&W's.....what are some amps that pair with B&W's well. Rotel as mentioned above is 1, what others.

Again thanks for all your help gentlemen it is appreciated! Thanks F1Nut now you have me feeling inadequate!

B&W speakers are a double edged sword. Reason- they reveal everything in your system good or bad.
Rotel makes excellent amps that sound amazing with B&W speakers.NAD also makes great amps , very warm and natural sounding. From what I read , Emotiva amps tend to be bright , I don't know for sure as I have yet to listen to one but if thats true then get rid of it.

Obsession18

I listened to them recently at BB, initially the rep was running the matching subwoofer, when I ask him to kill the sub I was really disappointed with the bottom end. The specs say the -3db cutoff is 56 Hz which may be the issue you’re having if they were running the sub when you auditioned them. The mids and highs were fine, but I expect better bass for a $3000 pair of speakers.

tonyb

mantis wrote: »

B&W speakers are a double edged sword. Reason- they reveal everything in your system good or bad.
.

Agreed with Dan, which is why everything else comes into play. Are you using the Panny bdp to spin cd's ? What cables are you using for interconnects and speakers ? The combination of break in period and source/cables may be the ticket other than the amp. Also go over your settings, crossover, small or large, speaker levels/distance.....how much clearance from the back and side walls do you have ? When moving up the chain to better speakers, one must also consider better quality electronics and cables.

friggy

I believe my problem was in the speaker settings, the mains were set to small and 80Hz and the sub for some reason was unplugged, wife must've done it when she was vacuuming! I set the mains to large which I believe is full band width and it's sounding much better. Still need to run audyessey today and see what settings it comes up with. Forgive my lack of knowledge but I'm sure after running audyessey it will set the speakers to small for TV and movies, when listening to music will I have to switch these back to large or will the receiver, Marantz 6007, take care of that for me? All my wiring was correct.

I'm using an old Sony cd player for music, the wife has to have a multiple disc player. This is hooked up via optical cable. Would like to upgrade but the wife insists on a multiple disc player and I have not found one that's a better option only newer.

I'm still looking at a different amp, anyone have any idea about a Parasound/B&W match?

Again, thanks for the help, Ken

tonyb

Friggy, cool man now we are getting somewhere. In your receivers menu, you have to setup each input, tv, cd, dvd, as so forth. Once you setup each input, you can then change inputs on the fly and the receiver should make any adjustment associated with that input.

Now as far as the wife goes, I hear ya, pleasing the wife doesn't always coincide with your intentions. Same boat for me, but let me offer you a suggestion. This suggestion has pleased my wife to no bounds, made my life easier, and my guests happy too while giving me more options for expansion. Get yourself a Sonos, download all your cd's on your computer and stream. Read up on them, the wife factor is off the charts and will put you in her good graces for many moons to come.

friggy

I will check that out....thanks Tonyb

pearsall001

friggy wrote: »

I believe my problem was in the speaker settings, the mains were set to small and 80Hz and the sub for some reason was unplugged, wife must've done it when she was vacuuming! I set the mains to large which I believe is full band width and it's sounding much better. Still need to run audyessey today and see what settings it comes up with. Forgive my lack of knowledge but I'm sure after running audyessey it will set the speakers to small for TV and movies, when listening to music will I have to switch these back to large or will the receiver, Marantz 6007, take care of that for me? All my wiring was correct.

I'm using an old Sony cd player for music, the wife has to have a multiple disc player. This is hooked up via optical cable. Would like to upgrade but the wife insists on a multiple disc player and I have not found one that's a better option only newer.

I'm still looking at a different amp, anyone have any idea about a Parasound/B&W match?

Again, thanks for the help, Ken

That'll do it. Glad you're on your way to getting things back to normal. You know you have an excellent sub & I would suggest setting all speakers to small with a 80Hz XO. Those CM9's would sing for you. Also your AVR should have a settung (usually called Direct, Pure Direct) that completely bypass's the sub setting & will send a full range signal to the mains. Now you can listen to your system both ways & then make a decision on which direction to go. My money is on the small/80Hz setting.

cnh

friggy wrote: »

A few weeks ago we picked up some CM9s after hearing them at BB, sounded fantastic at BB but not very good at home at any volume. I listened to them using a Marantz6007, and liked so much I bought the Marantz and that's what they hooked up to at home, also an EMO xpa5. I have not run audyessey yet as I am waiting for the cm1s to arrive, could this make that much of a difference? ??Is there a specific way to break speakers in? The RTi10s after adding the amp sounded very good, lively, these are kind of dull.
Thanks for any thoughts, Ken.

Let me get this straight. You're saying that a pair of B&Ws are 'KIND OF DULL' and you have them hooked up to an Emotiva as the power amp???

Then there IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING NOT RIGHT in the way you're running things. B&Ws should "never" sound dull being run by something like an Emotiva which is quite bright and forward! In fact, it should be quite the "opposite"!

cnh

treitz3

Hello, cnh. That's why I was thinking that the tweeters may have an issue somewhere along the chain. Still have yet to hear back any verification of this from the OP. There is one way to verify that will take less than one minute. All friggy has to do is play something and walk over to each speaker, take an empty toilet roll or paper towel roll and place one end of the roll toward the tweeter [being careful not to touch it or damage it]. Place his ear to the other end. If the sound emanating from the tweeter has the same volume level as the other drivers [albeit a higher frequency], then they are in theory working correctly. If not, then there is an issue somewhere upstream from the tweeter(s). Maybe he will chime in to verify that these are in fact not the issue here.

Tom

friggy

Many of you told me that the emo was bright but I bought it to go with some RTi10's and basically for movies, but when I showed the wife the CM9's she threw curveball and said I want them! I will be looking for an amp to replace soon, or I may go with a 2 channel for the fronts and use the emo for the rest.

Pearsall001, I am studying the manual now as before I just kind of glanced thru it....probably should read it more before asking so many questions. I've been playing music via the cd player all morning and the sound is much much better! Still need to run audyessey but it's not looking good for today but at least the music sounds good.

cnh

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello, cnh. That's why I was thinking that the tweeters may have an issue somewhere along the chain. Still have yet to hear back any verification of this from the OP. There is one way to verify that will take less than one minute. All friggy has to do is play something and walk over to each speaker, take an empty toilet roll or paper towel roll and place one end of the roll toward the tweeter [being careful not to touch it or damage it]. Place his ear to the other end. If the sound emanating from the tweeter has the same volume level as the other drivers [albeit a higher frequency], then they are in theory working correctly. If not, then there is an issue somewhere upstream from the tweeter(s). Maybe he will chime in to verify that these are in fact not the issue here.

Tom

I think you're on to something Tom.

To friggy. Get that Marantz into whatever is the equivalent of DIRECT or PURE AUDIO mode. Slap a CD in the player and listen to "all" your drivers. If the B&Ws have dual terminals and jumpers. Make sure "everything" is screwed down tight and making "contact".

If you play a CD in the "Direct" mode it will bypass all the processing and we should hear what is there only--unaffected by any audio "settings".

cnh