Just TLed my SDA 1Bs

bigaltx24

Well I finally took the plunge, ordered RDO198s and a couple of 5.6uf Clarity Caps right before Christmas. The weather was crappy today, so I decided to go ahead and install them. The install went off without a hitch and I was able to get about three solid hours of listening time in this afternoon. All I can say is wow, this mod takes these speakers to a whole different level. The smoothness and detail of the RDO198s puts the SL2000s to shame, and the caps aren't even broken in yet. I really should have done this mod a long time ago.

brgman

Congratulations!
You're just getting started.Let those puppies burn in awhile.
Then get some rings,dynamat,epoxy and tighten 'em up.

tophatjohnny

Congrats! I am looking forward to the day I get this done to my 1B's...now that I have a decent amp to make them sing!

PolkMaster1

Congrats on your successful upgrade. You may also want to think about replacing your binding posts with Cardas CCGR.

What version of Clarity Caps did you get?

PolkMaster1

tophatjohnny wrote: »

Congrats! I am looking forward to the day I get this done to my 1B's...now that I have a decent amp to make them sing!

Dont wait. The sooner the better. The tweeter upgrade alone will have amazing benfits right out of the box and will take less than 30 minutes to complete!

michael1947

Just what does "TL" mean? When you replaced the caps did you just start looking around and replace the old with new. Got any pictures, I'm thinking I would like to do some of this stuff. Thanks

PolkMaster1

michael1947 wrote: »

Just what does "TL" mean? When you replaced the caps did you just start looking around and replace the old with new. Got any pictures, I'm thinking I would like to do some of this stuff. Thanks

TL means Tri-Laminate which is specific to the tweeters. TLs are replacement tweeters for certian speakers. The improvement they offer is well worth the investment.

You may want to contact Polks customer service to see if a Tri-Laminate Tweeter replacement is available for your speakers.

You will also get a sonic improvement by replacing your electrolytic caps and resistors with film caps and a new set of resistors. For the caps, Sonic Caps and Clarity Caps are the favored caps for Polk Speakers. The resistor replacements that are highly favored are Mills, Mundorf MR, and Duelund - being the most expensive of the three.

The tweeter and cap/resistor replacements can be performed at different times.

michael1947

Thanks, Mike

tophatjohnny

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

Dont wait. The sooner the better. The tweeter upgrade alone will have amazing benfits right out of the box and will take less than 30 minutes to complete!

I think I will have to wait if I want to do the 198 tweets. That also requires some upgrading on the crossovers....again I think?? I will get it done in time here! Promise that!

PolkMaster1

tophatjohnny wrote: »

I think I will have to wait if I want to do the 198 tweets. That also requires some upgrading on the crossovers....again I think?? I will get it done in time here! Promise that!

Call Polks customer service to see if it is a drop-in replacement or if if the RD0 upgrade requires some work. If it does require work, it is usually minor and requires a resistor to be added somewhere in the crossover section.

My tweeter upgrade was a drop-in replacement. However, that did not stop me from upgrading my crossovers.

PolkieMan

Yes crossovers need upgrading which you should do anyway if you still have the original crossovers in the old 20 year old speakers. This is whether you can TL your model SDA speaker or not.
"Ordered RDO198s and a couple of 5.6uf Clarity Caps"

You might as well get the custom boards from Gimpod do it right.
Not only is these boards much better than the stock ones but the larger size (the new caps are much larger)
will allow you to easily do this yourself. Their are only certain SDA models that can accept the TL modification.
They are SDA CRS + and 2B http://gimpod.com/parts2b.html.
But the ones that can't, like the SDA 1C
can at least be upgraded with the RDO-194 tweeter which is the replacement for the SL-2000.
This is one of the new boards for my 2.3tls

tophatjohnny wrote: »

I think I will have to wait if I want to do the 198 tweets. That also requires some upgrading on the crossovers....again I think?? I will get it done in time here! Promise that!

PolkMaster1

PolkieMan -

Are you going to replace your LF inductors with Solen Equivalents? It may be worthwhile for you to look into. It should not cost much.

Schurkey

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

TL means Tri-Laminate which is specific to the tweeters. TLs are replacement tweeters for certian speakers. The improvement they offer is well worth the investment.

You may want to contact Polks customer service to see if a Tri-Laminate Tweeter replacement is available for your speakers.

I'd be surprised if Polk CS would know about putting 198s into SDA 1Bs or SRS 2 blade/blade speakers. Are the new tweeters actually tri-laminate? I assumed that they were not, they were just a modern random technology that happened to work better and was a suitable upgrade from the "genuine" SL3000 tri-laminate tweeter that gave the last-generation of SDA speakers the TL part of their model name--SRS 1.2TL, 2.3TL, 3.1TL.

"Everyone" says the 198 is a better driver than the SL3000; the Chinese origin has always scared me. I've never heard a 3000 to compare to--I've just trusted the folks here.

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

The tweeter and cap/resistor replacements can be performed at different times.

tophatjohnny wrote: »

I think I will have to wait if I want to do the 198 tweets. That also requires some upgrading on the crossovers....again I think?? I will get it done in time here! Promise that!

The 198 tweeters into 1Bs requires the replacement of a 4.4uF cap with a 5.8uF cap. Might as well do the whole board at that time.

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

Call Polks customer service to see if it is a drop-in replacement or if if the RD0 upgrade requires some work. If it does require work, it is usually minor and requires a resistor to be added somewhere in the crossover section.

The 194 is a drop-in. The 198 requires the capacitor change. No resistor change is essential for the 198 upgrade, although I would recommend it as part of improving the treble/midrange/bass balance.

PolkieMan wrote: »

Yes crossovers need upgrading which you should do anyway if you still have the original crossovers in the old 20 year old speakers. This is whether you can TL your model SDA speaker or not.
"Ordered RDO198s and a couple of 5.6uf Clarity Caps"

Yup. A 5.6uF cap is close enough to the recommended 5.8uF to be suitable. 5.8uF caps are tough to get. My speakers have 5.9uF due to parts availability.

PolkieMan wrote: »

You might as well get the custom boards from Gimpod do it right.
Not only is these boards much better than the stock ones but the larger size (the new caps are much larger)
will allow you to easily do this yourself. Their are only certain SDA models that can accept the TL modification.
They are SDA CRS + and 2B

Gimpod's boards supposedly don't work in an SDA 1B or SRS 2 B/B. However, each of those speakers can accept the SL3000/RD0-198 tweeter if the capacitor is changed on the high-frequency circuit board.

I suspect, but do not know, that Gimpod's boards can be "coerced" into a 1B if suitable components are installed on the boards; and if a mounting arrangement can be made in place of the two round circuit boards originally used.

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

PolkieMan -

Are you going to replace your LF inductors with Solen Equivalents? It may be worthwhile for you to look into. It should not cost much.

I am in the process of playing inductor games with the 9.6mH SDA inductors on my 1B. It has not gone well so far. Stay tuned.

PolkMaster1

Schurkey wrote: »

"Everyone" says the 198 is a better driver than the SL3000; the Chinese origin has always scared me. I've never heard a 3000 to compare to--I've just trusted the folks here.

I have done the RD0 tweeter replacement, and I find that the RD0 sounds better compared to the original SL Tweeters.

Schurkey wrote: »

The 198 tweeters into 1Bs requires the replacement of a 4.4uF cap with a 5.8uF cap. Might as well do the whole board at that time.

Thanks for the clarification Schurkey. I was under the impression that for some modifications to TLs required a resistor drop in along the way.

Schurkey wrote: »

I am in the process of playing inductor games with the 9.6mH SDA inductors on my 1B. It has not gone well so far. Stay tuned.

Good luck with this endeavor Schurkey.

Check out the Solen web page for your LF Inductors for your PR and LF Inductors. They are highly recommended for the SRS Series - hopefully it translates to the speakers you are applying it to. Try to find inductors that have the same (or as close as possible) DCR and mH values as the original inductors.

Jantzen came in highly recommened for the HF inductors. A good HF inductor replacement could be harder to find. Use the same rules mentioned above when searching HF inductors.

F1nut

Ther's so much wrong/bad info in this thread that the entire thread should be ignored, if not deleted.

Schurkey

F1nut wrote: »

Ther's so much wrong/bad info in this thread that the entire thread should be ignored, if not deleted.

I'm just thrilled to pieces that the long-neglected 1B is finally getting some attention. True enough, I'm biased as all get-out; they're the ONLY SDAs I've listened to since I drove 600 miles round-trip to buy 'em new in '86 or '87. The Frozen Wastelands is not a hotbed of audiophallic energy--I'm the only person I know in this town who cares about audio, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

A friend of a friend has a pair of SDA SRS 1.2 or 1.2TLs in the town I bought my speakers in, but they've never blessed my ears, and I've never met the man...yet.

I'd just prefer that you pointed out the wrong/bad info rather than suggesting the thread go away.

bigaltx24

I used the Clarity Cap PX.

PolkieMan

I have kicked it around but it will be after "tax time" is over. Did you do it on yours?

PolkMaster1 wrote: »

PolkieMan -

Are you going to replace your LF inductors with Solen Equivalents? It may be worthwhile for you to look into. It should not cost much.

PolkieMan

I think I'm the only member in the Houston area.
The Sda Handbook is truly far superior to anything I can tell you in a short post and I would recommend that everyone reads it from front to back.

vr3mods.com/uploads/SDA_Handbook_2011_Rev2.pdf

I will say that Tony (Gimpod) helped me a lot with the crossover upgrade and he too along with his website is a wealth of knowledge.

Schurkey wrote: »

I'm just thrilled to pieces that the long-neglected 1B is finally getting some attention. True enough, I'm biased as all get-out; they're the ONLY SDAs I've listened to since I drove 600 miles round-trip to buy 'em new in '86 or '87. The Frozen Wastelands is not a hotbed of audiophallic energy--I'm the only person I know in this town who cares about audio, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

A friend of a friend has a pair of SDA SRS 1.2 or 1.2TLs in the town I bought my speakers in, but they've never blessed my ears, and I've never met the man...yet.

I'd just prefer that you pointed out the wrong/bad info rather than suggesting the thread go away.

F1nut

I'd just prefer that you pointed out the wrong/bad info rather than suggesting the thread go away.

Ok.

TL means Tri-Laminate which is specific to the tweeters.

That is correct to a point. The TL models also have a number of differences/improvements other than the tweeters.

TLs are replacement tweeters for certian speakers.

That is wrong. The last version of the SDA's (1.2TL, 3.2TL, 3.1TL) and RTA 15TL used the SL3000 tweeter, which was a tri-laminate design. Hence, the TL moniker added to end of the model number. The current replacement tweeters are either the RD0194-1 (SL2000 replacement) or the RD0198-1 (SL3000/SL2500 replacement). Near the end of SDA production Polk was going to release the 4.1TL, which would have been the CRS+ with the SL3000 instead of the SL2000. SDA production ended before they hit the market (although it's thought a few may have escaped). Anyway, it was discovered that the CRS+/4.1TL crossover is exactly the same as the 2B's, so some of us upgraded the 2B's to use the RD0198-1 tweeter and called the speaker the 2BTL. Those two models are the ONLY SDA's that can be upgraded to TL's.

I know a few here decided that they could drop a RD0198-1 into the SRS 2 (blade/blade version) and the 1B's by simply changing a cap. Well, I don't think so. What they seem to have forgotten is the overall balance of the design Polk engineered. I have seen where the top tweeter was changed to the RD0198-1 (with a cap change) and the bottom tweeter was either left as the original SL2000 or changed to the RD0194-1 or changed to the RD0198-1 without any other change to the crossover. A study of the SDA schematics and common logic dictate that a change in the circuit for the bottom tweeter is required as well. In addition, they make no allowance for the very different mid-drivers/shunt circuit used in those 2 models verses the actual models that can use the RD0198-1 tweeter.

The improvement they [tweeters] offer is well worth the investment.

Agreed, as long as the appropriate tweeter is used.

You may want to contact Polks customer service to see if a Tri-Laminate Tweeter replacement is available for your speakers.

Again, there are no tri-laminate tweeters available. Only the RD0194-1 and RD0198-1, which are rubberized silk domes.

tophatjohnny

F1nut wrote: »

Ok.



That is correct to a point. The TL models also have a number of differences/improvements other than the tweeters.



That is wrong. The last version of the SDA's (1.2TL, 3.2TL, 3.1TL) and RTA 15TL used the SL3000 tweeter, which was a tri-laminate design. Hence, the TL moniker added to end of the model number. The current replacement tweeters are either the RD0194-1 (SL2000 replacement) or the RD0198-1 (SL3000/SL2500 replacement). Near the end of SDA production Polk was going to release the 4.1TL, which would have been the CRS+ with the SL3000 instead of the SL2000. SDA production ended before they hit the market (although it's thought a few may have escaped). Anyway, it was discovered that the CRS+/4.1TL crossover is exactly the same as the 2B's, so some of us upgraded the 2B's to use the RD0198-1 tweeter and called the speaker the 2BTL. Those two models are the ONLY SDA's that can be upgraded to TL's.

I know a few here decided that they could drop a RD0198-1 into the SRS 2 (blade/blade version) and the 1B's by simply changing a cap. Well, I don't think so. What they seem to have forgotten is the overall balance of the design Polk engineered. I have seen where the top tweeter was changed to the RD0198-1 (with a cap change) and the bottom tweeter was either left as the original SL2000 or changed to the RD0194-1 or changed to the RD0198-1 without any other change to the crossover. A study of the SDA schematics and common logic dictate that a change in the circuit for the bottom tweeter is required as well. In addition, they make no allowance for the very different mid-drivers/shunt circuit used in those 2 models verses the actual models that can use the RD0198-1 tweeter.



Agreed, as long as the appropriate tweeter is used.



Again, there are no tri-laminate tweeters available. Only the RD0194-1 and RD0198-1, which are rubberized silk domes.

F1nut...that's who I believe....flat out knows his stuff!!! Anything else...I can't hear it!!

PolkMaster1

F1nut wrote: »

Ok.



That is correct to a point. The TL models also have a number of differences/improvements other than the tweeters.



That is wrong. The last version of the SDA's (1.2TL, 3.2TL, 3.1TL) and RTA 15TL used the SL3000 tweeter, which was a tri-laminate design. Hence, the TL moniker added to end of the model number. The current replacement tweeters are either the RD0194-1 (SL2000 replacement) or the RD0198-1 (SL3000/SL2500 replacement). Near the end of SDA production Polk was going to release the 4.1TL, which would have been the CRS+ with the SL3000 instead of the SL2000. SDA production ended before they hit the market (although it's thought a few may have escaped). Anyway, it was discovered that the CRS+/4.1TL crossover is exactly the same as the 2B's, so some of us upgraded the 2B's to use the RD0198-1 tweeter and called the speaker the 2BTL. Those two models are the ONLY SDA's that can be upgraded to TL's.

I know a few here decided that they could drop a RD0198-1 into the SRS 2 (blade/blade version) and the 1B's by simply changing a cap. Well, I don't think so. What they seem to have forgotten is the overall balance of the design Polk engineered. I have seen where the top tweeter was changed to the RD0198-1 (with a cap change) and the bottom tweeter was either left as the original SL2000 or changed to the RD0194-1 or changed to the RD0198-1 without any other change to the crossover. A study of the SDA schematics and common logic dictate that a change in the circuit for the bottom tweeter is required as well. In addition, they make no allowance for the very different mid-drivers/shunt circuit used in those 2 models verses the actual models that can use the RD0198-1 tweeter.



Agreed, as long as the appropriate tweeter is used.



Again, there are no tri-laminate tweeters available. Only the RD0194-1 and RD0198-1, which are rubberized silk domes.

I find this response to be informative and a well worthy read.

PolkMaster1

PolkieMan wrote: »

I have kicked it around but it will be after "tax time" is over. Did you do it on yours?

Yes, I did it to mine. I noticed a bit of improvement on my 1.2TLs - YMMV.

Let me just qualify my statement to say that IF you decide to upgrade the inductors on your crossover board, it should not cost much. (The massive sized inductor that I replaced on my 1.2TL cost a few hundred $$$.) Unfortunately, I am not aware of any SDA (non-SRS) member mentioning that they upgraded their inductors on their SDA line.

If you should decide to go that route, you may want to purchase Gimpods crossover board which will make the job much easier than if you were to try to upgrade the inductors on the stock crossover. Gimpods boards allows to have a better layout of the components used on your crossover.

You may want to seek advice from other members who have SDA speakers and used Gimpods boards as the SDA line (non-SRS) might present a challenge when trying to mount the crossover boards in your SDA speaker.

nspindel

I did all the inductors on my 4.1TL's. I used Jantzens for the three small ones on the board and a Solen for the 16mH. Can't really say with authority what a difference they made, because I bought the speakers already disassembled, and I did all the upgrades at once - tweeters, caps, resistors, inductors, rings, armacell, etc. But the speakers sound absolutely outstanding.

PolkMaster1

nspindel wrote: »

I did all the inductors on my 4.1TL's. I used Jantzens for the three small ones on the board and a Solen for the 16mH. Can't really say with authority what a difference they made, because I bought the speakers already disassembled, and I did all the upgrades at once - tweeters, caps, resistors, inductors, rings, armacell, etc. But the speakers sound absolutely outstanding.

Add Dynamat Extreme on the metal baskets on the back of your speakers. Great set of upgrades you did!!!!

nspindel

Ah yes, did that too, forgot to mention. Plus the Sonic Barrier inside the cabs. Plus binding posts and veneer! But on point, the Jantzen inductors on the 2B/CRS+ are a slam dunk because they have off the shelf parts that are like for like replacements, without touching the windings.

DarqueKnight

F1nut wrote: »

I know a few here decided that they could drop a RD0198-1 into the SRS 2 (blade/blade version) and the 1B's by simply changing a cap. Well, I don't think so.

Just be glad that this thread is not about replacing the passive radiator with an active woofer or replacing the dome tweeters with ribbons or horns

NEHBRNUSENTS

Thanks F1nut for your info/knowledge. I have a pair of SRS3.1TL's and am currently listening to a pair of 2.3TL's with the silver style dome tweeters that are tri-laminate. I like the sound(love) of the SRS speakers but I keep frying up these(SL3000) tweeters when in a long high volume listening time. I have replaced the single tweeters on the 3.1's with the rubberized/silk style you have explained that was available and they do seem more durable at the high volume levels. I am looking for a a knowledgeable person to give me advice to make these speakers last longer as I am thinking about purchasing the bigger 2.3's and you sound like that person. What upgrades do you recommend before I replace all 6 of the 2.3's tweeters? Would that also apply to the 3.1's? Do the upgrades tlaked about in this forum make sense to you? I appreciate any advise you would recommend.

Funny thing......I have had your quote posted on my office wall for years...

Schurkey

NEHBRNUSENTS wrote: »

I have a pair of SRS3.1TL's and am currently listening to a pair of 2.3TL's with the silver style dome tweeters that are tri-laminate. I like the sound(love) of the SRS speakers but I keep frying up these(SL3000) tweeters when in a long high volume listening time. I have replaced the single tweeters on the 3.1's with the rubberized/silk style you have explained that was available and they do seem more durable at the high volume levels. I am looking for a a knowledgeable person to give me advice to make these speakers last longer as I am thinking about purchasing the bigger 2.3's and you sound like that person. What upgrades do you recommend before I replace all 6 of the 2.3's tweeters? Would that also apply to the 3.1's? Do the upgrades tlaked about in this forum make sense to you? I appreciate any advise you would recommend.

I'm not F1, but my first guess is that your problem is not the tweeters, it's your amplifier. I bet it's clipping at higher volume levels, and sending all sorts of distortion to the tweets, over-burdening them.

More CLEAN power, and your tweeter problems vanish. Probably sound better, too.

What are you powering your speakers with? It IS common-ground...right? For that matter, what are you powering the amp with? I know of a guy who tried to run multiple Hafler amps and dual powered subwoofers into his home theatre, when his house only had 60 amp electrical service.

nspindel

Ditto. As much as we all prefer to pull them when we rebuild crossovers, there was a valid reason why Polk had the polyswitches in the circuit. To protect the tweeters against naughty amps!

Schurkey

nspindel wrote: »

Ditto. As much as we all prefer to pull them when we rebuild crossovers, there was a valid reason why Polk had the polyswitches in the circuit. To protect the tweeters against naughty amps!

3.1s don't have polyswitches.

"Naughty amps!" THAT'S funny.