Pio Elite vs Oppo BD players
Comments
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actually, a lot of the weight is due to the heavy aluminum chassis that Pioneer uses. I am currently comparing the Pioneer BDP09FD and an Oppo BDP83SE... They are amazingly close but I still give the edge to the Oppo. It has a bit better depth and width with tighter bass. The Oppo supports SACD, is faster and it appeard to be more reliable.
On AVS Forums, there are an increasing number of posts from users with failing optical drives. The bummer is that the drive has to be replaced by Pioneer as the player must be programmed when the drive is replaced. The drives cost about $360+ and seems to be in short supply.
The Oppo won a lot of awards and the Pioneer did not. All those reviewers could not have been wrong. Mind you, the BDP83SE has better DACs and power supply that the standard BDP83 had. Don't get me wrong, I like Pioneer players, it's just that the Oppo has surprised me with its capabilities. -
I'm currently on the fence between an Oppo 103 and 105 ($700 can buy a lot of other toys!). Video should be the same between the two units, and audio via HDMI will be the same to my Pioneer Elite receiver. I'm guessing I'll get better sound from movies using the auto calibration and room correction features of the Pioneer, rather than using the analog outputs and Oppo's DAC. Opinions on that?
The only major differences I can come up with are:
1) Superior DAC on the 105 (but only when using analog outputs), including dedicated 2-channel (RCA/XLR) outputs.
I could use the L/R of the 7.1 outputs on the 103 to go to my tube pre-amp, so I really don't need the dedicated stereo outputs of the 105... but of course that excludes the 105's improved DAC. Most SACDs/DVD-Audio are in surround though, so I'd probably want to output DSD over HDMI to my Pioneer Elite most of the time anyway, right?
2) Headphone amp
I don't care about this, I want to listen to my SDAs! :cheesygrin:
3) USB DAC input
Could be handy, but I really don't need it right now...
So really I think it comes down to CD playback over analog. Is the CD playback from the 105 that much more superior to the 103? Has anyone demo'd the 103 and 105 to compare the analog output sound? -
If the difference is about the same as the 93/95, there is a noticeable difference. The differences can be subdued by the playback system. The more revealing the system, the bigger the difference.
How important that difference can only be decided by you. -
If the difference is about the same as the 93/95, there is a noticeable difference. The differences can be subdued by the playback system. The more revealing the system, the bigger the difference.
How important that difference can only be decided by you.
This^^^ also I would bet you would be pleased with it for years to come. I own the 95 and the 105 knowing I was keeping the 95 as well.
My plan was to put the 105 in my HT system and put the 95 in the bedroom. But I can't seem to pull the 105 out of my SDA 2 channel rig..:cheesygrin:
So now I find myself wanting a 93 or 103 for the bedroom..:redface:
Alan these players are that good... -
I have one of the original Oppo DVD players and have been extremely pleased with it, so the 103/105 is at the top of my list for this purchase. I'm just on the fence about $500 vs. $1200. I could put that $700 towards a bunch of RDO-194's that I still need to purchase as well. Decisions, decisions....
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"If you are thinking about Sony players, you should wait for the new models releasing next month."
Jon s - what are the new Sony's going to have that make it worthwhile to wait???Parasound HCA-2003A & 2205A
Front: Rti12's
Center: Csi A6
Side surrounds: Polk Rti A1's
Atmos: Mirage Nanosats
APC H15
Power cords by Pepster, Morrow MA4 IC's, AQ Midnight, AQ Chocolate HDMI's[/SIZE]
The rest is TBD. -
"If you are thinking about Sony players, you should wait for the new models releasing next month."
Jon s - what are the new Sony's going to have that make it worthwhile to wait???
Ditto that. But thanks for the comments made earlier about the sound and image quality on the 590... It looks like a $100 Sony is in my future. Whether it be the current or upcoming model.5.1 theater - Pioneer SC-07, Mirage OMD-CC center, 4 x Mirage Omnisats, Boston Acoustics VPS-210 sub
2.1 living room - NAD 7400 integrated, 2 x Platinum Audio Duos, MIT Terminator4 cables
2.1 bedroom- Arcam Solo, 2 x Mirage OMD-5's
FOR SALE - Genesis Servo-10 sub, Genesis Servo-12 amp; Martin Logan Dynamo sub; Mirage MM-6 sub; Harman Kardon DPR-1001 7.1 receiver -
You wouldn't be disappoointed with the 590. Part of me wants to upgrade to a high end BD player but really, the only reason for me would be to add functionality my Pioneer Elite DV-47ai has for SACDs. Otherwise, the 590 has given me everything I have needed in a BD player.
That's not to say I would not take an Oppo 103 or 105 in a heartbeat if I had the extra scratch...hehe"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Jon s - what are the new Sony's going to have that make it worthwhile to wait???
I am not saying that the new models are better, just that they are coming out soon. If they are better then wait. if not, buy the older models. The only thing I can see is that the new models aresupposed to have better WiFi range (they took out the second antenna in the x80/x90 models which reduced their range. the x70 models had a noticeable longer reception range)
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One big advantage I see with the Oppo line is they still offer Analog outputs for 7.1 channels so they can be used with older receivers such as my Denon AVR-3802.
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Old thread but I'm happy I ignored the advice here. It seems "Mantis" got a defective 53fd as I bought one used but very much like new for "a price too low to mention" as Amazon says
They got such a bad rap that they didn't sell well. Because of this their street price and a firmware update is making them worth another hard look.
The firmware update addressed many of the issues it had initially. It does everything but gapless HDD playback but I just spin a disc for those rare recordings that really require it. The Oppo 95 doesn't do gapless either but the 105 does now, for North of $1100. If you have the cash go for it.
I've listened to and watched an Oppo 95 at a friend's place and while great, I honestly just don't hear or see much difference in sound or picture quality over the Pio 53fd...yes the 95 is better built/heavier than the Pio but I think a lot of that has to do with the multi-analog out board/transformer.
53fd does DSD direct to analog (two channel) through a great AKM 4480 DAC, has a Marvell QDeo video chip and IMO looks and sounds fantastic. Pioneer should be ashamed of the plastic remote but it gets the job done if you don't use a universal or a phone app remote. The unit has all the functions of the Oppo players with a few infrequent glitches I find pretty easy to live with.
The one problem that seems to bug people the most is occasional freezing/unresponsiveness. While the update fixed this somewhat, it still happens from time to time. The glitch is not unique to Pioneer BluRay players and my solution is to plug it into a small surge strip mounted on the audio stand. I use it to power the player on/off so it resets every time and voila, no more freezing. There is no real need to do it every time but it's just as easy to push a button on the power strip as on the player. A lot easier than plugging/unplugging the unit, something required of many BDPs from time to time. With so many functions they're a bit like computers that should be hard reset at least once in awhile.
If this player lasts two years I'll feel I got my money's worth (approx. the tax I'd pay on an Oppo 105). I'd buy another one for more money if I can find one when needed. Not $500 but they nearly always sell for far less.
BTW, I don't think/believe these units are made by Sharp as previous players were. It's too bad the 53fd got such negative reviews on release as I find it to be a great player that tripped coming out of the gate.
I haven't regretted this purchase for a minute but if it dies prematurely I'll edit my comments to reflect that. I hope it lasts as I'm a die-hard Pio fan who admittedly does wish/hope they'd up their game to the quality standard of older Elite products. It's unlikely, but we can dream. -
Hellenback,
You need to do a search for all of Mantis' reviews on Elite gear over the dozens of years that he has been on this forum. There is no bigger Fanboy of the Elite Plasmas, BDPs, and receivers over the years, but he is also the first to call them out when quality, construction, and performance has been declining in the past 3-4 years. He hates what Pioneer has done for the line and has a fondness for the days of when Elite actually meant elite......HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
I'm gonna assume you didn't read my thread on the 53 did you?Hellenback wrote: »Old thread but I'm happy I ignored the advice here. It seems "Mantis" got a defective 53fd as I bought one used but very much like new for "a price too low to mention" as Amazon says They got such a bad rap that they didn't sell well. Because of this their street price and a firmware update is making them worth another hard look.
The firmware update addressed many of the issues it had initially. It does everything but gapless HDD playback but I just spin a disc for those rare recordings that really require it. The Oppo 95 doesn't do gapless either but the 105 does now, for North of $1100. If you have the cash go for it.
I've listened to and watched an Oppo 95 at a friend's place and while great, I honestly just don't hear or see much difference in sound or picture quality over the Pio 53fd...yes the 95 is better built/heavier than the Pio but I think a lot of that has to do with the multi-analog out board/transformer.
53fd does DSD direct to analog (two channel) through a great AKM 4480 DAC, has a Marvell QDeo video chip and IMO looks and sounds fantastic. Pioneer should be ashamed of the plastic remote but it gets the job done if you don't use a universal or a phone app remote. The unit has all the functions of the Oppo players with a few infrequent glitches I find pretty easy to live with.
The one problem that seems to bug people the most is occasional freezing/unresponsiveness. While the update fixed this somewhat, it still happens from time to time. The glitch is not unique to Pioneer BluRay players and my solution is to plug it into a small surge strip mounted on the audio stand. I use it to power the player on/off so it resets every time and voila, no more freezing. There is no real need to do it every time but it's just as easy to push a button on the power strip as on the player. A lot easier than plugging/unplugging the unit, something required of many BDPs from time to time. With so many functions they're a bit like computers that should be hard reset at least once in awhile.
If this player lasts two years I'll feel I got my money's worth (approx. the tax I'd pay on an Oppo 105). I'd buy another one for more money if I can find one when needed. Not $500 but they nearly always sell for far less.
BTW, I don't think/believe these units are made by Sharp as previous players were. It's too bad the 53fd got such negative reviews on release as I find it to be a great player that tripped coming out of the gate.
I haven't regretted this purchase for a minute but if it dies prematurely I'll edit my comments to reflect that. I hope it lasts as I'm a die-hard Pio fan who admittedly does wish/hope they'd up their game to the quality standard of older Elite products. It's unlikely, but we can dream.
Allow me to revisit a few things with the 53.
1) The player would lock up from time to time playing movies. This sucks ****
2) The player would not certain SACD's for no reason.
3) The player didn't last a weekend before it fully failed.
ALSO,
I have Installed many 53 players as well as 52's and they ALL failed and had to be replaced and or repaired. Pioneer Elite was the best of the best years ago and honestly man they have fallen from grace. Only their AVR's are still Superior and are worthy of the Elite Badge. They don't sport the Gloss finish anymore and that still bothers me.
Now I also own a Cambridge Audio 650BD Azur which has been fantastic. Recently I pickup up a Pioneer Elite BD62-FD after a good friend of mine has had one for 5 months with no issues. He also swears by the video quality being Fantastic. He also sports Kuro TV's , he's got 2 of them ( lucky **** )
So I have been rocking mine for about I'd say 2 months now. I have not posted anything about it yet as I'm waiting for it to self destruct. I have had only 1 failure with it so far and a reboot cleared the issue. I tried to play The Avengers and the player locked up. I didn't even get mad as I have been expecting that to happen as I have NO faith anymore in Pioneer Players.
Good luck with yours, Oppo and Cambridge are the only 2 brands that are rock solid on the market today. I have yet to see another brand that has had as much success. Paying more for a Blu ray player thats going to get a lot of use is worth it to me. I would absolutely buuy a Oppo or even a new Cambridge. Nothing I have seen is even worth my time sorry to say.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
since 2010 when they came out, I've been using my Elite BDP-31FD. This is one of the older ones and I have better picture quality than on my new Samsung UBD 8500 4k!! They are really well made and use the best components, which is why they are so expensive. I also have an Elite Plasma (08) and a VSX90 Elite receiver. I guess I love their work
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I liked my older pioneer elite BDP-05 and bdp51 but there new stuff is made by sharp and I personally wouldn't touch it. I own the oppo 103 and its a much better all around player than any Pioneer I've owned. Super quick, outstanding DVD up converting, plays everything and has HDMI inputs. Guess it all depends on which pioneer elite you're referring to. Everything about the Oppo is better.
If price is a factor the Sony BDP 790 is outstanding and half the price of the oppo and its better than the Elites.
No, Sharp made their TV's, which they don't anymore. Pioneer Elite still makes BD players and AV receivers in SoCal
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I still have my Elite BDP-09FD and won't be getting rid of it anytime in the near future.
It is awesome. That's why it cost $2200 new.
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I also own a bdp-09fd. It is a beautifully designed disc player, but I was disappointed when it got outperformed by an Oppo that cost a quarter of its' price.
You know claiming something outperforms something else without providing any details doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with most people.
Care to elaborate? Does the Oppo have a better picture? Sound better? What is so night and day better in your opinion?
We all know the Oppo has some nuances that the older BDP-09FD doesn't, like the ability to play SACDs, but what do you think is so much better with the Oppo?
One thing I think everyone knows about the Pioneer is that is a little slow to load but the picture is beautiful and so is the sound and the build quality is superior to the Oppo.
Don't get me wrong though. I like the Oppos too and may end up buying one here someday but as long as the BDP-09FD and my SC-09TX (which are matched components) continue to perform like they have for me, I don't think I would really consider ditching them. -
I have the Pioneer Elite BDP-88 and it is built like a tank (30lbs) compared to my Oppo 105D (18lbs). The Pioneer user interface is very mediocre but has what it needs to. Loading time on the Pioneer might be a bit slower. Overall I like the Pioneer a bit better than the Oppo for both picture quality and sound. I am using all Pioneer in the setup which makes it convenient as well (SC-99/SC-09TX/BDP-88).2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
I installed a few of them and yes they are tanks. 4k is glitchy and I hate anything that is glitchy . I'm not sure I want to pick one up but I really liked it otherwise.I have the Pioneer Elite BDP-88 and it is built like a tank (30lbs) compared to my Oppo 105D (18lbs). The Pioneer user interface is very mediocre but has what it needs to. Loading time on the Pioneer might be a bit slower. Overall I like the Pioneer a bit better than the Oppo for both picture quality and sound. I am using all Pioneer in the setup which makes it convenient as well (SC-99/SC-09TX/BDP-88).
I have had my Pioneer Elite BDP-62FD since the above post I made years ago. I have not used this player all that much over the years and yesterday it started acting up. Not that it hasn't acted up over the years as it has. I think when it works it works awesome but it's un realible.
I have TOTAL CONTROL as my control system and I control the ELITE blu ray player IP. Yeah I also have IR on it as back up as it likes to fall off the network and not Work from time to time.
Pioneer Elite players as I said years ago I'll say it again are not as good as they use to. Actually most Blu ray players sold for the years few years are mostly all junk trash crap. I want to burn them all in a huge hole in the ground.
I also believe it's most of YOU are the reason why these players are so damn crappy. People don't want to pay good money for a quality player so all these companies cut corners and release sub par throw away crappy trash. Even Pioneer and Sony who made some of the best DVD players in the business are junk trash now and I hate it more then anything.
With Streaming most people don't even care anymore. They get a Roku and Apple TV and they just stream all their movies. For Music they use Sonos and stream with music services. So CD's SACD's DVD AUDIO disc's are becoming a huge thing of the past.
Some of US still like to drop a DISC in from time to time and enjoy the quality over quantity. I'm all for High Rez music and HD streaming movies but that doesn't mean I don't still want a killer Disc Player in my system,
I may just buy an Oppo as my next player as I'm not trusting the Pioneer Elite Players as nice and as much as I would like one. I will throw it out the window the first sign of trouble and be pissed. So I'm gonna avoid that and get an Oppo. I don't read many people having tons of issues with their players.
I sold my Cambridge Audio Blu ray player years ago, that was a HUGE mistake.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I am still using a Panasonic Plasma ZT60 so no 4K for me. The BDP-88 is used strictly for discs and some media on USB. This setup is 98% HT so I don't really know how it would be musically. Luckily I have an Oppo 105 I am using in my 2 channel setup so I can always shuffle them around if I want to try it out. I also had a Cambridge Audio 752BD and enjoyed that as well. Personally I think it was better musically than the Oppo. The only reason I parted with it was I had too many players at the time and I was able to use it towards a significant trade in on my PS Audio P5. Got more for it in trade in that I ever could have sold it for.2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
I agree that Pioneer Elite is not as "Elite" as it used to be, but it's still respectable. 2010 was the last year for a true high end "Flagship" line and that was the BDP-09FD and the SC-09TX which were Pioneer's greatest efforts in home audio IMO.
Unfortunately, in 2010 the world was still in the throes of a depression the likes of which we had never seen before in our lifetimes and the market for $7,000 AVRs and $2,200 BluRay players just wasn't there for most people.
It's a shame really. Pioneer wasn't profitable making extremely expensive audio equipment. The same goes for Polk Audio. Polk didn't get rich selling stuff like the SRTs. They are now focused on making stuff geared more towards the masses.
But Pioneer Elite and Polk Audio still offer some respectable equipment.
I still love my SC-09TX and BDP-09FD. There's not much out there in the way of AVRs or BluRay players that I'd rather have. I never did give a rat's azz about 3D. 3D is a joke. 4k is nice but I'll wait for that to really become the norm before I make my next upgrade. Then I may spring for an Oppo but I'll probably still hold onto my Pioneer. It's a keeper.
