In need of direction -I love my friends setup-but I can't blow that much money-

c_corie

I've been through Bose(901/201)/Polk(Monitor 10/11)/older B&W 604s3/Mirage Omni 350-and never been thrilled.

My friend is running the setup as follows (not positive of exact components-like cables and upgrades done to record player.)

He is running a Rega P3? with tons of upgrades, belts? center weight? upgraded platter, and probably more, into a Red Wine phono pre, into a modded Cayin (similar to Primaluna) running KT88 into nice ALO? cables into B&W CM9 and a older 600 series 12 inch sub. And it sounds epic.

I'm wondering which part of the setup is the most important after the speakers...is it the vinyl or the tubes, or vinyl AND the tubes. I know he's spent over $10,000 setting it up, and it's totally great, but I can't bring myself to spend that much.

Any suggestions as to speakers/amps/dacs or should I go analog all the way and move over to records? Let's say I'm starting from nothing and trying to keep the initial purchase around $3000-with ability to upgrade different parts later.

tonyb

I'll give ya one suggestion as your question will get a million different combo's in reply. Speakers, I'd look at older Legecy series like a signature 3, a Yaqin or Dared pre amp, a million dacs to look at too. Arcam, Musical fidelity, Burson, Cambridge, Audio-gd, Grant Fidelity, Benchmark, Peachtree, and a cast of hundreds more. Depends on the sound characteristics your looking for, buy used and try and keep the dac price around the 500 mark for budget purposes. Amps, I like B&k, Belles, McCormack, Butler, Bat, for their musicality.The entry level Project turntables like the Carbon is a sweet deal too at around 400 bucks. Some pre amps will have a build in phono pre but if they don't individual phono pre's can be had for a couple hundred. Cables, to stay in budget try Signal cable, or a few here make cables that sound pretty good for not alot of coin.

You could also look at a tubed integraded from Yaqin or Dared, your buck may go further by combining the tube pre and amplification. Used will save you alot of coin in any of this. Too many variables on gear, and not knowing your sound preference, you'll get a million suggestions. Key is to buy used for the bigger ticket items like the pre/amp/dac. You might pull off new on that budget for the gear but speakers would have to be used. Look for items that perform well above their price point like some of the the brands I mentioned.

In our own Flea Market, there's a Yaqin pre with phono, for 300 bones with extra tubes. A good starter unit and you kill 2 birds with one stone. There's also a cambridge dac for 200.

naturallight

There is really not enough info to give you any answer on this. Is this a strict 2 channel stereo system?? Or are you going to try and run HT. What is the size of the room you want to run this in (or is it big enough for floorstanding speakers) What media do you have the most of. If it's CD's don't even think about vinyl, as your 3K can go out the door real fast.



Your speakers are a personal choice, so i will not make a recommendation on those, but you need the right power amp. The stock amp you can't go wrong with would be a used Adcom 555. Which would be about 4-500 used. A tube pre amp would be nice. There are alot of choices, but the prices can be all over the place on those. What you should get is a tube CD player. The Jolida is a good choice, but is 1K new, not sure what the used prices are.



Just need some info, before any good recommendation can be made. Plus the speakers will be the determining factor.

doctor r

The P3 with upgrades is a nice TT, but each of the tweaks helps fine tune the sound. Those improvements are only noted within a system that can display them audibly. The core of your system has to work well for the quality of the source to be enjoyed. I personally went with the tube amp/preamp (actually integrated initially) route with my upgraded Monitor7b speakers initially, and was excited about how much more involving the entire system became. ( I was really shocked at how good they sounded with reeltrouble1's VTL MB450s powering them at Polkfest 2011). Most lines of thought go with the source (CDP, DAC, Vinyl) being most important in a system, but you have to have the foundation of the amplifier and speakers working together to allow that source to shine through. The bottom line is as stated many times "everything matters", but I think you may want to try a tube amp or integrated with your present speakers and build from there. I started with my monitor 7s and worked inward (EL34 based monoblock Shanling Amps and a Shanling CDP along with AES Phono pre (all tube based), I then turned around and worked my way back out upgrading each point along the way (used equipment at each acquisition) with my new speakers being my most recent acquisition. This is a process that I have pursued for over 10 years. Now that you have an aural memory (your friends system) you start slowly working your way in that direction. Have patience and find a starting point. Enjoy the journey.

naturallight

You are going to get suggestions, all over the map. Again...Info would help here. The size of the room, is important to know, as some speakers will work, some may not. Plus what type of music do you listen to? and how loud do you like to play it?



I like my SDA 1C's..but there not for everybody. But i also have a large basement music room to play them in.

They don't work very well in a small room. I play mostly classic rock, blues and classical music. Mostly symphonies. But if you like string quartet music...maybe not the speakers you want.



Your speaker choice is going to be critical, based on your room size, the volume you play them at, and the type of music you play. The amps, and everything will have to match well with the speakers. Tubes are great..but you said your budget is 3K for a whole system..so your cutting it close, dependent on your speaker choice.

zingo

Check out the Matrix line of B&W speakers since you like their sound. They are the best value in B&W, and seem to be reasonably available.

steveinaz

I believe a very good system can be built for under $6k. Integrated/CDP/Speakers. $1800-int/$375-cdp/$3500-spkrs=$5675.00.

bmor

For an all digital system within your budget consider this equipment (all at used gear prices).

Cambridge Audio 840A integrated amp ~$900
Cambridge Audio 840C cd player ~$900
PSB Imagine T speakers ~$1200

Good bang for your buck equipment in my mind.

c_corie

Thanks for all the suggestions so far...I'll add more of what I'm thinking of/working with.

It's gonna be a small/medium sized apartment living room that I'd be throwing this in. I'm currently thinking of doing B&W 685 w/ their cheaper stands...and if it's still avail there is a Primaluna from a local dealer that should be like
$2299-Prologue Premium on demo sale for $1500. From there it's either a decent dac/cdp/or record player. Also I do have a older Yamaha CDC735 5 disc changer that does have a digital out, maybe I could use that into a dac? Also I'd much prefer floorstanding speakers but CM8 are a little too much, and I can't find anything under 2K that's "wow."

Also I strongly prefer new/demo deals, not a fan of used stuff-as if an issue develops you could be SOL

steveinaz

Spending a higher percentage on speakers allows you to start enjoying sooner, and later "grow" into them as time goes on. Just my 2 cents. If I had listened to my own advice, I would have saved thousands of dollars, and years of disappointment.

With "careful" research, you can find that occassional gem. My Harbeth's retail at $3650/pr new, I picked up a MINT used pair for $2600 off of audiogon. They are absolutely flawless in appearance and operation. You might re-think your preferences given your limited budget.

c_corie

My theory on the amp as the biggest budget item, is that I'd probably never replace it. I'd swap tubes, maybe upgrade cables and such, but the amp would stay. Also I feel like it'd take less volume to get the 685's "going" then it wouldCM8s.

cnh

Lots of good suggestions above. Blown away? A very "subjective" term. What blows one person away often leaves others shrugging their shoulders. There is NO ONE system everyone will ooh and aah over, IMHO!

That said. First get your ears on as many speakers as you can. Find what drivers sound "best" to you. (B&W, not my cup of tea--not a fan--see what I mean above?) Then think about your amplification, mix and match with your speakers till you get the best possible performance from them. Then sources, sources, sources. Like vinyl? Go ahead and let the vinyl heads take you on a money ride.

Like CDs, SACDs...open up that wallet to tubes or high end DACs or both?

Too many combos, too much stuff out there, to really narrow it down. Some guys on this site change their gear the way I change my underwear, hardly enough time to get used to it before a new pair goes on! lol

cnh

Emlyn

Given your preference for new/demo gear, the size of your listening room in an apartment, that you really liked the sound from your friend's speakers, and you'd consider starting from scratch, I'd recommend this:

B&W CM5 with stands @ around $1800 (less if you can get a deal)
Marantz PM8004 @ around $1000 (less if you can find a demo, but it already has a phono amp built in)

Source:

Either VPI Traveller @ around $1300 (not much chance of dealing on this since it's a high demand new product) with a cartridge and cleaning supplies extra (or a Rega RP3 is in the same price range with a decent cartridge already included)
Or, Marantz SA8004 SACD player/DAC @ $1000 if you don't want to go the vinyl route (free up some money to spend on a tubed integrated amp this way)

I realize you said you prefer floor standing speakers, but sometimes bookshelf speakers in the same line sound just as good if not better than larger speakers in a small room.

As others have said, pick your speakers first as that is probably the main thing you liked about your friend's system. If you listen to the CM5's in a store, you probably aren't going to get as good an impression of their capabilities as you would if you take a pair home to your listening room and try them out there.

c_corie

I have heard the CM5s and like them...but I have a hard time paying for them+stands when the CM8s are almost the same price. Also I am currently (right now lol) listening to that Marantz model into Paradigm Studio 10s + SE-sub. And not a huge fan of both the Paradigms and the Marantz (side note my friend started with the 4000? series Marantz and it wasn't that fantastic into CM9s.)

My fear/issue with the CM8s is that they are an expensive compromise-

bmor

It sounds like you're zeroing in on B&W, I'm assuming that's because you want new/demo and that's what's available locally? Are you willing to pay for shipping on something or do you want to deal locally, in which case your choices are less, and maybe easier, depending on where you live.

Drenis

steveinaz wrote: »

I believe a very good system can be built for under $6k. Integrated/CDP/Speakers. $1800-int/$375-cdp/$3500-spkrs=$5675.00.

Budget for Cables/IC's? Cant forget those!

c_corie

bmor wrote: »

It sounds like you're zeroing in on B&W, I'm assuming that's because you want new/demo and that's what's available locally? Are you willing to pay for shipping on something or do you want to deal locally, in which case your choices are less, and maybe easier, depending on where you live.

I'm thinking B&W because they are readily available and I like the mid/upper mid emphasis.

Today I went back to the audio store, and listen to Paradigm Studio 20s- they sound nice but a big bright and a little thin, but they do seem present a very detailed image. Also heard Legacy Classic HD? sounded scooped and a bit boring but not as harsh as the Paradigms. I then went over my friends house again, and I like his CM9s but I see a few issues...they seem fairly directional, and the sub is helping his setup out a ton...we turned the sub off and it was sad how little bass they produced-to be fair they were many feet out into the room...at least 3-5 from any walls.

So now I'm stuck...I feel like there isn't anything in my budget or even over that I'm crazy about. Also he doesn't have an amazing dac-so that could be part of this-but his system seems to do records much better, and even though they sound a bit thinner they have much more life and air to them.

marvda1

this is everything you need, just add your source.
http://www.stereomojo.com/ODYSSEY%20AUDIO%20SYSTEM%20REVIEW/ODYSSEYAUDIOSYSTEMREVIEW.htm

bmor

I dunno, I haven't heard the B&W's but looking at the specs on them and what they're asking for them, plus what you've said about them, I think you can do better for the money. You may have to look outside your area, be willing to do a little driving. I have all the equipment I mentioned above but I had to drive 2 1/2 hours away to hear the speakers and get the deal I wanted.

If I were you, I'd focus on finding the speakers first then consider a good integrated amp, and stop comparing everything to your friends setup. Find some speakers somewhere you like the sound of, figure out how you can get them in your house at a reasonable cost and then enjoy them. Then you can focus on the next pice of gear.

steveinaz

Drenis wrote: »

Budget for Cables/IC's? Cant forget those!

You can easily fit a respectable set of IC's and speaker wire in for $325.

c_corie

So today I listened to a few more pairs of speakers. Listened to Totem Arros and didn't really enjoy them, they sound wide but very thin just not my style-I wanted to like them, but didn't. I also listen to the SE Paradigm tower, I'm not sure what I thought of it, it sounded a bit harsh I think and that was with a full McIntosh setup...maybe the room was just bad. They also carry Revel there, but didn't have any of their lower end floorstanders. I think the Paradigm studio 60 is seeming better and better, but the price isn't.

So I think I'm down to-for speakers-
B&W CM8, or cheaper 685 and stands
Paradigm SE tower, if I can hear it somewhere else- or Studio 60, MAYBE Studio 20s.
Still wondering about Revel, but the Totem stuff is out, any other ideas of anything else around 2k for speakers?

tonyb

Don't hit on the 685's, you'll be disappointed. Used will get you soo much more speaker for your dollar. Revel makes excellant speakers btw.

If you dig the BW sound, look for an older pair of 7nt's, probably one of the few in their lineup I liked. Since your budget is limited, what your doing by buying new is compromising, which lends itself for you to go too cheap on other items. Spend the most you can on speakers and source. A couple year old units will save you 50% over new and give you better end results.

Here's some 703's

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-b-w-703-towers-703-2012-11-25-speakers-22304

Or your beloved cm9's at almost half price for being 1.5 years old.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-b-w-speakers-cm9-2012-11-11-speakers-80487

c_corie

Also forgot to mention heard the cheaper PSB towers and hated them.

I'm leaning towards the Paradigm SE3 or Studio 60, or CM8. I'm just unsure if the SE3 was just harsh in that room, or just harsh in general.

steveinaz

I'd recommend the Fritz Carbon 7, but I get the feeling you like your treble. C7's are laid back, but have incredible bass for their size.

tonyb

Try Salk or Tyler, more musical with a good presentation and clear treble. For my ears anyway, B&W are too hot on the treble and mids and too lacking in the lower regions. To each his own though. I did like their cdm series and the older 7 or 800 series weren't bad either.

When listening to speakers at a store, pay attention to the associated gear used. Some places are just terrible at powering speakers or matching them up to decent electronics. Theirs tons of good speakers out there aside from the mass marketed brands. Maybe the Kef Q900's ? People around here seem to dig those alot.

Ducati Guy

Like someone else said, pick the speakers you like first, then find an amp that you like that complements the speakers. then you can decide about vinyl or cd/sacd or computer digital.
Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, have you gotten a chance to listen to the Polk Lsi15's. IMHO they're a GEM. I absolutely agree witheverything that very old review of the Lsi15's by Anthony Cordesman back in 2002/2003. Plus they're an absolute steal at $800 on Polk ebay, damm I wish I had gotten mine for so cheap.
Part of the fun is listening to all the different equipment.

cmy330go

Vienna Acoustics perhaps?

c_corie

cmy330go wrote: »

Vienna Acoustics perhaps?

are those sold in the US anymore? I liked those!